Bridgette DePape: Climate Justice and Community Action

Stuart Murray  0:00  
This podcast was recorded on the ancestral lands, on treaty one territory, the traditional territory of the Anishinaabe Cree, Oji Cree, Dakota and the Dene peoples, and on the homeland of the Metis nation.

Amanda Logan (Voiceover)  0:20  
This is humans on rights, a podcast advocating for the education of human rights. Here's your host, Stuart Murray,

Stuart Murray  0:30  
what is the intersectionality of an educator and an advocate? Well, today we're going to find out, because my guest, Bridgette DePape is both. She currently is serves as the project manager and climate planner at narratives Inc, where she focuses on advancing equity and climate solutions. And she has just completed her graduate certificate in science and policy of climate change at Royal Roads University. I said, before we started this, Brigitte, I was not about to read your resume. It is exhaustive. If anybody wants to go onto LinkedIn and has an hour, please do so you can read all about the great work that Brigitte has done. But Bridgette, welcome to humans on rights. 

Bridgette DePape  1:17  
Thank you so much for having me. Stuart. I am so happy to be here. 

Stuart Murray  1:20  
So Bridgette what can you introduce yourself and explain a little bit about you know what you're doing specifically? Please, 

Bridgette DePape  1:26  
Absolutely. I am working as a climate planner and project manager at narratives. And as part of that work, we work with First Nation communities in responding to climate change. And so as you know, we're currently in a state of provincial emergency around wildfires. The situation is extremely dire, but I find a lot of hope in connecting with communities who are responding very encouraged to see the provinces set up an evacuation center. So a lot of the work that we do is connecting with communities to build resilience to these types of extreme weather events, because they are becoming so much more frequent with climate change. I'm also an advocate, as you mentioned, I'm part of the climate justice movement. I've been part of that movement for 15 years, or over 15 years, ever since I was a university student. I'm also part of the queer movement, and it's really important to me to be part of spaces who are affirming of our intersectional identities and interests. So I'm really happy that you were you used that word intersectional, because that is a lot about who I am about as well as the work that we do at narratives. It's a lot about storytelling and understanding the unique identities and strengths that communities bring, and really focusing on the voices of people who often go unheard, or whose voices are heard but are not acted upon. 

Stuart Murray  3:04  
There's a couple of things that I'd love you to get your your sort of comment on, because not only are you an activist when you talk about climate change, in other words, trying to bring people's attention to some of the issues we're dealing with, and then you just made a comment. Because as we speak today on this podcast, they're talking about evacuating communities in Manitoba because of wildfires, a lot of them set by humans. I guess you're trying to put at the front end. Brigitte. You're very involved in the education of why we've got to be mindful about climate change. But on the other side of it, you're saying we're also very active understanding when it happens. How do we humanize that tragedy for people? So it's a very interesting beginning and sort of the front end and the back end of things. Let's go to the beginning part, because I think that's where your passion is as a young as a young student, how did you get so passionate about environment, and how did you kind of geek out with your friends at that time? Or what was it like to be so passionate about the environment at such a young age? 

