Why High-Functioning Moms Are So Emotionally Exhausted with Psychologist Alissa Jerud, PhD

Scottie Durrett  0:00  
Scott, welcome to the momplex Podcast. I am your host. Scottie Durett, my passion and purpose is to help other moms just like me rediscover their joy and step into their confidence as their kids grow up. Join me as I share my own experiences, my own mistakes and aha moments as I navigate this incredible journey of motherhood while trying not to lose my identity. If you are a modern day mama who is ready to live for herself, not just for her kids, and knows that is the best possible gift you could give, then you are in the right place. This is momplex.

Scottie Durrett  0:41  
Hey, my wonderful momplex community. I'm really excited about today. I've been looking forward to this conversation. We booked it a while ago, but today I'm talking with Alyssa Jared. She's a clinical psychologist, she's a professor, she's a mom, she's an author, and she's sitting in the middle of a snowstorm with her beautiful boys right now, and she's here, and she's going to give us so much support, which we need right now more than ever, when I know that we are feeling the pressure of we are working so hard, and yet things can still feel like, why am I frazzled? Why do I feel like things are not working? Why do I still feel this pressure of perfectionism? And she specializes in helping families handle anxiety, big feelings, and that those real emotional challenges that come with parenting, because parenting doesn't always follow the way we think it quotes should. And Alyssa helps us do this without shame, which I love, that's like the thing that we're trying to break through constantly, and we're going to get through the shame, the blame and that pressure of perfectionism. And honestly, this conversation is something that parents really need at any stage. And so I'm really happy that you're here, and I just want to give you the microphone to welcome you and introduce yourself to everybody. So, Alyssa, welcome.

Alissa Jerud  1:57  
Oh my goodness. Thank you so much. Thank you for that beautiful introduction. I don't know how I can top that, but I'll just say what I'm really excited to be here. I will note that I actually I had to have one boy. I have a girl, my kid there yet, I just figured I should give her credit there, the kids are too well and eight, almost 13 and nine, and they're home right now because we're in the middle of a blizzard here and then in the Northeast. But yeah, I'm a licensed clinical psychologist like you said. I primarily specialize in evidence based treatments for anxiety related disorders and emotion regulation difficulties those that come with parenting, and I'm so passionate about that, right? Like helping people to better navigate the painful, unwanted emotions that we all encounter, but as parents, I think we especially encounter that. I ended up writing this book emotion savvy thing that really aims to help parents just be able to show up more in line with how they actually want to show up with their kids. Because the thing about our emotions is they're really valuable. They're important. We never want to ignore them, but they can very easily take us away from acting in ways that align with who we want to be as people and as parents. And so I wanted to give parents some tools to help them so that the emotion, their emotions, those unwanted emotions, painful emotions, don't call the shots. Yeah, we're

Scottie Durrett  3:21  
going to be on YouTube, so I have it right here, and we're going to put the links in the show notes, so everybody can go find it. What I think is really helpful, because you talk about things that they don't talk about in the baby books, right? You know, when I found out I was pregnant, I was a voracious reader. I'm an excellent student, and I thought, if I read all this, I'm going to learn how to swaddle my kid, and I'm going to be on the every three hours, and I'm going to, you know, make the baby food. I'm going to be the best mom. And I remember looking at my daughter and I was like, I'm going to be the perfect mom, you know. And then you get home, and it's like a slap in the face, because what she she just decided she didn't want to sleep and she didn't want to eat every three hours. And so all those new emotions that I couldn't put words to started to bubble up, and I didn't have that manual. And so what did you do? You started to look outside of yourself, maybe to your mom or your mother in law or maybe friends. And if somebody else didn't necessarily go through that exactly, it was hard to identify. And so what I appreciate in your book, specifically, is that you you start to name some things that maybe moms don't know, that that's normal, right, like what you're saying to kind of get rid of the shame and the blame that these feelings, while they might be uncomfortable, they're they're part of it, you know? And I think getting comfortable with that discomfort allows us to what you say, not necessarily let it take us over and disalign us from who we are, right, but to kind of help us say, like, Oh, that's not that's me, that's still me. But what is it trying to tell me? You know, I wish this was handed to me versus the this is how you breastfeed your children. I mean, I did that too, but. Yeah. So I let's, I want to talk about this. So first of all, this is kind of a broad question. Do you think that we're kind of overthinking parenting sometimes? Do you think we're just putting so much pressure on ourselves? Sometimes? Yes, without it, right? Yeah. I mean, because end of the podcast, yes, we're done, yes, yeah.

