April 17, 2021

Allen Sutherland: Understanding Canada's Indigenous Peoples

Allen Sutherland: Understanding Canada's Indigenous Peoples

Knowledge Keeper Allen Sutherland talks about how to understand Canada's Indigenous Peoples though shared history between Indigenous peoples and European settlers. It is a story of cultural disruption and missed opportunities. He shares the difference between an Elder and a Knowledge Keeper in his culture, and how the Creator gave him a journey to become a Knowledge Keeper. He talks about the relationship between life and essential skills which are used constsntly day to day, the importance of the past and the strength we have when we stand together.
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Knowledge Keeper Allen Sutherland talks about how to understand Canada's Indigenous Peoples though shared history between Indigenous peoples and European settlers. It is a story of cultural disruption and missed opportunities. He shares the difference between an Elder and a Knowledge Keeper in his culture, and how the Creator gave him a journey to become a Knowledge Keeper. He talks about the relationship between life and essential skills which are used constsntly day to day, the importance of the past and the strength we have when we stand together. See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information. See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.


This podcast was recorded on the ancestral lands on Treaty One territory, the traditional territory of the Anishnawbe, Cree, Oji Cree, Dakota, and the Dene peoples, and on the homeland of the Métis nation.

This is Humans, On Rights. A podcast advocating for the education of human rights.

Here's your host Stuart Murray.

My guest today is knowledge keeper Allan Sutherland.

Alan Sutherland is a facilitator, a storyteller, heritage cultural interpreter and First Nations engagement officer.

He's a spiritual adviser also the Earth Lodge Keeper at First Nations treaty to Territory.

And that's just touching the surface of what he's done.

Knowledge Keeper, Allan Sutherland welcome to humans on rights, I'm glad to be here.

So Allan one of the first things that I would love to get a sense of is what is the difference between an elder because we always hear about elders and a knowledge keeper.

What's the difference we live in modern times and then especially with the onset the social media.

So it you get instant comments on who's an elder, An elder traditionally is one who has been going through life no matter what their background through life and you accumulate all that experience and traditional type elders and I'll say tradition because they lived the life of a good life of a good person and the community recognized that even if you had a difficult life, but you found a way to get through that you become very wise because of the experience.

So elders are are lifted up in terms of they get a certain age and they're highly respected for that knowledge and the community honors elders.

What happened over time is that, you know, in the in this history that most Canadians are starting to know about is that the government has done everything it can to assimilate indigenous peoples and the process have taken away those traditions.

There's knowledge of these elders that has that knowledge to transfer from one generation to another was interrupted by any residential school.

So the rejuvenation or they are bringing back those traditional ways started off very slowly.

In 1951, the indian act was rewired that you can practice this at one time and you couldn't, it was against the law.

Yeah, you couldn't, you couldn't gather, you couldn't even go and harvest medicine.

It was, it was a lot now in 1951 to revise it to allow freedoms because of the pressure of Canadians that fought with indigenous veterans and the great wars that essentially awakened Canadians says if they were good enough to fight for us, how come we're we have to send them back to reserves and to be locked up under that indian act system.

So there was this pressure to get rid of the indian act.

That's another story.

But everyone did have not have, I did not want to get rid of it, which gets into the history that I talked to a lot of groups.

So they revised it to accommodate Canada is one of the founding fathers of the United Nations and human rights, but in their backyard they are violating human rights, right, Especially genocide.

As it was drawn up.

What did Geneva called genocide Because the Indian residential school was existing all the way, even up to 1996, when you forcefully take Children away from from one race and to be handed over to another race was one of the lines of genocide.

So anyway, there was tremendous political pressure to to get rid of the indian act.

But they didn't, they revised it to give some freedoms.

Now getting back to the question of yours, it was slow in coming because if you had many generations of taking Children to be disrupted in their culture and their worldview and then along the way it was illegal to practice medicine.

So after a while, most communities have lost this this way of life and slowly come back and uh when you have nations gather like POWs the gathering of nations.

It started slow in the 60s, as I remember and then it started developing more in the 70s.

But what was critical in the 70s was a lot of these traditional ceremonies went underground.

It had to to protect it and doing so, they were very strict on who can get access to those teachings and they were very strict on that.

