Rich Thomas - A Champion for Diversity

Stuart Murray  00:00

This podcast was recorded on the ancestral lands on Treaty 1 territory, the traditional territory of the Anishinaabe, Cree, Oji Cree, Dakota and the Dene peoples and on the homeland of the Métis Nation.

 

Amanda Logan (Voiceover)  00:19

This is Humans on Rights, a podcast advocating for the education of human rights. Here's your host, Stuart Murray.

 

Stuart Murray  00:30

Richard Thomas has been a Manitoba tech industry professional for over 20 years. He is a certified leadership coach and currently a senior leader of software engineering at  Skip the Dishes, where he has been instrumental in leading innovative projects and driving technological excellence for over five years. Rich is the founder and global Chair of Jet in Color, which is an employee resource group. Within Skip's parent company focused on marginalized ethnic communities currently spanning Canada, UK, Germany and the Netherlands. Richard's leadership and commitment to creating positive change have propelled Skip's technological advancements and strengthened the fabric of its diverse corporate culture. Richard is pivotal in championing diversity and inclusion within the tech industry, fostering an environment that celebrates multiculturalism and supports underrepresented voices, a central figure in the black community, he is revered for his dedication to mentorship, community engagement, and advocacy for racial equality. Rich, welcome to Humans on Rights.

 

Richard Thomas  01:44

Thanks for having me, Stuart. Happy to be here.

 

Stuart Murray  01:46

So let's just kind of get some background Rich, I know that anybody that had a chance to listen to my Human's on Rights podcast, with your brother, Chef, Rob, it was fantastic. And he gave me a little bit of background. But you know, tell me, from your perspective, growing up in Winnipeg, how you became interested in the career that you're on now, on the technical side, we're going to explore that, but how you became such a champion for diversity.

 

Richard Thomas  02:18

Growing up in Winnipeg, I mean, it was a great environment growing up, I mean, you know, two loving, super supportive parents, who immigrated from the Caribbean here, and had really, really instilled the values of hard work, but also had talked to us at an early age about understanding the challenges of, you know, living in a society where you are not the majority. And at a young age, we never really, I never really realized what a lot of black parents really instilled the values of the speech of, you're gonna, you're gonna have to work twice as hard for half as much. And it was something that resonated with me, when I was much older. As a child, I didn't get it. But I started seeing different inequalities. And I had a really hard time kind of trying to understand that my first realization where things were a little bit different, was by junior high, I had realized, like, I never had any teachers that like, that looked like me. And looking at anybody who was an authority figure who looked like me, right, aside from my parents. So it's something that I always, really had carried with me. But that kind of left me when I left school, and I was, you know, kind of on my own with friends. And we dealt with certain things and certain challenges socially, and started recognizing it. But I always thought there were social issues, I didn't really realize it social and workplace issues are much in the same. So at one point in my my career, I started realizing, when I had moved on, done some technical work, and I decided I wanted to go into business for myself. And when I would meet with companies, I was my own consultant, I would always get asked to speak to the owner, or who, my manager, and not for any reason that there was like something wrong, but they were like, well, I was impression that I was going to be speaking with the owner. And I was like, Well, I am the owner. Right. And this is this is me, and always a little bit of a there was a little bit of a pause in there. And I always convinced myself that it wasn't what it was. And I think that partially was because growing up, you get surrounded by this really strong black community. But then you also get surrounded by another community that you hear different stories. You hear certain things happen because of race and because of the color of your skin. But then you hear from another group saying that like Well, that's not the case. Right? And you're we're taught in school knows that we are going to be judged and evaluated and celebrated on our merit and our hard work. And understanding that that can be the case, but it's not always the case. So for me, once I became working in a professional environment, I started seeing different things were now full circle. Now I'm now I'm, I feel like I'm back in school, right? Because I'm learning on things and learning this professional environment. And I'm still not seeing anybody who looks like me, in authoritative positions in powerful positions. So to me, that really, really got me thinking, and it really started pushing me as a person to say, why not me? Like, why can't I be in those roles? And I've always believed in strong leadership. And I've always been a self starter. So somewhere along the lines, right when he started getting deeper into, like, professional career in like, early 2000s, was like, Okay, starting to realize that like, Hey, I don't have to limit myself to what others believe I can start, you know, pushing my own direction.