Bridgette DePape  4:06  
That's a great question. Yeah, you know, I have really wonderful memories of bike riding with my dad and my mom and my sisters in the same river forest, and that was a really special time for us. One of my first jobs was actually canoeing down the Seine River in St. Vital, picking up the garbage, finding things like mattresses, hamster cages, you name it. And that really showed me the reality of out of sight, out of mind, this concept that we can throw things away and they're gone, but they're not. So it really showed me the importance of bringing visibility to environmental issues, pollution, water contamination. And I absolutely loved that job, because I got to connect with nature, and I developed this really strong appreciation for the waters around me, the forests around. I find such healing in nature. And I recently wrote a poetry book called Sun compass, and it's all about the healing power of nature. And even in this time of wildfires, I find going outside, walking my daughter to daycare, noticing birds or geese, you know, noticing lilac trees, those glimmers, those moments of hope that nature is so present among us, and it's so powerful and beautiful. And so I think that my passion really stemmed from that connection with the earth, and I think it was taken to a new level. When I was a university student, I discovered the climate justice movement, and I found there was a kinship among other youth who were really passionate about this, and we didn't necessarily feel it was being taken seriously. And part of me wonders, you know, if decision makers would have listened 10 years ago, 20 years ago, 30 years ago, to those voices who were saying, were warning that what's happening right now, the urgent situation of wildfires, that's the realities that we're going to be seeing. If they have listened, that these situations could have been prevented. These are human caused. But I don't want to spend too much time on that, because I don't think it's about placing blame. I you know, I think we're all responsible, and we all have a responsibility to protect the beautiful earth that gives us life every day, the water, the air that we breathe. We need that. And so I believe that there is hope and that we can still protect the Earth and come together and build resilience in this time of climate crisis, because there is still that earth that is giving us life, and it has never been more important, I would say, than now, as we're literally at the highest global temperature we've ever been at, to be taking action on climate change, to be reducing fossil fuel consumption and burning, you know, immediately transitioning away from fossil fuels to clean energy sources. And I'm very hopeful about the changes that are happening. You know, seeing the province's leadership on indigenous led wind energy. I also worked with indigenous clean energy for for some time, and I find a lot of hope in that movement for clean energy, but also with the protection of wildlife, the protection of spaces, green space, forests, and that's part of the work that we do with narratives, is supporting indigenous led, protected and conserved areas, and I have a lot of hope in seeing those initiatives taking shape and really moving forward, things like the seal River watershed, the commitments to that being protected, seeing LeMay forest protected, these are wins, and it's so important to focus on the winds and celebrate those wins, because that's what gives us hope. 

Stuart Murray  8:05  
That's a great answer. And I'm, I'm, you know, love to sort of come back and just get your sort of sense when you're talking about the relationship with First Nations, with indigenous people, in terms of protected spaces, is there, is there a space for conversation? I mean, today, you know, there's a lot of conversation about building pipelines, about different areas, about different developments, is part of the narrative to look at the balance between a protected space, green space, and the opportunity, potentially with permission from First Nations, because usually it's their land that's impacted, to do something that might have an economic development, whether that's from a tourist perspective or from an economic development, say, for example, just being specific, say, building a pipeline. Is there conversation spaces from from your perspective, from what you're doing for having those conversations? Yeah, that's a great question, and I do feel that, like you said, free prior informed consent is absolutely critical. That it's so important that when any project is proposed, whether it is a mine, whether it is a pipeline, whether it's a clean energy project, that there is conversation with communities to understand what their concerns are with that particular development, and whether or not they would like that particular development on their territories. And it is so incredibly important to respect indigenous rights, and we have seen many projects that have have failed to do that. And so I do think it's incredibly important. I would also add that within the context of climate change, pipelines, new fossil fuel infrastructure is not sustainable. We really do need to transition. When you look at the climate science, when you look at indigenous knowledge, we really do.

Bridgette DePape  10:00  
Need to transition away from fossil fuels, and we should have done so 10 years ago, 20 years ago, 30 years ago. But that being said, we do have an opportunity now, and I do hope that we can choose that path, because it is, like you said, it is a balance, and it's possible to have a green economy. And my hope is that we can invest more in those jobs, which are in clean energy, like wind, like solar. We can invest more as well in climate resilient jobs. So when we think about things like firefighters training folks to be able to respond to the existing extreme weather that we're seeing. Jobs in those spaces are emerging, indigenous guardians, land protectors, those are all really important jobs and job creators. I think that it is about balance. It's about balancing economy and environment, and I think the way that we do that is through a just transition to clean energy. 

Stuart Murray  11:06  
So you mentioned the word scientific, you know, let me just give get your again, your thoughts on this Brigitte. You know, there's a sense that in the world today, a lot of institutions, you know, are being questioned. You know, whether it's the judicial institution or the political institution. So let me come to the scientific sort of institution, if I could, for a moment, people always say, you've got to trust the science, and I've just sort of finding that more and more people, and let's just say, for example, with COVID, I know that's not your area, but if I could use it as a bit of a template to talk a bit about science, and you know, people start looking at this, and basically they're looking and saying, Well, we it's, I don't know if it's an issue of trust or something, but they look and they say, well, we're not necessarily going to either trust, believe or take into account what science is saying. And you know, they kind of without saying. So then what are you believing in? If you don't believe in the science, where do you go? But do you find in your conversations with what you've seen over the past years of your advocacy that there is more of an issue questioning the science from people who just don't want to believe it? 