Those elders at that time got together, the traditional ones, the ceremonial ones are elders in general got together in Winnipeg and they were concerned that our young people have lost their language, there's no way to draw him into the logic and open up the logic and but they can be drawn in to learn this way of like so they agreed not to be such, but they also remind the other that everybody on earth is part of the creator's garden and it was never meant to be a secret society.

Is this, that colonization and religion like the Jesuits have forced the people to go underground to protect it.

Now it's time to share.

So it started slowly, slowly, you got elders teaching these traditions and and give these teachings and one of my mentors and and he's still, my mentor is still around is jules LaValley.

No, he taught me a lot of things when I first came to win it and I have had many other teachers sensitive, so he would be called an elder and those that teach these things were called elders.

But what happened though is that as young people start learning these, these teachings, they weren't teached properly all the protocol, you know, the ethics essentially if they don't have a teacher or minister, they're essentially going on their own, they're going on their own.

And and it was very prominent that there was a lot of these ones that are describing themselves as elders have came out of the Rockwood stony mountain because they spent a few years getting involved with the teachings of those elders, we went through the ceremonies like sweat lodges and they might even picked up a pipe, but they're not formally, they still have to do a lot of healing for themselves, so they weren't properly instructed.

So the term came from, oh, not too long ago, it was about 15 years ago, maybe roll 20 that they were calling them popcorn elders, popcorn popcorn popcorn elders because it just popped up.

So after a while there are those that are legitimate and those that are introduced themselves as elders, it was getting confusing.

So a few years back, people says, well everybody is going to be an elder, that's a given.

And when it comes to those healing council, that's what we call, these elders are part of the healing council, is that they're endorsed by other elements from the community and they essentially say you're an elder now, so you can and argue, even if you feel that you're so young, you cannot, okay, it's such an honor, it's an honor, and that's how it usually works, then there's gonna be uh elders that are gonna still struggle with life if they're addicted to something or are they already end up occasionally hurting people or hurting themselves?

They're not with, with role models.

So even I came up with a way of describing it as uh we're all gonna be seniors, right?

And those are seniors just to help with the idea of what is an elder.

So like, again, an elder, most of your life experiencing life the hardships of life but but as a result have have achieved wisdom.


Knowledge Knowledge Knowledge keeper is is a term that's been used now especially for those that are young.

I have been called the Knowledge keep Perfect because I haven't achieved as an elder, I haven't, I haven't been, I told I was another until recently in the last few years.

That was the easiest term to to say those that have traditional teachings or the gifts for those that practice killing those that walk the talk, they live their life, they are role models and they are supported by the community.

So they would say you're you're a knowledge keeper, the keeper of the guests.

So this way you can develop yourself to grow to be that knowledge keeper.

So that's why these days it's more important to acknowledge the traditional knowledge keepers then just say a blanket term of elder right?

The traditional laws keeper is mentored.

Okay but you can also go through the path of picking up your culture again by going through all the ceremonies.

And if you've gone to a Sundance you commit yourself to that A very sacred ceremony of four years.

I'll just quickly describe what that is is that you gave tobacco commitment that you want to be a sun dancer for whatever reason it's mostly for healing of oneself, healing your community, your family and community and healing the world.

Okay So it's it's four days and four nights without any water or any food and you dance from them when the sun is coming up, when the sun goes down, you're focusing on a tree of life.

So you're committing yourself and prayer.


And alan, let me ask you, is that something that is available to both men and women?

Both both both can do a Sundance together.


And and and because like I said before and creators garden, it was never meant to be closed off society even with ceremonies that we have, all peoples that have joined, even other religions have joining a Sundance and it's not just for a bucket list and check off if you're committed to your spiritual development and to learn more about that.

This is the highest form of the ceremony.

So when you go to your four years then you can pick up a pipe, you can you can do other ceremonies like a sweat lodge and you might even find your your gifts that you can have for like to help others.

So, so that that's another way of saying, okay, I'm I'm getting on that path as a traditional knowledge keeper.

Right, right.

And we call it the red road, we call it story, what's that you call it?

We call this way of life.

The red road of living the life of the and the life of your ancestors.

But it's it's the road that is long and narrow and along the way is that there's temptations and there's life distractions resolve the blessings but to truly be on that long and narrow role of the red road just to know who you are and to know where you're going and and and it's neutral.