 

Stuart Murray  06:12

So Richard, you got involved in sort of the study of technology, you went to Red River to learn some of that background? What got you interested in sort of looking at technology? What What kind of spurred your interest about that?

 

Richard Thomas  06:25

My dad, actually, my dad's a teacher. And what my dad had done at one point was as a little side business to make a little bit of extra money, he decided that he wanted to take a course in order to like help build and repair computers. And it was, I'd like to say it was an online course. But when I think of it that was there was definitely not an online course. But a self study course. Yeah. To understand it was a become a plus certified. And so when he was building computers and fixing computers, I often kind of hovered and ask questions. And so my dad was always into technology. We had a computer growing up big games, we didn't we didn't have that we had an Atari, but after Atari, we didn't have any gaming systems. We had a Commodore 64. And then my dad's interested in technology just really started driving that that within me.

 

Stuart Murray  07:19

Interesting, you know, Richard, did you kind of look at it and say that you wanted to be a programmer? Or did you look at it and say that you wanted to, like have a specific area? Are you just saying, Look, I'm going to look at this technology and see where it takes me?

 

Richard Thomas  07:32

Yeah, so it's interesting. So it was something that I always liked doing. But I went to Red River, and I took Business Administration. And right near the end of my business administration, I noticed a course came up and it was outside of Red River, it was around computer programming. And I'd spent time and had been in Red River for about a year and a half, right at this point. And this course came up, you know, how I thought, of course, came up. And I thought, This is what I want to do. This is exactly what I want to do. I want to be involved in technology. And this is what I'm going to do. So against better judgment that was probably six months away from graduating Business Admin. But this course was starting right away. So I left it, I left Business Admin. And I hopped right into this course. And I learned some HTML, and I learned COBOL programming. And that really started giving me an interest in technology and understanding a little bit more, I started taking some Microsoft courses, like it really just opened my world in terms of like, what technology could be and where it was going.

 

Stuart Murray  08:49

Yeah, interesting. And so when you graduated from there, tell us what did you do?

 

Richard Thomas  08:54

That companies had created the course. They also had a consulting company, and they ended up landing a government contract for testing computers for we all remember when the year 2000 was going to hit in the clock rollover and the Apocalypse.

 

Stuart Murray  09:09

Exactly.

 

Richard Thomas  09:10

Right. So we were the guardians of the Apocalypse, we had developed a program that tested the on a floppy disk that would run and test to see whether clocks on computers would roll over properly. So we had to test computers all over the province doing this so we've been on the road for you know, weeks at a time and then testing in rural areas. And shortly after that project started an opportunity came up to to lead the team and I volunteer to lead the team. And to me, that was like my real first taste of leadership. From there. I worked with a few different local companies as a full time employee, one company I started with the just, it was chemical comark, they just asked I, they would hire me just to change toner cartridges. That's all it was, to me, I was like I was I was going to do more. And that was that was that I just, I was just looking for a foot in the door. And from there, you know, a few years later on leading me to national projects and working with people from all across the country and really, really enjoyed that and moved on to a few different different, you know, outgrown that I was there for eight years and outgrown that and moved to different areas. And then I worked with one organization. And sort of this is where I started really seeing some some things I had been hired as a manager. But I also saw that I wasn't really being treated the same as other managers, I was on a very, you know, for lack of a better term, very short leash. And from there, I decided that you know what, this may be a good opportunity for me to go on my own, I've been thinking about it for a while, I was a single guy, no kids, low mortgage payments, I didn't really have I didn't know a lot of money, different things. So I figured this was, this was the best time for me to go go off and do it. And from there, I launched a business called Remix Technology Consulting, with Remix, I worked with primarily small and medium sized businesses, and did focus on a little bit of computer repair, which was something I didn't really want to do. But I focused more on the network side, we're building smaller networks. I did a lot with chiropractic offices and smaller businesses in terms of their startup or troubleshooting some of the issues. And so I did that I did that for about six years on my own.

 

Stuart Murray  11:40

Wow. So backing up just a bit on that Rich, as you see you were working for a national organization, obviously at a senior level, but you felt that you were to use your terms, you were on a short leash from a professional at a serious level. Would you say that that was kind of your first serious encounter with racism.