Bridgette DePape  11:06  
That is a great question. Great question. I do see that. I have seen that when there are folks who have denied the existence of climate change, I do see that a lot less now, though, in my experience, a lot of folks, maybe like, 12 or 10 years ago, I would say that I saw that more people, you know, denying climate change existing, but now that's much rarer in my experience, as we see the very physical impacts of climate change, it's everywhere. I mean, I went to the Assiniboine Park with my daughter on Monday, and we saw this adorable three year old who was playing in the sand, and my daughter went to go play with her, and then I saw her, her mom, and I saw elders who were listening to updates from the wildfire in their community in Lynn lake. And it really hit home hard that this three year old girl was having to be evacuated because of wildfires, and this was at Assiniboine Park. And so to me, I am seeing the evidence of climate change everywhere, in every space in a doctor's office, people suffering from, you know, extreme heat and heat exhaustion just last week or the week before, it was like 35 or 36 degrees in May. You know, it's been the hottest may on record. There for me, I'm finding that there's an element of people seeing the realities of the climate change, and that is undeniable. So though they may not have the science behind it, and sort of understanding the greenhouse gas effect and seeing, you know, how fossil fuels are contributing to that, I think that's the challenge is. I think people are seeing the realities of climate change, but the challenge is understanding that that is being caused by oil and gas, and that is human cause, and that is industry. I think that's where there's some pushback that we feel, because it's difficult to change, and we all do need to change to a certain degree to be able to transition to a clean and just society. It was really meaningful for my family to take part in the live Net Zero challenge recently with Canadian Geographic to look at what can we do as a family to reduce our own emissions so things like, you know, getting a heat pump so that we're less reliant on natural gas, or going from like, two gas powered cars to one electric vehicle. Those are the types of changes we can make. Or, you know, choosing to ride our bikes or walk. Those are, those are all practical things that we can each do. I also think that one of the challenges with the climate science is that it does feel big. It does feel overwhelming. So I think the more that we can really bring in these like personal stories of how each of us are impacted by climate change, I think that that's powerful. And then the science really just backs it up.

Stuart Murray  15:25  
And you did the net zero sort of challenge, which I read a little bit about. What you did there, which you and your partners and your family, it's fantastic.

Stuart Murray  15:35  
Bridgette, what do you, you know, say, When, when, when people look at some of the issues that, for example, when they talk about electric cars, I mean, so on the surface, clearly, it is not run on fossil fuel. It is run on an electric battery. But then if you start to look at that discussion, and people sort of say, Yeah, but do you look at how much energy goes into making batteries? Or if you look in how energy is created or distracted. It's kind of not a net zero sum game. For some people, in their conversation, they would say that, you know, it's sort of like cell phones. People sort of say, you know, wow, they've, they've really saved the world in a lot of ways, because they've connected people. And you say, Yeah, but do you understand how some of these cell phones and the and the child labor that goes into sort of mining, sort of the elements that go into it. And so you can look at it and say, how do we engage in this educational conversation that is fulsome and understanding that it's not about perfection?

Bridgette DePape  16:34  
Yes, that is, that is an excellent point. And I really believe in striving for excellence, not perfection, because, like you said, with electric vehicles, there are huge issues with electric vehicles in terms of the mining impacts. One of my first jobs was working with mining watch and supporting communities who are impacted by mining and water contamination, and that's a very real challenge. I do think that it's important to recognize those challenges around mining, be honest about that, make sure that free prior informed consent is respected in terms of those projects. See if there are ways that water contamination can be addressed, remediation projects, those are important, and at the same time looking at solutions for what you can do within your immediate realities. I do think ideally, you know, we would have more bike lanes. We would have more walkable cities. To me, those are the ideal solutions that we really need to be moving more towards better public transportation, electrification of busses. Those are really critical solutions. But then it's also about looking at your own immediate situation. And what can I actually do? You know, with with a toddler, we do need a vehicle to transport her to certain things, and I would love if we could walk and bike and bus everywhere, and we do a lot of walking and biking as much as we can, and I do think that's really important. But for us, an electric vehicle was the best option. When you take into account the immense greenhouse gas emissions from vehicles. That is the number one source of emissions in Canada is transportation, and for most families, that's going to be your number one source of emissions. So for us, it was a the right move to move from two gas powered vehicles to the one electric vehicle. 