It's mutual in the fact that that's what a healer is.

They don't prejudge, they don't judge, they don't say oh you should have been doing this.

None of that.

It's basically when you do, when you go on this road, you're committed to not only to your development, you're still coming out your spiritual amendment that you're healing development, but the purpose is to help others.

So you have to be neutral.


So that's the that's the red road.

Yeah, the red road.

So alan when you have now you're a knowledge keeper and as you said, somebody has indicated to you that you you are an elder.

But we're talking about you as a knowledge keeper for a moment.

What what are some of the challenges that you've had on your journey to become a knowledge keeper?

Well creator, I knew my purpose in this slide and he says go ahead and experience life like we all experienced life.

We all had our good times alright?

Already developed a career, right?

But then the creator says well you know fine, that's good and dandy.

But remember why you came here for a purpose for you, right?

So there was that hugging a spiritual tugging and saying this is what you have to do because where I came in from in my community we didn't have those traditions.

We grew up very christian in my case roman catholic faith and I was very good in terms of biblical history or world history because of it.

That was very helpful to understand how people think in this world and why do they think the way they do?

What is spiritual beliefs in a way that's part of the journey came from that kind of background.

But as along the way I met with elders, that's why we call them elders right?

And they gave teachings teachings what life is by using tools like the medicine will, talking about how to grow personally, how to be grown physically emotionally, all the four quadrants spiritually and such.

So it was a journey but eventually I got more and more into it and because of that I was able to pick up a pipe Mhm but I wasn't gonna use it yet because I was overwhelmed.

I said what do I do with this?

But it was an honor to to receive one.

So it was the beginning of what we call the sacred bundle.


These gifts that you receive are just essentially they're just tools, you're not idols to the worship, they have important meetings to it and they're just tools but over time I was creating my own bundle.

Now I was and I was observing others how they were using the pipe, how they were using their bundle, what are the songs that they're singing?

What are the teachings?

So I was just more of an observer than anything else.

That's part of my, my gifts is I'm a, I'm, I'm always observing, always learning and I have this intuition and how this all fits in.

So that was always been my gift.

But it took, it took an elder to draw me out and I'll share this because this, this is when I honor jewels are valuable and how he drew this up from me, sitting in a circle and learning from an elder, their life experience or their teachings.

So I'm sitting with jewels, the valley and I'm like right next to him And he was the book to go and talk about the seven beautiful values, The seven sacred teachings.

In my case it's called the grandfather.

Anyway, he was gonna start going into it and he looked at me, he looked at the side of me and he said, He says, Alan, do you know the seven sacred teachings and I looked at him, see a lot of things was going on in my head.

First of all, I didn't plan on talking to anybody, right, I was comfortable Mr and that was, that's the way that's the way I like it.

But immediately I knew what he was gonna do.

He's asking me if I knew the seven sacred teachings in my head.

I was imploding.

Oh my gosh, do I lie to an elder, get out of this right.

And that's what is going on?

Because I knew, I knew I knew the teaching so I responded.

Yes, I do, hoping that was it.


And he said good.

Now you teach them.

Got it.


Oh no, no, there's a second wave I'm including inside.

I'm stressed out.

I says, well you're not thinking so much, you're just thinking, I can't remember the teachings exactly.


So I remember, well let's start with one and see where it goes.

The first one was the wolf teacher the grandfather was and I want teaches humility.

So I talked about humility.

I talked about the importance that nobody is greater than or less than that we're here on our journey.

And uh, I still think back, why was it the wolf as later on the same elder joseph valley brought me out of from the world, into the full pack.

Into the ceremonies into this group.

The red road blockers and I was alone.


That was my survivor skill.

Mm mm mm mm mm mm.

And he brought a lone wolf from the wilderness to the world.

So it only makes sense later on that the wolf is a good place to start and and I've been teaching ever since.


And he's still part of my life.

He, along with with his wife Margaret LaValley, we work together because she is a we work on any residential school survivors.

So for me it's a personal journey now I'm in a position where I'm sought after for people that want to hear all this and I'm free to teach it because I believe in empowering a human being mm hmm.

And empowering all of us because our teaching is essentially it's a it's a pall of action today.

There's prophecies that talk about this age of lighting the eight fire and it talks about all the experience that we'll have throughout the ages which came true.