 

Richard Thomas  12:00

The organization that I worked with a little bit on the on the national level, I had actually a really great experience with with them. And when I had moved on, it was something that I needed to grow. The one that you're referring to, yeah, it was I started noticing it, not only with myself, but my my staff, I was the only person who had a diverse team, which also kind of struck me a little bit odd. When I had to join that company, it struck me a little bit odd. And again, it was my trying to understand like is like, was this the reason why I was hired? And I saw the unfair treatment of of those people who were under my direct report from a boss above me. And batch come through me. And so I really saw that it was not placed where I needed to be. That was my really first experience with some workplace.

 

Stuart Murray  12:52

Interesting. And so there you are, you decide you got some great experience, you're going to hang up your own shingle, start your own business. But then you have this interesting introduction. As people come in, try to employ you they want to speak to the owner, they want to speak to the boss of which of course that is you. Did you ever anticipate that that might be a conversation you'd have to sort of deal with until you really got yourself or your company established as who you are?

 

Richard Thomas  13:18

No, I didn't. It was not something that I that I expected. And I think that the first few times that happened, it really caught me off guard. And I wasn't really sure what to expect. I think I honestly think the first time it happened, if I'm trying to remember correctly, I think I laughed actually, I think I thought it was kind of funny. But then I started realizing like, Hey, this is not funny. Yeah, and it's not funny. And I think that like, I was actually really discouraged. And I stayed in that business. For the sole reason that it was paying the bills, I honestly didn't enjoy it, I actually was I actually started working from there near the end of actually started a different, a different business, which was I opened a gym, and that was a trainer in that gym, and I ran that gym for for nine years. And until they actually tell you the truth. And alongside when I was running that business, as I ended up, shutting down my main consulting business, and started doing some full time work, I was doing running a gym, and one of the trainers and like two employees, and I was working full time in the technology space. So it was it was a pretty it was a pretty busy guy.

 

Stuart Murray  14:35

Wow. Yeah, you sure were that's amazing. It's fascinating, because, you know, you can sort of see how when you you know, as I read your, your intro about about what you're doing and some of the amazing things that you're involved in, like you didn't do a major pivot. I mean, maybe when you're at Red River, you know, just before you're gonna graduate in business, you kind of pivoted, but you kind of found yourself working in the world of technology. And so let's talk about what you're currently involved in now, Richard sounds very, very exciting. And again, I always have to put a plug in for Nadia Thompson because she, you know, she's such a driving force. And she's such an incredible person. I mean, she was the one that just absolutely was so adamant that you and I meet and have this conversation. So yeah, so shout out to Nadia. But let's talk about what you are doing now. And some of the projects you're involved in, I want to touch on the fact that you're a global chairman for jet and color. But before we get there, let's back up and just kind of position are you? Did you get hired to work at 24/7 out of this the last current job that you had? Or how did that come about? I sorry, I apologize. Skip the dishes? Skip the dishes? Not 24/7, you got hired by skip the dishes? My mistake?

 