Stuart Murray  18:29  
So you know, the the one part that I I always interested in in these conversations is, you know, I've been to LA in my past life a number of times. And of course, you know, LA's in a valley. It's very evident when they're having a bad air day there, right? Because the smog and the pollution that just exists in the valley, and, you know, that is, I mean, it's something you can see. You can feel it. You know that it exists on the prairies Brigitte, where we have, you know, lots of wind and different things. I'm just looking at kind of, from your perspective, is that importance of that education, of that issue, you know, to the educate people to understand that, yes, we might have wide open spaces, and a lot of, you know, wind, and you look outside and you know, again, just make an exception. When there's forest fires, you certainly see it in, in the horizon, and you see it in in particularly when there's a sunrise or sunset. But you know, the notion that people would try to do a comparison between, you know, the openness of the prairies versus a city that is clearly, you know, the density of it, so you can understand why there would be some pollution there. You know, I guess I'm just looking at for somebody who's an educator and advocate, and I do believe that so many of these issues that we have to deal with today, misinformation is is always, you know, a bugaboo gets in the way. So let's look at it from the other perspective. Brigitte from an education standpoint, how do you see us as a society getting more and more engaged?Engaged, because I love the fact that you brought it down to a single family. You know, you can talk about corporations, and you can talk about all sorts of things. And I mean, but if you look at a single family, what you've done, and you say, this is what we have done, and so your neighbor can do the same, and you know, the neighbor across the street can do the same. How do we start that, that narrative, that educational narrative, on that issue. 

Bridgette DePape  20:21  
What I find, too, is that with climate change, like you mentioned, where we're situated, like in the prairies, and we do have a lot of wind so there's a lot of wind potential, and it is different from certain communities, like in LA or California, with they experienced a lot of wildfires recently. So every community kind of has its own strengths and weaknesses when it comes to climate resilience. But what we are seeing too in the prairies is it is warming faster than other communities. That's something to be very mindful of. That for us, we are seeing extreme heat become more of an issue, as well as right now in a state of provincial emergency, wildfires are a huge issue, and also smoke and air quality. So many of the communities who have been evacuated have been evacuated, some because of the wildfires, but some because of the smoke and the air quality is actually so bad that it's a huge health risk. And I was I recently learned as well that extreme heat is actually the number one cause of deaths in terms of climate risks in North America and so. And we saw that with, for example, with Vancouver and seniors in particular, were really impacted, and people with disabilities as well. So I think it's really important that we take into consideration like equity and and who is most impacted in these conversations. And I think, like you said, it's so important to think about what we can do, because climate anxiety impacts a lot of us. You know, many of us are, like, very deeply afraid of what's happening. I know, you know, there's some days where it's just really tough, and I feel incredibly anxious, and I have found that the way to address that is by naming that and saying, Yes, I'm really sad for all of these people who have had to evacuate, you know, naming that and having that sense of empathy. And I think that acknowledgement is really important. And when I'm talking with families or communities or other parents, I find that there's often a shared sense of that empathy, and it's important to name that and not just kind of sweep it under the rug, but then past that. You know, what can we do to take action? I find there's so much resilience in taking action. It's been so meaningful to be able to take action as a family, involving kids in it, because, to me, we're getting the next generation involved in that net zero life that we would like to embody. And I find there's a lot of hope in that. And at the same time, we really need to see those bigger systems changes as well. Like, you know, I really appreciate working with narratives, for example, getting to participate in tree planting events and clothing swaps, you know, knowing how big the clothing industry footprint is, it's so important to, you know, thrift a lot of my clothes are thrifted. And those types of things really do matter. And the bigger picture, things really matter too. You know, advocating for a provincial wildfire prevention and preparedness strategy that matters more resources into wildfire prevention and addressing them. So one of the things that we're realizing is with wildfires, and I've learned this in the climate science side of things, there's a feedback loop that happens. So with climate change, there's more wildfires that are occurring. They're more severe, they're more frequent. But what we're also seeing is that those wildfires are contributing enormous amounts of greenhouse gas emissions, more than any human caused other types of emissions in Canada that is now our largest source of greenhouse gas emissions. Wow, that is a huge opportunity for climate action is actually in wildfire prevention and preparedness. And it's also, you know, the human thing to do in terms of human rights, it's the right thing to do because these communities being impacted and displaced from their homes, that is really important to be able to respond for those communities. So to me, we really need to invest more resources provincially, federally, in wildfire prevention and response and protecting the boreal forest, which is this amazing carbon sink, and I did this paper in when I was doing my climate science certificate, and it was heartbreaking, because the boreal forest, it used to be this enormous carbon sink, but it has recently. Transition to actually being more of a carbon source because of wildfires. So we really need to be able to protect those forests to be the carbon sinks that they can be and that they are meant to be. So So Brigitte, just on that, just for those that are listening, would say, what is a carbon sink? Yes, that is a great question. So a carbon sink would be something like a tree or a forest, which absorbs the carbon that is released into the atmosphere. So for example, if your your car is burning gas and it's emitting carbon into the atmosphere, what trees do, and what things like wetlands do is they actually absorb that carbon. So it's really, really important that we are able to protect those trees, forests, wetlands, those are taking and storing that carbon back into the earth. 