Even crazy horse has said before he died this warrior in the United States that fought against the U.


Army's before he died.

He had a vision of all the people dancing under the tree of life.

And he has seen that there were many races all colors of the rainbow and and they were all praying dancing for the same thing and that is to save the planet right?

No I'm paraphrasing here.

I'm not.

No I appreciate that.

But it's that that's how I I recognize the true knowledge keepers when they're a little bit strict and says you can't do it that way or he says why are you teaching them these things?

It's supposed to be secret is supposed to be ours.

Well they're on their journey.

They have they haven't achieved the overall what it means to be a human being right?

And right now there's a tremendous need to create or not create, but to have the term that's used today for healers as light workers, the Hopi prophecy essentially says there's 100 and 44,000 light workers that are here to save the planet.

And one of my spiritual friends had told me that I wanted to, wow.

So how, how can I get the numbers up for sure.

For sure.

So I start teaching it.

Yeah, yeah.

So alan, let me talk a bit about that because one of the things on your website, white spotted horse dot com, when you go to that website, there's a big headline there that says understanding Canada's indigenous peoples and that's what I would love to explore a little bit with you in this next segment is where do you start with that conversation?

Well, we have to start by, when I teach it, I start from the beginning origin story, all peoples of the world, including all we commonly call this continent, Turtle Island before Europeans showed up because it's related to our traditional teachings or origin story is that we all came from original human being and then over time they became many languages, many nations and they filled out all the greatest garden, which is the world.

So it's always good to start from there because there is a commonness to it, to the story and it's about reaching out and finding common ground because if you went through a story and no matter sometimes people are very up here in the head, they're they're gonna judge says, okay let's see what this goes.

Or they're just saying, I don't know why I'm here.

Whatever reason we reached out to people's hearts and that's where your spirit is predominantly is is to bring them from their head to their heart.

And the best way to do it is find common ground.

But to break this, whatever this is in between is to tell a story.

So I tell the story about what we see around us and I usually tell the story of that indigenous people because their world view is this when they see the son, they see grandfather's son when they see the moon, they see grandmother moon.

When they look to the sky, they say father sky, they look to the ground and all the life around us.

Our mother, mother all of life is our brothers and sisters.

And we're all connected by the same spirit that we can call energy, that's creation.

So people are saying, oh this is interesting, I'd like to hear more because I'm tapping into your spirit that already knows this.



Is this the human experience the human program?

We will start off by not knowing anything.

There's this blanket that covers us before we we come and walk in this life because you don't take all that experience of the cosmos with you when you start experiencing life.

So there's a veil.

I know one person teach me there was there's an angel that presses down on top of your upper lip there.

That little index.



And you start from scratch.

So now you're born into a family.

You're born into a community.

You're born into this world and your influence in this world.

And the three things that makes you in this life that will shape you.

How you think, how you see the world, What is your worldview is essentially your belief systems who's giving that to you?

What are they giving to you?

Unfortunately if it's not always a good thing in terms of judging our neighbors or you know how racism formed because of a lack of knowledge or ignorance is because they transfer that.

He said, oh those people are that way.

Mm hmm.

And that that's a program for a little baby for a little child as they grow.

So it's it's also your beliefs.

That's the human program.

It's also your ego, your ego in terms of their emotional response, being annoyed, anger, you know, enjoy sorrow and grief all that.

And how sometimes if you don't keep eagle and check the dominate your thinking.

In other words, you've got a big head you think you're the best greatest world, See how far that goes because they don't create harmony with others in your mind.

You might be the greatest, but in the long run it since why doesn't anybody talk to me.

Yeah, but the last one which as a heater like such as myself deals with all the time is fear now, especially fear is introduced when you're a child and nobody is there to explain anything to you why.

And a lot of traumatic events, a loss of innocence and nobody is there to explain you about things like recently I help a fella had to deal with death because he didn't know why he a body was being lowered into a ground when they when they seen that person like days ago.

So so they carry that fear and then they get older.

It manifested to notice because it's unresolved.

It's internalized to internal chaos.

So it's part of the healing is to release that energy.

But not to lose the lesson this time.

You're not triggered anymore.

You let it go.

But remember life is about learning the lessons of life.

So that's part of growing.

So beer is very common how it motivates one's life.