Alissa Jerud  5:19  
But I mean, if you think about it, makes so much sense, right? Our kids, for most of us, we love them more than anything in this world, and so we wouldn't do right by that. We want to do our best job possible. And that's a lot of pressure right there, right? Because we're human, we're going to make mistakes and and then you compound that with like so many other factors, right? The fact that there are so many mixed messages out there about the right way to parent and be really overwhelming as a parent to know, how do I sort through all of that? And then we also see these comparisons with other parents, who seem to be, I don't know, more chill than we are, or they seem to have it together more their kids seem better behaved. And so then again, then we find ourselves feeling like we're falling short in some way, and it can just be really overwhelming and can take away from some of the joy that we experience when parenting. And so that's part of why I wanted to write this book too, right, to make it so that parenting can be somewhat more joyful and rewarding, because it is this really amazing thing that we all get to do. And I think sometimes we just kind of, you know, it's hard to see that when we are drowning, essentially, and all the pressure we're putting on ourselves, all the demands that come with parenting,

Scottie Durrett  6:31  
yeah, well, the drowning and the demands, I know my mom looks at my life right now and she just doesn't, she's this is not how we live. This the pressure of just the sports, the academics, the, you know, after school activities, in addition to, you know, just grabbing your phone right and just the flow of information. So I actually appreciate there's this kind of pendulum swing that I'm feeling in my body where I'm almost wanting to go back to the classics, right, the pen to the paper, the book, The putting the phone down because I'm feeling so well, AI's here to stay. So, right? We need to get used to that. But it's like, I'm feeling so inundated with the phone, the pressure, and it's hard to discern, what is mine? What is my feeling? What's my idea? What's my notion? When it's it's hard to even catch your breath, right? So I appreciate that it's even a book to kind of slow down, to go back to, just like, can we quiet the noise and just, do I even feel that way? I don't even know. Is that my feeling or is that my friend's feeling right?

Alissa Jerud  7:33  
Yeah, extracurriculars trying to drive kids everywhere, and you've heard of that. So we feel the need to put our kids in every activity possible. We feel the need to be with our kids at all times, like, entertain them. And I part of also, what I'm hoping for is to kind of lighten the load a little bit for parents in our home, right? Like, we try to do maybe one or two at most sports per kind of season, because I just can't do more than that, right? Like, I don't want to do more than that, too much for me to try to drive my kids to so many different places. And then also, you know, today it's a beautiful snow day. I am a little under the weather, and usually I go out with my kids to play in the snow. And today I just said, You know what, you guys are welcome to go out. I'm gonna stay inside. And I got some like, small little chores done, but I didn't put that on myself, to get out there right when I wasn't really feeling up for it, and because they have fun without me too. Yeah. Well, it's

Scottie Durrett  8:29  
okay for them to also see you as a human being. I think sometimes moms I did this for a long time. If I wasn't always living a certain way, then the world would fall apart. Things would fall through the cracks, and so I never even let myself get sick, but that my body didn't. My body was like, Well, I yeah, I like that. You think you're not gonna get sick, but we're still gonna get sick. So I tried to will that away, like, I'm not gonna let myself get sick. But then my kids actually got into the habit that I never got sick, so they actually got uncomfortable when I would, you know, the routine would get off. So it's actually nice. I think sometimes when we say it's, this is how it is today, and we're okay with that. So, you know, let's, can we talk about, I love that you actually brought up the decision that you've made that you're going to just do one right, like one activity. I think because that's hard for parents right now, you know, their kid will come home and say, Mom, stewies and, you know, this and this and this, and my best friend's here, and I want to do this. Can I just sign up? It's not that big of a deal. Not to mention it costs a fortune. It's so hard to get places. But as a mom, you think, okay, I don't want to say, No, it's great. Why not? Maybe we could. You know, you can almost talk yourself into it, but those emotions, like, what's building in us? What is that conflict in us that's happening when we know deep down that maybe we we shouldn't do it, but then we're our brain is talking us out of like, just do it, like, what's going on there? And how can we help us make the best decisions? For us and not our neighbor. Yeah, yeah.

Alissa Jerud  10:05  
Well, I mean, it probably varies from person to person, but my guess is two, two emotions come to mind. One is anxiety, right? Like, oh no, I again. Like, if I don't do this, I'm going to fail my kid. I won't be the perfect mom I want to be in. So therefore I they must do it, otherwise, who knows what their future is going to look like if I don't get them in this this activity? So I think there's probably some anxiety there, and then also maybe guilt too, right, like the right way to do things. I should be able to do everything for my kid. I should always try to please them. And so when we feel like maybe we aren't going to do that, we may feel some guilt as well. There are probably other emotions there too, but I think just recognizing that and that those emotions are normal are natural emotions to feel, and we don't necessarily have to do what those emotions are pulling for. So anxiety usually tries to pull us to avoid that anxiety. And in this instance, the way to avoid would be to actually just say yes, yes. You that activity, because then I don't have to feel the anxiety I feel about saying no, and you possibly missing out on something, right? And then guilt depends. But guilt can lead us just to again, same thing. We don't want to feel that, so we end up doing whatever we can to not have to feel that guilt oftentimes. So we kind of bend over backwards, take on more than we really should, or then what would be ideal for us again to escape that discomfort? And so I think in both of those cases, it would be ideally like whatever that emotion is to recognize, yeah, I'm feeling anxious, I'm feeling guilty, maybe I'm feeling some other emotion. There's a strong pull in me to just say yes, let my kids sign up for that activity so I don't have to feel so uncomfortable. And I know that's actually probably going to lead me to feel a lot more uncomfortable down the road when I'm trying to get to 10 different places, you know, all in the same day. And so I'm going to let myself feel those feelings and say no,