Richard Thomas  15:44

Yeah, no, I had been at 24/7. Before. But yeah, so moving towards skip was this pivotal moment, in my, in my career, honestly, to bring in that story. I'd worked with an organization for a while and going through consulting and leaving that and moving into different spaces. And I was in a position where I was back in that toxic environment. And I saw the wave that we had people who were, again, there was a few who looked like me, but not not many, but they weren't in the same space. But I'd seen senior level leaders, executive leaders treat people of color a certain way, you know, and other minorities, females a certain way. And it was something that even though I've seen in my career, I'd kept quiet on it for ever. And at this point, I just, I got to a point where I was like, I don't, I don't think I can keep quiet anymore. I also knew that if I had brought it up and brought it directly to senior leadership, and the HR to me the time, that probably was gonna be the end for me in that organization. And I brought it up, and it was, so shortly after that company, you know, was told they're going a different direction. And, and I was exited from the organization, that was the best thing that's ever happened to me, I really started looking at where I wanted to be in what organization I wanted to be with, and where I can make a difference, I really started, I really started believing that I can make a difference where before I didn't as much, I think I said, you know going back to owning owning the business, the gym, being able to help support people and help change people's lives through physical fitness that really inspired me to to do to do more. And so this became more of a new mission for me and wanting to be in a space where I could actually make a difference. So I you know, put feelers out and talk to a few different people. And I had some, some contacts of people that have worked at Skip and I was talking about with the organization and the organization has been going through a bunch of changes. The time when I came about was just one Skip was it was just one Skip was being sold to some orders in the in the UK. And so when I started, I was told that the Hey, there's some challenges and some disruptions in the organization, just business wise that like, we're looking for somebody who's really going to come in and understand that there's gonna be some challenges and has some big opportunities. So I went to, I moved on to Skip. And I really, really enjoyed the people and the culture and that space, getting to what you're looking to get, again, like the, you know, the ERG space and our jet color. What how that happened was, it was during the summer of George George Floyd incident, Skip is an organization like many organizations wanted to put out a response to that, and Skip had put out a response to that a public response on it, it felt a little bit short. Because for the people of color in the organization, as much as we felt supported, we were looking for something more. Right, we're looking for something more. So what had happened is our CEO at the time, had reached out to a few key people and one to get some feedback. I was one of those people. And then we had actually a really, really good discussion. He was really, really open about his understanding and his lack of understanding and wanting to like learn, learn, learn more. And so we had a really, really open discussion on some of the challenges that people of color face. And so it was actually right then and there through that conversation that we decided that we were going to start a an internal group. And we were going to see how we can make a difference in our organization and see if we can bring some more attention to some of the challenges that people of color face in business.

 

Stuart Murray  19:44

As we're talking about this just put a timeline on it rich, are you now at Skip what you're talking about? This is sort of an experience that that you're bringing to Skip. So the fact that you are the global Chair of jet in color, he does that work with inside Skip, or are you outside, and this is something that you do. But you're bringing that into Skip as sort of a, I don't want to see consultant that maybe you are, maybe that's something that you're you're doing, I just I'm trying to differentiate if if Jet and Color is a standalone or if it's inside the Skip organization.

 

Richard Thomas  20:18

So the reason why we're called Jet in Color is because how ownership has come our parent company is each takeaway. So our acronym within the company is JET. So that's in color is our global PRG. And so that was started that started out actually, as just the Skip, we were called the bipoc network originally, and was operating within, within Skip. Now, our organization in the UK had a group called Boehm, and they don't do that terms don't use it anymore. But it is black, Asian minority ethnic. And so that was a group that had been formed, but had had been disbanded, so to speak, right, there's people have left the company in different pieces. So we started by POC network within Skip as just as a standalone, and what are the things that we can do, we wanted to bring, we want to celebrate, we wanted to educate people, but we also wanted to celebrate, you know, achievements. And we wanted to make sure that we can create a more inclusive environment, and help influence you know, some of the things that we can do in terms of inside our organization.

 

Stuart Murray  21:27

And so part of this always, in my mind, when you look at sort of the issues around diversity inclusion, and what does that sort of look like? You have to look at a whole organization and see, is it permeating the highest levels of decision making in the executive suites? And is it starting to become a senior role? And is that something that you have seen? Or is that something that you're developing? Or is that something you're leading?

 

Richard Thomas  21:53

Yeah, so I guess a little bit, a little bit of all the above. So within skip, again, and you mentioned in the intro, like I'm a senior engineering manager, right. So I work with our engineering team, the jack and color is something additionally, that I do, because it's something that I'm passionate about. And there's a I have a group, a group of other people who work within that. Our aim is to, as I said, like, we're not just we don't want to be this just celebrates things that we celebrate black history, I've actually been celebrating as a fourth year that we've celebrated black history, and organization. And we've done different things like we had a big Diwali celebration last year, we have a lot of panels and discussions, we had a really big one around Canada Day, last year and eating together to different people in different backgrounds. And we celebrate a lot of different things. There we are. Now, as part of that, we have executive executive sponsors who worked with us. So we have members of the executive team who worked directly with us. And we work towards creating more not only visibility, but opportunities for people of color. So the organization has done a really good job, there's still a lot of work to do. But the organization has done a really, really good job in terms of being able to not only do a good job of how we hire, but making sure that we've created support systems within them. So I've seen a huge, huge, huge difference in how we've hired more diversely. Since when I started, it's actually completely different paved the way that and the emphasis on diversity in our hiring and our inclusive environments that we're speaking to and creating in the amount of senior leaders and people who've reached out to me and again, maybe for some some advice or some some support, and you know, having people who are an executive level, being able to reach out and say, hey, you know, are you okay, if I talk to you about something? I'm, you know, I'm curious about this, right. So I've really, really enjoyed being able to be part of that.