So if those are the three main thrusters and how you think in this group, It is no wonder that the 75% of the population or even higher are always thinking negatively because they think bad about himself.

I think bad about this.

But they don't like the way they look like they don't like their I don't make enough money or they're not educated.

There's always an ongoing record that plays out every day.

And there are people walking around with that.

Mhm But the freedom is to say, I don't want to be burdened with that anymore.

I want to think positive all the time.

So even as a healing for myself, which is always going to be ongoing as a lifelong learner.

But as a healer, I'm always healing myself.

There's gonna be days where you forgot these things going through.

Covid the for the first time I forgot all my strength.

All my teachers.

I was just like anybody else.

I went and I fell into mild depression.

I and then I recognized later on like I took a good break from my work last december and I was just cleaning up some things.

And I looked at my old notes and I forgot about all this.

All these teachings.

Oh, I started organizing them.

I was motivated now.

Recently I do health walks where he says, you wanna walk with me for about an hour.

Because people through this current covid period.

We are not talking each that are socializing with each other.

I got my second, my second vaccine a month ago.

I'm good to go.

But we walk outdoors and basically giving people a chance to reconnect with another human being.

It only brings them healing.

It brings me healing and we are social people.

We are feeling people.

That's what it is to be a human being, to experience life, to experience all those emotions.

But the whole world has gone through a crisis.

Mm hmm.

And and and that's why depression, anxiety and mental health is very it's all around us.

Well, anyway, I don't know if I answer your question or what was the second question?

Well, I just wanted to talk about this notion about you know, the understanding Canada's indigenous peoples and how you have that conversation and how you start.

And we've gone through, you know, the whole issue around the truth and reconciliation commission and the report that the commission did headed up by former senator.

He wasn't a senator at the time Marie ST claire.

And you know that document seemed to have landed in Canada.

And to some extent there's always the sense I think alan when these reports land somewhere that they don't know what is the next step is it does it go?

You know, does it have a lifeline of a couple of weeks?

And then the next issue comes forward.

And so where does this truth and reconciliation commission and the healing that should come from that?

Where where does it go?

And so when I look at your sort of your spiritual journey, you talk about understanding Canada's indigenous peoples.

You know that to me is something that I think we need to spend time as a nation talking about because and listening and that's why I think I was so intrigued when I heard you We shared an event together during anti racism week and when I heard you speak, I thought it was so thoughtful and so graceful in its approach that it had a tendency to draw draw me in as opposed to push me away.

So I, I think that that's something that, that you, you have a great talent.

I don't know if talents the right word, but you have a spirit about you.

And so I think that's the kind of conversation I love having with you.

Well, I appreciate the comments story essentially.

That is my purpose.

When I look back at all these things, I grew up as a historian of oral traditions of my people history that I got wasn't from books, it wasn't going through Electric University, which I went for about one year.

It came from my people being raised by my grandparents and they were advocate visitors to visit everybody many communities And as a little as a child growing up, I'm always with them.

So I heard all the stories so that it became part of me.

I never knew that Later on that I'm gonna be able to teach all of this.

I also was like, I guess that was like a forest gump in a lot of ways.

You know how he was throughout that movie he was and key historical types.


I was kind of like that guy.

I was kind of like that guy by because of uh had people who who are chiefs who are elders that's seen something in me and they and they want to bring me along.

I wanted to teach me.

It's always been mentored that way.

Always been always been mentored by chiefs and I was taken along to all when chiefs gathered and talk about their issues with above trying to fight back and get their rights back.

I was there.

Yeah, I was there in major events like this is where truth and reconciliation really started.

It was the time of OKa.

But that summer 96 I think was 96.

I'm not sure that 1990 that summer was called indian summer because it wasn't just that, that was the end of that summer.

What was happening is because of beach lake.

It was Elijah harper that said no, what is he saying no to?

Well, ever since our constitution was created, they said that we're going to draw in, we're gonna bring in Indigenous people.

The only thing they did there was section 35 is to recognize The three Indigenous groups indian that's Inuit.

And and it also did by introducing the mat into the doorway by saying, we recognize aboriginal and treaty rights as part of our laws.

Now the goal was to go and say how would this, how would they fit into the federal system because they were, they were out in fact, I think and I still believe this.

We as indigenous people are still out that's unfinished business.

The door is still there resist that.