Scottie Durrett  12:03  
I like the way you explained it. I mean, it is, it's what's the quickest way to make that discomfort go away, to say yes, to move forward and to stay busy, you know? I mean, it's like, if you're Go, go, go, and it's your brain is like, I'm such a good mom. How could that be wrong? I did what they asked, you know, when you almost think if I'm suffering, then it's okay. My kid's not suffering, you know, but it's I. My kids are older. I've got a freshman in college, so I've got 1817, and 13, and I, I lived under this belief that it doesn't matter if I'm in pain, as long as they're okay, then my pain won't matter, but that joke's on me, because that could only, I mean, it's almost like adrenaline. You can only go that for so long, and then after a while, I was like, actually, it's kind of affecting everybody. And that was a really hard lesson for me to learn, and I had to kind of admit that, and they had to kind of admit that. I mean, I've told this on the podcast before, but my daughter literally looked at me and said, I don't know if I want to be a mom, because you and I, that was such like horrible but beautiful slap in the face for me, because I realized I you can't actually live in a bubble as a mom. It does affect you.

Alissa Jerud  13:18  
So I will just know I have a feeling, most of your listeners, and myself included, we've been there before, right where you think you can do it all and like that's the right thing to do, that's being a martyr, essentially, for your children, and but it wears you out completely, burns you out. And again, is that really the path that you want your kids to go down? Do you want to model that for them. And so I love that you were able to recognize that that, no, wasn't healthy for you, and it wouldn't be healthy for your daughter down the road either, and make the pivot that a lot of strength, a lot of courage.

Scottie Durrett  13:53  
It well, it's you know, my goal, honestly, with these conversations is, you know, for people to learn about you, to learn about your book and to hear these conversations in the hopes that they don't get as far down the road that I was, and maybe start to learn hear their body talking to them a little bit faster or sooner. Because, you know, a lot of moms listening, very capable, very driven, very high functioning, multitasking, ambitious women, but emotionally exhausted, and they're getting used to being emotionally exhausted. That's becoming the normal, and I'm seeing a lot of high functioning I was this way a high functioning parent struggling the most when it comes to emotional regulation for themselves and their kids, right? Like we're really missing we're so good at, you know, juggling everything, but in we're kind of just piling it on, you know, and we're just getting stronger and stronger and stronger and thinking, ooh, tough season. I'll just get stronger versus, you know, kind of slowing down and saying, where. Is hard for me. Where is that neck pain isn't going away, you know, that stress, that numbness, that dullness, we know, where they're kind of brushing it all aside and thinking, I guess this is mom life. I guess this is just how I'm supposed to feel. And then, you know, I live that way for a dozen years, and then my body finally gave out on me. But what I'm hoping is that we start to highlight that those are actually beautiful signals your body's sending to you. It doesn't have to feel that way, and we can start to make some smaller adjustments. So So talk to me a little bit about just how this all came to be. I know you talked about how you wanted to help, but talk about your journey, how you know everything, like your journey to your professor, your clinical psychologist, like, how did this, how did you decide to write the book? And where did this all come to be, and how, how's it affected you? And how have you seen it benefit your clients? And how has it affected benefiting your children and your relationship? All the good stuff. Oh, my