 

Stuart Murray  23:58

Yeah, from my perspective, Rich's that you've got sort of the the technological sort of background on the side and working in technology, which I mean, it's obviously a huge part of an organization like like, Skip, but that you have been able to work within the organization that sounds like it's embracing what it is that you're trying to do with respect to bringing in a diverse culture into the whole organization. And you're obviously at a at a very senior level, do you see that that is happening across the entire organization that they're elevating? Because sometimes, you know, there has to be mentoring to anybody that goes into a senior role. Is that something that you're seeing a lot of at Skip?

 

Richard Thomas  24:39

I'm seeing a little bit of it. There's definitely a lot more more emphasis on it. I see our senior leadership becoming more open and aware of the challenges and I'm seeing that we have programs now it's in our organization for me internship, I'm part of two of them. But we have programs that are specifically structured in we have a couple leadership programs, then we have an enemy of two mentorship programs. And those are not specifically just focused on people of color. But managers are encouraged to, to make sure that there is there's opportunities for for people of color and being able to do that. So organizationally, I think there's still there's still a long way to go like many organizations in terms of seeing those people who are maybe mentored or those roles moving into some more senior roles. But I'm seeing the ground level work, and a lot of the ground level work at the organization being being done right now.

 

Stuart Murray  25:43

And do you feel that they've created a sort of an open enough culture, and again, this conversation isn't about Skip, it's about rich Thomas. But I just wondered within that rich, just from your, your perspective, you feel that there's a real sort of openness to embrace that kind of culture there. Because I know that you can read stories, you can read the papers and talk to people about the intention might be good, and people are trying to, you know, do the best they can and they're trying to move things and you know, whether it's, you know, checking boxes, which becomes a little bit vacuous, frankly and meaningless. But you know, there are those elements that organizations when they're trying to look at, at sort of the whole issue of diversity and equity. And what does that what does that entail? From your perspective? I mean, because you have leadership qualities about you, you see that that's happening and being embraced in the organization you're currently in?

 

Richard Thomas  26:33

Yeah, I do. I always tell people this is, you know, just one of my lines. So it's the I always tell people that progress isn't linear. It doesn't work in that straight line. Always. I think, from what I've seen, an awful lot of I've experienced, there's a huge openness in our culture. And the mostly the things that I've been speaking to are things around, you know, some of the the events from Black History Month, and those those pieces, there is a huge culture, he's in the organization, multifaith rooms, right? For example, right? The organization had, you know, we've moved into our new office, and we have, you know, I've never been an organization that has multifaith rooms, and like, in in embraces the opportunity to educate people on different organization, background backgrounds, we're doing right now Ramadan, right. And there are a lot of communications around Ramadan, and what it is and how to support your colleagues who are participating in Ramadan. There's a lot of different things that are happening there. And just like society, there are going to be people who are a little bit more open to discussing things. But there's a lot of leaders who aren't people of color who are looking for change, and we're looking at the challenge always is, is like, how do you do it? Right, how do you do it? And what's my part is always like, the biggest challenge, because it does take a lot of a lot of effort. And I think that that's where I don't want to say we're getting stuck. But I think that's kind of where it slows down.

 

Stuart Murray  28:09

And from your involvement, what would you say, you know, sort of in the past number of years, would you say has been the biggest change that you specifically as seen within the organization in terms of advancement?