The government is trying to figure out how do we go through the door.

So that's another story I can tell you about First Nations Territory says we're not waiting for you guys, we're gonna do it.

But anyway, there was the succession meetings to work with the chief and the government at the time being correction and all the premiers.

They never took it seriously.

They just run out the clock.

We owe you three meetings or is it four?

I'm not sure we're running out the clock.

They weren't committed.

So it becomes a constitutional crisis because that's it hasn't been achieved yet.

At the same time with what's going on with Quebec because they were gonna negotiate to bring Quebec into the constitution as well because they said we have inherent rights, so not only first Nations saying we have inherent rights.

Quebec is saying we have inherent rights, but how does this fit into our new constitution, 1982 there there was a record to try and bring in Quebec but they didn't want to do anything with the First nations.

So you know, say oh good, no Quebec is is going to agree to these terms but they failed to bring in the fridge nations, there was no plan to meet with them.

So they had to get it ratified.

And by the time he came to Manitoba through registration that it has to be a consensus.

Once Elijah harper Sesno, I'm not supporting this and they started it, it will not pass at all in this country.

Cause I was there, I was a young man, a police officer at the time.

That was his bodyguard.

Right, okay.

But I was involved with all the discussions with the film for kate and assembly, Manitoba cheese and Elijah harper and the death threats that we're going to everybody.

That's why we brought it.

I was a police officer and I was a bodyguard, but I've seen it firsthand.

Mm hmm.

But what created was a solidarity in this country and it happened In 1969, It happened again before the constitution and it happened, it's happening again in terms of indigenous people are blockading everything right to blockade the roads, the railroads, hydro lines tampering all that stuff.

But they essentially shut down the country for about a day or two.

Now, imagine if the whole country was shut down and then nothing was moving in terms of transportation on me.

It costs a lot of money.

And that's the one thing that government will pay attention to is that if this affects my pocketbooks, you got my a tattoo that sparked the activism the same.

If we cannot negotiate, then we're gonna have to do something else to the attention of Canadians because this is Canadians problems, not the government doing doing this.

It's Canadians that don't know eight and Canadians need to know So that summer, no, which happened later on with the local crisis over a golf course that they don't want to develop over there is a sacred burial sites.

So the crisis took place.

But from crisis comes opportunity saying what, what, what happened here?

Canadians were starting to have wake up to the consciousness of indigenous people were before they were out of sight out of mind and forgotten.

Now they have no choice but to look at this.

So, there was a Royal Commission on Aboriginal Peoples Report that was released in 1996.

The problem there with 440 recommendations was, and that's what it was a recommendations.

So it ended up being ignored and put on the shelves, maybe a few things happen.

But closer to home, you have the aboriginal justice inquiry because it was systemic racism with the police force and other agents.

So at least that brought into some self governing initiatives, but it's still ignored as far as I'm.

But all this plays a part in educating general public society.

Because if there's no peace in this country, there's no peace at all.

And it's just a matter of time, something will spark it now.

What's going on across and in South africa is where truth and reconciliation came from their dealing with the same system that was introduced them by the british called the indian act art type because it went around the world colonization and now you got nelson Mandela who has been jailed And for 27 years in a small cell.

He was fighting back for his people's rights and they used colonial laws to suppress oppress people.

So he got arrested.

Now now there was this pressure around the world and apartheid, right?

Mm hmm against this corporation that supports this them in the pocket books as they will.

I remember that it's a forest gump.

So that's why I look at history as a personal because I remember these things quite clearly.

So now the pressure was he was released.

Does he come back as a bitter man?

Does he come back and said I want revenge.

Does he come back and says, oh now I'm going to really organize and create a revolt.

Oh, you had time to think about what life is really about.

So he came out talking about healing in the process, the people, the whole world pressure was you have to give him that right to election.

So he was riding that wave.

He's talking about healing.

He's talking about reconciliation and he became the first president in this process.

So he said we all need to heal as a society.

We all need to work together, but we can't get there without knowing what the place first.

So the knowing of that history and annoying what the role that everybody played government, police force, religion laws has to be taught and learned, but we need the stories of those that were part of it.

No, they weren't gonna get in trouble.

They're gonna be pardoned or get the truth.

Tell the truth why you did that was it that way?