Alissa Jerud  15:58  
goodness, that is quite a question. I love it. Well, I will say I the idea to write the book came when I was as a mom, like finding myself really struggling, and I wrote about this in the book, but I just given birth to my son, and I was not enjoying parenting. Specifically, I was really struggling with my daughter. She was four years old at the time, and understandably, she was out of sorts, because her world had been turned upside down. My world had been turned upside down, and we were butting heads a lot, and I was just like, kind of dreading moments when I was one on one with her and it was just or when I was, you know, with both kids and on my own, I found it so overwhelming, so draining. And at some point, and I go into this more in the book, but I kind of realized that my attempts to get my daughter to change, to comply to, you know, like get out the door on time, or whatever it was to not make a giant mess, to not do the things that were upsetting me so much that those attempts were my way of trying to cope with the uncomfortable feelings that I was having, like feeling like I just had. I was desperate to find some way to get her to shape up, and yet they were actually leading probably to more of the behavior that I was finding so challenging, and also leading me to feel really terrible about myself and about my relationship with my daughter, and oh, at some point, I made this realization, ah, right, like, it's not working, what I'm doing. And I also noticed that this just like so I was attempting to try to get my daughter to change, wasn't working, and I realized it was very similar to why my patients oftentimes were doing in the case of anxiety, right? They were feeling anxious and trying to avoid that anxiety in some way, fight it, try to make it go away. So they have to feel so anxious, which made a lot of sense, right? Like in the moment, maybe it would work for them, they would do something to reduce that anxiety, and anxiety would go down. But the problem is, the next time around, they found themselves in a similar situation, they needed to resort to those same avoidance tactics or behavior, and again, just kind of kept their anxiety high. And I realized like, oh, it's essentially the same thing that's happening with my daughter, that I'm finding myself feeling uncomfortable and in a given situation, and instead of just sitting with that feeling and trying to get her to change, which sometimes works in the moment, most of the time, it wasn't working in the moment, but it was also teaching me that I couldn't tolerate that discomfort that I was feeling then and there. So I made that realization for myself, and yet it took a really long time to actually shift away from trying to change her. But I was lucky, and that I had, you know, the background, the training that I had had over years in learning skills, in regulating emotions and relating more skillfully to unwanted emotions. And so I started using them in my own life, in moments where I just felt so desperate to, you know, get my daughter to do something different and and then I started using those same skills, those same perspectives and strategies, with patients as well, and found that it was freeing for them too, just as it was for me right, shifting away from trying to control something that isn't ours to control can be really life changing and empowering. That's a long, long answer to your

Scottie Durrett  19:29  
question, so, but it's so helpful, and it's something that I related to so much because I my daughter's my first born, and we kind of had that same, well, I had that same narrative, like, it's not working. And I, you know, I think a lot of people look outside of themselves to for someone or something to change in order for them to feel better. I'll feel better when, I will feel better if. And it just puts so much pressure on the other person or thing to become to try to

Alissa Jerud  19:58  
change that other person. Yeah, true, yeah,

Scottie Durrett  20:01  
yeah, yeah. And you talk about this, but just like the how, you know, you taking care of yourself just improves that relationship, and improves the, like, the building of the connection, because then it just allows things to be more, Eve effortless, right? It just kind of relaxes everything. And I've, you know, I have felt that tremendously with my own work, you know, when I finally started to take radical responsibility, get getting comfortable with the discomfort, you know, and just learning how to teach, going back to school, so to speak with myself, like this is how you feel emotions. It has like the pressure in the house has dropped. You know, it's just, it's I felt that same way of just like rushing out the door, if I just follow the rules, if we just, you know, if we had this container of just perfection, then I would feel good, right? Even if it meant yelling and racing and rushing and all these kinds of stressful situations, and now realizing, okay, that's if I work on me, and I get comfortable with me, then there's a lot more comfort and connection in the house. And I've noticed I don't yell with my kids anymore. It's, I mean, that's beautiful, but I love that, and it's great. It's fair for them, you know, because they didn't really ask for anything except to just be here with us, right? So what about a mom who's listening right now, and maybe she's identifying, maybe she's feeling some pressure, but she's not sure if that's really what we're talking about. What are some signals or some signs that could be something that she could look for, maybe some disconnection, or some, I guess, just where she might notice where she's feeling, where she's putting pressure on herself and her life to try and like, avoid that discomfort or void, get rid of the anxiety with something else.

Alissa Jerud  21:51  
Yeah, well, I think the big thing is just noticing those moments, oftentimes where we feel like we must do something right here, right now, right like, you know, I need to, either I need to change how I'm doing everything this moment, or I need to get my kid to change in this moment. I think that's oftentimes nine. And one of the first things that I recommend would ever try to make any kind of behavior change is just to start increasing awareness of the behavior you're wanting to change. Just start noticing, Ah, right? Are there moments where I'm finding myself, maybe I'm flooded with anger, right? And then I'm acting, in a way like I'm acting on that anger. I'm yelling I'm trying to control, to get my kid to view things from my perspective, to get my kid to do something that they're not wanting to do, or, you know, whatever it is. Just notice, though, first I would say the first that. And sometimes it's even just like pausing in a moment, like when you're starting to feel heated, or the there's some tension that's happening in that moment, just taking a moment to notice it. I actually so yesterday, this happened in my home, where I noticed, you know, I like, I was finding myself feeling really, really overwhelmed. I was finding, like, one of my kids, it seemed like they were being completely unreasonable in that moment. And I was like, Oh my gosh. Like, I just want to get them to, like, to realize nobody meant to do anything and it's okay. And I caught myself, it's like, oh yeah. I'm feeling like, I have, I have to fix this right here, right now. We don't have to fix this, right I allow them to be upset. I can feel uncomfortable and things not being resolved, and then being angry with me and their sibling, and I'm kind of, you know, all of that. And I just noticed that in that moment, and it was like, oh yeah. It was just like, so freeing. But some men just that awareness piece takes some practice, and so the more parents can kind of tune into those moments, look out for them, maybe even jot them down in a notebook.