 

Richard Thomas  28:22

I think that the conversations that have been had with the executive team, I think, like, when I speak specifically the executive team and all senior leadership, those are a lot more open conversations in terms of like, how do we how do we get better? And what are the things that we can do? The organization, as an organization have done things within like, there are women and tech programs, like we have a lot of ERG's, so it's actually interesting, because when we started this, we had a women in tech ERG, but we had started our ERG and we've been environment for inclusiveness has just grown because we have different, you know, we have a lot of an unknown. I know a lot of organizations have ERG's, but I know a lot of them don't actually, like I find it interesting, I think some of the bigger ones, the biggest advancement I've seen is the openness to celebrate, as well as ask questions. So celebrate, we know we talked about some of the events and things that we've that we've thrown, we have a called the hobbits are kind of recreation space. We have cultural events there all the time. And it's a house and we're starting to see senior leaders, you know, take part in those. We have a lot of discussion panels. We do a lot of panels about really, really important issues, and we're seeing our senior leaders, take space in there and ask questions like ask open honest questions. And so I think there's still always again, more room to like improve and to go, but I always keep reminding myself the same thing I tell everybody is progress isn't linear doesn't mean after this step in this step times it's a little bit of a stall, sometimes a little bit of a revolution. But I'm seeing that they there's a willingness to move forward. The hard part again is, how do we do this? And what do I as a person, a non person of color, how do I help this organization?

 

Stuart Murray  30:20

Right? And then rich, just to come back to an acronym you talk about ERG's is that employer resource group?

 

Richard Thomas  30:26

That is employer resourse group.

 

Stuart Murray  30:27

And the fact of life is, is that you know, as I read in your intro, this organization that you are Chair of Jet and Color, it's focused, as they said, on marginalized communities, you know, talking about Canada, where we are here, the UK, Germany and the Netherlands. So are you finding that within all of those different countries that things are advancing in different ways? Or are they kind of advancing in a way that you see them being very equitable? Or do you say, you know, there's some countries that are really very, very progressive, and some are quite that way. And so it's a part of what you do on a daily basis.

 

Richard Thomas  31:01

I always had this belief that like, you know, the European side is a little bit more advanced, a little bit more open, open thinking, not when it comes to this. From a cultural standpoint, we've moved a little bit quicker in our organization than we've had in other in other areas. But understanding that there are different things as an example, so one of my co chairs, the co chair for Jet and Color, who way helped lead that group with, she's based in Germany. She's originally from Toronto, so she's a black woman from Toronto, who's based in Germany. And historically, we know, there's been some some some challenges identifying and speaking about race, and specifically, Germany, but from some of the work that she has done, and being able to see that there's like, there's, there's a, there's a willingness, but it's people are coming around a little bit slower in some of those areas. And again, UK a little bit more, Netherlands a little bit more as well, too. That's where our parent company resides. And we have our IVD director, who's out there, too. So he's driving some things. So we're seeing those spaces grow. We're just happy to help lead the way from a standpoint here in Canada, understanding that every culture is a little bit different. And maybe the willingness to change perspective, in certain ways, is sometimes tough for some people, and some cultures, but it is moving along more than I would have expected. There. Again, the fact that we have local chapters in these places is an amazing sign. And so that these are things ever existed before. And we're getting a lot of support from our executives in those areas, too.

 

Stuart Murray  32:37

Yeah and, you know, Rich, I've been one of the things that you mentioned early on is when you were going to school, whether it was other classmates or teachers, you didn't see anybody that kind of looked like you. And now you're at a senior senior role at Skip, are you are you starting to see more people potentially applying to be a part of the organization because of the diversity is there so when they hold up a mirror, they do see themselves in that organization.

 

Richard Thomas  33:03

I'm starting to see our organization being very open in terms of wanting to hire diversely. And speaking to that, publicly, also speaking internally, doing that, I'm also seeing that the drive for mentorship and leadership is happening a lot and seeing a lot more people of color to be so and I think that as we see more people of color, and we see more opportunities for people of color, this is what drives people to make change. Right? This is what drives people make change. When I look at our organization and my team, I remember I had a goal. And I wanted my team to be at least 50% female, and at least 30% people of color. And that was something that I set. And that I did it, and I didn't need approval for it. I didn't need permission for it. But seeing the moves, the small moves that I made, because I realized I have a level of power and influence that I can help drive the organization forward. So in me doing that, I started seeing a lot more interest in people moving into like more leadership roles and more senior roles and seeing it like it happened pretty fast after that, seeing that. So getting a lot of again, people of color, starting to say, Hey, I see that there's an opportunity. And I see that somebody's giving an opportunity for me and I see somebody who looks like me or somebody who is a person of color who is doing those things and where I didn't before so now it opens that door for a possibility say hey, maybe I can be be in that space too.