Because you were born as a in a better way of life where you're born in that class system where and then you didn't care for the greater population.

They really want to know the human element of how a person could enforce violent laws or become violent.

So so we can really understand that the nature of a human being.

But it was about learning and the key thing about that learning that reconciliation, reconciliation part is healing no retribution.

So what is the same process that I do as I work with a person or a human being is that I I go and then release the negative energy in a safe way.

But you you keep the learning and then you it's about the empowerment of the here and now and then in that particular case they said that we're all going to be a nation healing won't happen overnight.

That's gonna be the priority and they still struggle and then became perfect.

But the thing is they know that this will take a long time.

Yeah, Alan let me let me ask you a question about seven generations because I know that there's comments that I've heard from from others, some elders who have indicated that the situation we find ourselves here with indigenous peoples in Canada has taken us seven generations to get here and they talk about the healing process taking another seven generations.

Can you explain, what does that look like I, you know, just if you and I are talking if I thought seven generations, you know, they always say that a good mother provides seven generations of a great family and so you, if you take it on the other side of seven generations, I think that if that's the issue, some people would say, well what can I do?

I'm one generation, how is it going to happen?

Another six Explain your view of what that seven generations looks like for me there there is a different way of teaching it.

But the most common is essentially every decision you make is 4-7 of seven generations where you stand into the future, What you borrow is from the past is the our ancestors, you maintain everything for the once and seven generations from now.

That's what's most commonly taught.

One moment.

Just gonna talk about historically.

What was the seven generations for us today is the time of that treaty making.

When, when we both entered into treaties, our ancestors taught long about this.

They had ceremonies that has shaken tents and so forth.

Do we make this treaty?

Do we enter this treaty with these newcomers said no, but because of the values that nobody owns the land is meant to share but they do recognize things were happening around them like the United States with the Union words more and more people coming to the east from Hampton Bay but from the east or from the south and the United States, they know things were changing so they could take the past and that's what everybody was afraid of.

The indian words.

Now the United States, they just went through the civil rights, their civil war.

So they had like a million soldiers so they had to go west.

They couldn't stay home and be a farmer because their their economy was ruined.

So go west gentlemen go west to them as manifest destiny.

They're just gonna they're gonna fight it.

This take you know in Canada, The previous seven generations with Canada was the golden years, getting to know each other.

That was the free trade, I was making treaties that was living together.

But as the the expansion was going westward, The critical year was 1870 150 years ago, what do we share this land with the newcomers?

So they had to think about the seven generations says they probably knew because we're visionaries, We have ceremonies that can go into the future and see how things are gonna go.

They said this is what's gonna maintain alright identity as the original peoples as original nation.

So if you were to look back from now to 1871 and C 250 years.

It was it wasn't easy, it was terrible.

But where we survived, we're resilient because of it.

Now, we're at a point here, what are we gonna do for the next seven generations?

We're not alone anymore.

We're surrounded by all our relatives.

We are.

Canada is a diverse country with many, many people's.

But what are we gonna do for the next seven generations?

That's how people think about several generations.

What are we gonna do for use Children's Children's and Children's to come and and that's commonly taught like that.

But the national obey teaches your influence the power of now.

It's always about the power of now.

The past is what you learned.

You got to know the past in order to know where you're going and the future needs to be created.

So this is how I've been teaching all along with.

Because I remember at least my great grandmother, I remember her, I don't recall my great grandfather but my influence of them, my grand great grandparents is the influence of who I am today.

Of course I know my grandparents, I love my grandparents and in fact, one of the, one of the grandparents have raised me at a time and there are generations that they weren't able to raise their own Children.

Now they get the chance to raise me then I'm influenced by my parents, which I, the majority of my life, I was never part of them.

I went to my grandparents.

So these are the building blocks of who I am.

So there it's also a scientific, this is the code the gene gene code.

You get the D.



But the power is this moment.

So you've got 1234 me now I'm responsible.

They did everything they can for me good and bad.

But they made they made me who I am today.

Now I'm responsible to say you know they had it tough, I inherit their pain inherit I need to do it.

I need to address it so I can be effectively as a parent as a grandparent and then we're gonna work so hard to be in the lives of my great grandchildren because we were told that we lived a very healthy life and that was that was the norm in spite of the illnesses that are plagued our people today.