Scottie Durrett  23:53  
We are the fixer. We are the, I call us like the CEO, the CFO, the nucleus of the we're, you know, we're kind of the mitochondria and the nucleus and that, you know, the everything in the house, right? We're in charge of everything. So it is a shift to all of a sudden, say, and we're just gonna swim in the discomfort and we'll be okay, but just practice it and talk through it. You have a 12 year old. You're knocking on the door of, you know, pre teen. I've got some teenagers. Hormones are a thing. I'm also in perimenopause, hormones are a thing. Lots of ups and downs where, you know, we're kind of like a roller coaster. What are some tips, if you have any, that can help a mom, if, say, her kid is acting so different, they're coming home from school, maybe they're not talking to them anymore, maybe they're rolling their eyes more. Maybe they're shutting the door in their face, or they're just not liking them anymore, right? Like you're starting to, we're getting into that 13 to 19 where, you know, really, I do, maybe we don't our kids think we don't say anything right anymore. How do we handle those emotions and be patient and. Deal with that discomfort, and then our kids are going to be dealing with stuff they probably never felt before. How do we deal with that? That's a lot. So that's a lot. So you can fix all of that for everybody.

Alissa Jerud  25:10  
And it's easier said than done. For sure, it is so hard when it seems like your kid is, you know, being rude and disrespectful or unkind, ungrateful, and you're just trying to, like, shower them with love in a moment, or, you know, check in to see what's going on for them, like you're not trying to do anything, or maybe sometimes in a moment, you aren't showing up your best. And what do, you know, your kid explodes at you. But yes, you like, it can be really hard to know how to best navigate that. And I think the more we can recognize that our kids brains, even those older teens, who most often seem like they've got it put together, right, they know what they're, you know, they know how to conduct themselves. They can do just fine at school and not, you know, have huge outbursts, but yet they're having these huge outbursts at home, or they're, you know, giving us the cold shoulder, or whatever it may be, recognize that their brains are going through some intense development they don't have, like, what we call the prefrontal cortex, that part of our brains that allows us to inhibit unhelpful urges that come with strong emotions, that part of the brain is still developing. It's not ready yet to put the brakes on those unwanted impulses that they may have at times. And so in a moment, whether it's because they had a fight with a friend, they didn't do as well as they wanted to on their test, or, you know, they're just exhausted, or, you know, something else, but there's some something going on for them, and in that moment, they don't have the ability to say, like, Ah, right? Like, I want to be loving and kind to my mom at all times. So even though I'm a little and I'm going to say, thanks so much for asking mom, let me tell you all about my day, right? They just don't have that ability. And so the more you can recognize that, and recognize in some ways, that the slam of the door, slamming in your face, the screaming, I hate you. You never get it, or whatever it may be that's just almost like them crying out for help. And sometimes the help they need is just the space to feel what they want, not for you to scoop in and fix it

Scottie Durrett  27:16  
there it is, not to fix it, right?

Alissa Jerud  27:18  
Yeah, just to give them permission to feel that way, right? It's hard as a parent, and I think there's this other piece too, of like, day in and day out, your kid is just like, seems like a completely different person. They're not willing to talk to you at all. Think it's worth it a moment of time where they aren't especially dysregulated to check in with them. You know, I can't help but notice that you seem more withdrawn. You're spending a lot of time in your room recently. I just want to check in to see how things are going for you. If there's anything you want to share with me, and if they say no, leave it at that, but let them know that you're there, like you know. I want you to know I'm here. If you ever do want to talk, I've been trying to give you space, let you have that time in your room, and please know My door is always open if you ever do want to chat with me.

Scottie Durrett  28:06  
I love that. I love that, and so let me just make sure I heard you correctly. It's not in the moment when they're slamming the door. It's finding a time when you feel like, Oh, they're you know, they're eating their corn flakes and they're feeling or we're on the sofa, just hey, but not in that moment when they're charged

Alissa Jerud  28:23  
Exactly yeah. Some parents prefer to do it, or kids may even prefer, like in the car, where you don't have to make eye contact, or you're on a walk, or Yeah, or yes, they're eating their breakfast. Maybe you're on the other side of the kitchen making your breakfast, and you can kind of just throw it out there for them to share if there's anything going on, because sometimes, you know, maybe there's a really big problem they're struggling with, and that's part of why they're kind of shutting you out, and it might be helpful to bring you in, and then you might be able to troubleshoot with them. Other times, no, it's just like you said, the hormones are raging, and there are lots of things going on in their life that they don't need our assistance navigating, but that's going to lead to them kind of maybe acting out a little more than what