 

Stuart Murray  34:49

That's very positive and forward looking. And I want to just get on the the off ramp of our conversation with kind of maybe a couple of last questions for you Rich, you put a lot of stock and I think you're recognized as somebody who is very big in leadership or coaching, talk a little bit about what that means to you in terms of when people look at you in terms of the role that you're a leadership and a coach. What sort of pressures? Do you feel in an environment like that, that those are some of the expectations that people are expecting from you?

 

Richard Thomas  35:19

That's a great question. So there are a lot of questions, I do think that there are a lot of pressures in that, especially when again, seeing that there aren't, aren't a lot of black leaders or people of color, who are leaders. And people do often look to me for coaching, I've always believed that we have opportunities, and we have opportunities to help people grow. And it's something that I've taken very, very seriously. And so I've been a trainer in the gym, of coach women's soccer for a long time, I have not in a while, but seeing the difference that like positive leader can can make, and I've had some really great leaders as well to seeing that impact. It's something that I take really, really seriously, I also have a 18 month old daughter, and a want to ensure that I can help lead and poach the generation who will be coaching and leading the next generation who will be coaching and leading my daughter. So to me, it's any good to create a wave of impact.

 

Stuart Murray  36:25

Yeah, if somebody said to you, you know, you're in the leadership, you're in the coaching world, where is there somebody that you could say, you know, here's somebody who I aspired, or, you know, gave me a sense of what I could do. And I always took a lot from that person, whether it's somebody that we know, or whether it's somebody who's maybe a bit more famous, is there somebody that you would say, you know, when I think about leadership, this is the person that comes to mind.

 

Richard Thomas  36:51

It's not necessarily one person, but pieces of people, one of my heroes and people who I was, you know, admire for leadership, Nelson Mandela, I read Long Walk to Freedom, I read it every year. To me, it's such an inspiring piece on how leaders can be empathetic, and how leaders can listen and how leadership is not often viewed. Leadership, I think, typically, in our environment in North America is always like, viewed as like, this thing that somebody is pushing you forward, and being the person who's always standing in front of everybody. And it's not like leadership is a whole lot of different things. And he really, you know, embodies a leadership style that I that resonate with me personally, and there's so many different people, my mom had always been a person who showed me support, and somebody who always believed in me, and she's a person who's always I remember when, when I first started out on my own and my own business, and my mom said, you know, it's a very positive way. She just said, well, she's like, now you're really gonna see what you're made of. And I still remember that conversation. It wasn't like, you know, you'll see, it was just like, she knew she knew it. He just needed needed. So that's kind of like, it's the two people really stand out in my head.

 

Stuart Murray  38:17

Ya know, I mean, it's fantastic. And, you know, it's always tremendous to look at somebody who's abi, historically is a magnificent, iconic person, like Mandela. And you know, then somebody who has every day that was part of your life, that is somebody who has been a wonderful mentor and leader. And that's a great way a Rich funding for us to sort of end our conversation on how you have managed to become such a innovator, such a kind of a disruptor in an organization to ensure that diversity, equity, a sense of who organizations can be that people start to feel comfortable. And so rather than worrying about who might be looking at them, because potentially the color of their skin or their background, they're being valued because they are participating because they have tremendous opportunities to participate. And you're obviously leading that way at a very international organization. And so, congratulations to you, Rich Thomas, and thank you for sharing. A little bit of time with me on Humans on Rights, I thoroughly enjoyed listening to you.

 

Richard Thomas  39:25

Thanks. Thanks for having me. It's a pleasure talking to you.

 

Stuart Murray  39:28

We will be in touch again. I'm sure take  care.

 

Matt Cundill  39:31

Thanks for listening to Humans on Rights. A transcript of this episode is available by clicking the link in the show notes of this episode. Humans on Rights is recorded and hosted by Stuart Murray, social media marketing by Buffy Davey music by Doug Edmund. For more, go to humanrightshub.ca. Produced and distributed by the Sound Off Media Company.