But I made a commitment that I'm gonna be giving them a good life in our value systems overall.

What life is about is and nobody's yet living the good life.

I'm responsible for the generations to come to ensure that they have a good life.

I'm responsible to ensure that you know what I used to drink water directly from the lake water and from the boat that was refreshing.

But it was it was not long later 96 they have this health warning can't do that.

We gotta blow water.

So something changed.

No I'm not gonna threat over it.

But I'm gonna do what I can, I can't save the older world.

I definitely have the power of now and influence.

So I'm gonna do everything I can to give them the natural beauty my great grandchildren can inherit.

So there's a lot of work to be done.

That's why the work that we do and committing to save this planet and to empower people to wake them up and saying we're in a crisis.

So anyway, that's another story.

But that's the seventh generational influence of a teaching that I teach.

Yeah, yeah.

And so here's a um I want you to to do a teaching for me and I'm going to tell you that at the beginning of all my podcasts I read and I'm going to read what I, I pre record and I want you to reflect with me on the accuracy or if there's something I'm missing or something I should change.

So I start out like this, I would like to begin by acknowledging that I am in treaty.

One territory.

The land of where I'm sitting is the traditional territory of the Nisshin ob cree Oji cree Dakota and Denny peoples and homeland of the mating nation now, is that accurate, is that appropriate?

Well if you were to do not have borders, like a treaty border like a and there and there's five treaties in Manitoba which is a Manitoba is a border.

Then a statement is fighting kate isn't that accurate?

Its traditional territory.

The Inuit people who always gets excluded out of Manitoba, they're part of Manitoba is never mentioned right and they're they're part of Churchill they're part of a three late they're up but traditional territory you won't see the Inuit saying this is my traditional territory.

Same thing goes with the DNA who's way up north, they have their own territory but they won't say this is my territory Here in 21 same thing with ogi Creek, it's more more northeast from here.

So they won't call this their territory but who would call this their territory their traditional way that they live off the land.

We're going to be it's gonna be the cree it's going to be the quota, it's gonna be the jib way and it's gonna be the team.

So all these groups, we're living off the land in this territory before Making the entering of 21.

So once a treaty was made it's just like free spring everybody stopped this is who are the nation's within treaty one territory.

Now what happened over time treaty to is very shortly miss made and and they'll have more like a different people to acknowledge 23 More in Ontario.

They'll have whoever is in that territory then you got treated 45678 - 11.

So that makes the heart or the bulk of Canada.

So when people acknowledge that when they started acknowledging big to do this, I actually think it was it was here in Winnipeg that started that process and I actually think it was the University of Manitoba that started this process Before a Treaty Relations Commission in Manitoba has been around for 15 years.

The reason why I say that because they got it wrong.

So if you're in the first and he says this is how it's done, then everybody copies that.

And then when the treaty racing's games, because the commission comes along and which I'm part of, he says, well that's not accurate but it's been done.

It's out there.

It's been spreading around Canada is not it's not wherever you are, it's being said who are the original people and what are their territories.

So if you're far out east it will be the young conquering people alright, wherever you are.

And there's treaties that's part of your history.

So land acknowledgment is to honor the original peoples that were here because it was through their generosity of sharing that built this country that created even the provinces that which came later.

So the best way to for reconciliation to say as Canadians this is our history and we are forever grateful for the generosity of the original nations and that's a great thing.

Yeah, that is a great thing.

I can't tell you.

Knowledge Keeper Allan Sutherland what an honor it is to sit and listen and learn from you, the great part about what I'm doing here is that I know that we can do this again and and I look forward to it.

I thank you for sharing your your red road, your journey and I thank you for the teachings and I thank you for spending some time with me today on the podcast.

It was it was an honor and I thank you, I thank you for inviting me.

Very important that we all get to know each other.

That's the way the creator wanted, wanted diversity, but he didn't want anybody to judge each other but to reach out to each other and appreciate each other because we all have a lot to share with each other.

So anyway, big wedge and we usually do a saying after we do our ceremonies is a reminder of what we are on this life journey is that we're all relatives.

All my relations, Humans on rights is recorded and hosted by Stuart Murray social media marketing by the creative team at full Current in Winnipeg.

Thanks also to Trixie, maybe music by Doug Edmund for more.

Go to human rights hub dot C A a production of the sound off media company.

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