Scottie Durrett  29:04  
it's really helpful though, too. How you explained it, it's, you know, it's motherhood, feels so personal, but a lot of the times it isn't, and it's hard to like, you have to talk to yourself and say they also had a day that has nothing to do with you. And I know you are like you want to talk to them and you want to be included, but they just want to be left alone. And that doesn't mean they are not choosing you. And I think that's that hard moment, almost like you said, practicing not fixing it. It's like practicing remembering that it's not always about you, and that's one of the hardest things that I've had to learn about motherhood. It's like the least personal, personal role in the world. It feels so personal, but a lot of the times it isn't, you know, and that's that's hard, right? Because you have to be a tough detective, but soft landing when they need it, you know. And it's more than ever. You have to regulate yourself so that you can adjust to be. Do you have any tips on like, how what? I know me when I am feeling anxious, I've learned that grounding and movement and music movement really helps me a lot. I can just process that, but it's taken me a lot of practice and time to figure out how that has helped me. I don't, you know, don't always mean I have to go do a massively hard workout. Sometimes just walking to the mailbox and like flapping my arms like a bird helps me so much. But what are some other things that just can if a mom is feeling like she wants to fix it, and she's standing at the door and he just slammed the door in her face, and she's about to start crying or yelling or just wants to open the door, what are like, two or three things that she could try instead that will help her process that anxiety and just help her channel it.

Alissa Jerud  30:48  
Yeah? Well, I think it depends in part on whether is it anxiety or is it a different emotion than a mom's feeling.

Scottie Durrett  30:54  
Okay, good, yeah. Maybe I'm generalizing Yeah, yeah, whatever she's feeling, yeah.

Alissa Jerud  30:59  
It really depends. So I get into this a lot in the book, but knowing the emotion can help to guide the intervention and do so again, if you think about anxiety, oftentimes, the urge is to try to avoid that anxiety in some way. So, like you know, to want to try to knock on that door again, to talk about it with your kid. That might be an example. If you're feeling really anxious, you want to try to solve it. Try to solve it in that moment, even though that might not be the best moment. So in that moment, I would suggest not trying to solve it, not and really, for me with anxiety, the thing that I actually encourage most of all is not trying to get that anxiety to go away in any way. So if you were, if you were if it was time for you to go out and go for a run, go for that run, but not as a way to reduce anxiety, because those kinds of behaviors, when we try to do something to get rid of anxiety, it may work in the moment, but oftentimes in the long run, they don't help us learn that we can sit with that anxiety, we can tolerate, that we don't get a chance to even see that. Oftentimes, if we allow anxiety to be there, it may even run its natural course. And so I might, for instance, let's say you're worried that, like maybe your kid's having a hard time at school. I might actually suggest just accepting that possibility, acknowledging that, leaning into that idea, you know what? Maybe they're having a hard time. Hopefully they'll open up to me, but I'm going to just accept that as a possibility, and then I'd say, go about your day, right? Whatever it is that you need to be doing in that moment, if you need to make dinner, if you need to get some work done, if you were going to go for that run, do whatever it may be, while letting that thought that, you know, maybe they're having a tough time at school buzz around, not trying to fix it, like, Oh no, I'm sure everything's okay. Or, oh, who can I talk to to figure out if they're having a hard time, right? Letting it be there for anxiety, for, let's say it's anger you want to, like, scream at your kid that or punish them because it's not okay for them to slam the door in your face. I would suggest thinking about often, knowing, keeping in mind that oftentimes anger comes with like these, these intense physiological sensations in our body, maybe our hearts racing. We're feeling hot and sweaty, right? Our muscles are tense, and so I think about then doing something that might help you to not to kind of cool down the temperature of that anger so that you don't do something you're gonna get regret things, one you can act opposite to that anger, which is, there's a skill called opposite action, which is really about noticing what's the urge that comes with that emotion. Now let me do the exact opposite. Right? Sometimes the urge with anger is to fight, so let me gently avoid in that moment. I'm not gonna right now. I'm not gonna fight. I'm gonna gently remove myself from the situation. Maybe it's to say a really kind word quietly through the door. I know I love you. I know you're upset right now. I love you. I'm here if you want. And then you know, the other idea would be to do something to cool the physiological arousal in the body, right? So I go through a set of skills called the care skills in my book,

Scottie Durrett  34:05  
yeah, yeah, I love that. It's really, you know, and it's a good reminder. Well, one, it's, it's a, really, it's a tough education, right? To let the truth be, let it be what it is, you know, because I think it's just the habit of all of us, right? We're trying to, we think we're trying to fix it for everybody, but we're really trying to make ourselves feel better, right? But I, you know, I really appreciate what you just reminded us, like, we're allowed to go on with our day, right? We're allowed. We're still us, and we're still we were still fine, you know, like we, like we were, had a whole day going on, and that's okay, even if they're having a tough day, and if we are continue on with our day, there's something really special and beautiful about that, right? Because it means we're taking care of ourselves, right?

Alissa Jerud  34:50  
Yeah, and I would say in general, even, even, let's say it's our emotion that's really intense in that moment, right? Still going about your day, doing the things that matter to you and that are. Important to you that is one of the healthiest things we can do for ourselves, because then we're not letting you know the emotion if we're feeling really sad, the emotion of sadness usually leads us to want to withdraw and to, like, curl up into bed and, you know, shut out the world. And so instead, no I can learn I can feel sad, and I can go about my day anyway, and that sadness doesn't have to take over. And so I think it's both helpful for our kids, but also probably even more so for us to learn we can let those feelings, those unwanted feelings, tag along for the ride, still do all the things that are important to us.

Scottie Durrett  35:33  
I love it. I think it's great because I similar to what you were talking about with your own kids. You know, today you could have pushed yourself and gone outside and done what you thought was right. You're not feeling good, but like you're it's, there's, it's like this beautiful way that we can dance and take care of ourselves and coexist and not necessarily, I guess, abandon ourselves, abandon our emotions, and let them see that they get to see that they have their own emotional experience, and we're continuing on to live our life. You know, it's nice also for them to know that they are allowed to have their feelings and we're going to be okay too, right? Like that we're it's we can still live, even if they're upset or sad, and that we are going to be okay. And I think that's a really important lesson, right? Yeah, yeah.

Alissa Jerud  36:19  
I think a lesson that maybe not all of us got when we were kids, right? That like, yeah, so what kind of eggshell to make sure to not bring up an unwanted emotion in our parents, right?

Scottie Durrett  36:29  
And I mean, that is hard. That is a very heavy thing to carry around as a kid. And I don't think any of it was intended. None of it is intended. But it's just, it's a, it's this, you know, that's what I joke when I say that this should have been handed out at the hospital, but there's just, you know, there's, there's so much information in our bodies, but there's just such a lack of education around it. I mean, you went to school for this, you know, higher education. You've decided to become an expert, and you've written books on it, you have patience so you've become, you know, further and further educated, and it's wonderful that you're sharing it, but if we don't know it, we don't know it. And I think that's such a miss, because our bodies are so wise, and they are trying to communicate with us all the time and guide us and help us. But this is, this is a very, this is a huge puzzle piece I believe missing in I in parenting and life navigation, and I'm having to seek it out myself, you know. And I wish this was better shared, like, why can I wish teach me how to balance checkbook, do my taxes and manage, you know, manage my emotions. I didn't need to learn the Pythagorean serum. I just didn't. But whatever, I mean, there's so much good stuff in here. I I have halfway through right now, but let's talk a little bit about like, if so there's you talk about acceptance, and you talk about when things are going well. You know, I think a lot of times what we're always striving for is things are going well, and when things are not going well, we think we failed, you know? We think that that world is falling and just we're always chasing to try and get back to when things are going well, but going well. I think there's you talk about, there's that's also a beautiful opportunity, right? Don't just fall asleep when things are going well, right? Like you talk about, like, this is a great time to like, connect and to grow and to like, really, like, this is beautiful. Like, this is when we're calm. This is when we can actually, like, you said, have those conversations like, I'm here, I've noticed what's going on with you. Talk about that. Because I think when things are going well, people kind of turn on autopilot, and they start to focus on other stuff. So what's the benefit of connection when things are going well? And how can moms use that also as a opportunity?

Alissa Jerud  38:51  
You have great insightful questions. I think the big thing that I would say, I'm actually going to kind of be a little long winded here, and start where you started initially this conversation, you were talking about your own experience as a mom, thinking you could do it all right, you could get everything done. And it doesn't matter if you were in pain, as long as your kids weren't in pain, right? And I think when things are going well, sometimes we think that that's in part because we're doing everything right and we are keeping our kids happy at all times. We are optimally entertaining them. We're playing with them every spare second we have, and that's why things are going well. And I would say, yes, that might work for a little while, but it's probably not going to be a very effective long term strategy, and it's going to need to burn out for us as parents, and I think maybe to our kids getting, like, kind of learning that the only way they can play is with us, by them, by their side, right? And so I think as parents, we can see those moments where things are going well as an opportunity, yes, for sure, to connect. But I'd say in like. Bite size amounts. Take a few moments to drop in with your kids. So if you have for parents who are listening, who have younger kids, drop in and just watch your kids play for 10 minutes, right? We could talk more about how to go about that. But instead of, like, feeling the need to let me show my kid how, how this new toy that I got them works, and like, let me suggest this next game that we're going to play together, like kind of take some of that pressure off of yourself. Just drop in there, observe your Whoa, do the things that you got to do right? Because part of what actually makes us more vulnerable to painful, unwanted emotions, to acting in ways that you know we don't want to act, to letting those emotions kind of dictate what we do or don't do is when we are vulnerable, like we're emotionally vulnerable because we haven't met our basic needs. Maybe I'm not getting enough sleep, I'm not taking time for exercise or breaks, nourishing my body with healthy food, right? Like I'm not prioritizing my own needs because I'm so focused on my kids. And so I think if we can see those moments where things are going well is an opportunity to actually step away a little bit. Yes, connect for a few moments at a time here or there. Connect during moments where, like, you really need to be there, when you know when your kids in the bath, or when you're at the dinner table together, maybe the other times, use those moments to fill your cup, to get your other work done so you're not up until 3am that night trying to, like, catch up on work emails or things like that.

Scottie Durrett  41:24  
Love it. Love it. That is so true. Also, what you just said, things are going well because of, I'm holding this and carrying this. I love that kind of, let my let my kids show me what they're capable of. You know, it's like, we're also, like, it's, it is that pressure, that's, I love that you call that out. That's amazing.

Alissa Jerud  41:47  
I love it. And I will note that. Like, if you're used, if you're a mom who's used to being with your kid, 24/7, they may not like the shift at first. And so those, those moments that otherwise would have gone really well, like, may not look so pretty for a bit your kid, mean, in some way that you're not willing to, you know, be on the floor with them at all times, or, you know, to do something with them at all times. And I'd say that's where coming back to knowing that you're not responsible for your kid's feelings. Like it is okay for your kid to be upset, and it's okay for you to do what you need to do to meet your own needs, knowing that in doing so, you're actually going to be helping your kid. Your kid's going to learn to better navigate their own unwanted emotions. They're going to learn that you trust them to be able to do that, and they're going to also see you model for them taking care of yourself, right? So again, it's easier said than done, but I think it's important just to keep that in mind, that it's okay if your kid isn't a huge fan of this shift. If you're pivoting away from spending every moment when things are going well with your kid,

Scottie Durrett  42:47  
it's actually and that's the preemptive to saying no when they're asking to play soccer and lacrosse and all those sports, right? It's like being able to get comfortable saying, I know what's best for us, even if it's going to make you uncomfortable for a minute in the long run, I won't be burned out. In the long run, we won't be racing from place to place. It's like knowing that and that, you know, over time, they will trust you. It's like innately, you know. It's just, it's a beautiful conversation. I think that's it's great advice, because I think you know, when you become a new mom, there's so much insecurity, and there's just you don't know what you're doing, and you don't know what you don't know each kid is different, and so you're just trying to throw spaghetti at the wall. And sometimes, like you said, to feel better, you're just like, I'll do it. I'll do it. I remember, gosh, I remember just saying, I don't even want to tell the babysitter, because it's just easier if I do it, it takes less time and energy if I put him to bed, because it's going to take more energy to explain it. And I remember my husband, he's so rational. It's so annoying. He would come in and just be like, it's okay if it's different. It's okay if their bedtime routine is different than how you do it. And that was so novel to me. I was like, it is, like, they can have a different bedtime routine than how I do it. You mean this, they will fall asleep if they don't go to bed the way I do it. And they just, like, all those moments, you know, it just, it kind of just relaxes you a little bit. And they do, you know, the earth keeps spinning, but it's hard, you know, like you said, it's hard. And I think just even admitting that it's okay if it's hard, it's okay if it's uncomfortable, but that's, it's great. Oh man, this is so good. You have so much. We could talk for hours and hours. So where can everybody find you? I mean, I will put all this in the show notes, but where can everybody find you if they want to connect with you and

Alissa Jerud  44:26  
learn more about you? Yeah, so they can go, go to my website, Alyssa jerry.com I am sort of on Instagram, so they can also find me there. It's the handle is emotion savvy doc. And those are probably the two

Scottie Durrett  44:39  
best places, perfect. I'll put everything in the show notes and the link to your book. And this has been amazing. I i You know, it's questions will probably come up, and I think it's great for them that we didn't even address everything, because I think there's just so much that might even be bubbled up for them. And I highly recommend that they just reach out to you and go grab the book, because there is. A lot of information. It is kind of a manual, right? Everybody can kind of understand what resonates with them and what speaks to them in terms of, like, obviously, I have a lot of anxiety. That's the word I kept using over and over and over again. But you know, more than anything, what I love that you're doing is just talking about stuff that hasn't been you're just letting this become normal. You're just talking about things in a way that's making it more comfortable so that people hopefully will feel more comfortable talking about how they feel too. And then if we talk about it as moms, then our kids will feel more comfortable to talk about how they're feeling too. And just think about that like That's incredible. So Well, thank you so much for braving the storm and showing up and writing your beautiful book and sharing everything.

Alissa Jerud  45:44  
I really appreciate it. Well, thank you, Scotty, it was so nice getting to talk with you.

Scottie Durrett  45:51  
Hey, Mama, thank you so much for listening before you dive back into the beautiful chaos of your life. Please take this with you. You're doing better than you think. You are not alone, and you do not have to do this on autopilot. If this episode helped you in any way, please share it with a mom who needs to hear it, because we grow faster when we do it together. And if you have a second, leaving a five star review helps momplex reach more mamas who need this kind of real talk and support. If you want more support and guidance or just someone in your corner. Be sure to visit scottyderette.com to learn more. Get in touch with me or dive deeper into this work until next time. Mom, Trust yourself, trust your gut. You already know what to do, and you are exactly the mama your kids need. I love you. I'll see you next time you.