Stuart Murray  25:56  
 It's a positive for the wetlands to have that. I mean, it's not an Yes, right? Yeah, yeah. 

Bridgette DePape  26:00  
Oh, for sure, it's very, it's a very important, yeah, ecosystem service that they provide. Yeah, absolutely. Okay, yes, okay, no. 

Stuart Murray  26:09  
Thanks for the clarification on that. Appreciate it. Brigitte, you know, just always fascinated about this is such an important issue, you know, I mean, there you are, you, you and your partner. You're raising a young family, so you're thinking about their future. What does their future look like on the planet? And, you know, I have grandchildren, and, you know, think about these things all the time, but I'm I'm often wondering why, and it's I try not to get into politics on this particular podcast, but it's hard not to have a conversation around all of the serious issues that you're dealing with, and we talked about that we're seeing today in Manitoba, and yet, we just had a federal election, and I don't know that the word climate change or anything was even part of the narrative. I mean, you know, so you're looking at saying, how do we how do we get people conversing? And I'm all in favor of somebody disagrees that, you know, fair enough. I mean, disagree with a level of intelligence and understanding and education. I mean, that's fair comment, but sort of out of ignorance, and what happens with misinformation? And of course, you know, we we can't have conversations today when you talk about human rights without talking about the negative impact that social media and internet and all of those elements have had on that so you know, and I love the fact that you've, you've put hope into a lot of your your answers. But how do you feel when we have these national elections, where these, you know, there should be conversations on many things, but let's stick with climate for a minute and that we just kind of whiff at the plate on that.

Bridgette DePape  27:53  
 You know, that is a that is a really great question for me with with the election, I had mixed feelings. What's happening down south is very serious with with Trump, and I am really inspired to see Canada and people in Canada going out and voting because they wanted to see a progressive government in Canada, and feeling like Trump's values do not reflect the values of people in Canada. And I felt incredibly hopeful about that, and that was really meaningful. And, you know, going to things like the rallies for Canada, and I think that it's important to come together as a community. However it is. It is discouraging to see climate, you know, falling off the radar. And I do think that there's an opportunity right now to bring it back. I know that we will continue, and the climate movement will continue, and the public will continue to bring this issue forward. There's so many surveys that show that climate is a concern of the majority of people, and we really need to see that translated in the government policies at every level. We really need to see that being a top priority for governments. I think the challenge is that a lot of the discussion has been around economy, and that is a very real issue, jobs for people. People's jobs being threatened. That is very important and critical. My hope is that we can see this issue then as a way to bring more attention to things like green jobs and supporting local economy, and seeing areas where there's actually a convergence of interests in terms of supporting the local economy, supporting green energy. To me, there's an opportunity to really focus those efforts, to be focused on green jobs. And I think that that's exciting, and we're seeing some more of that, like when we're seeing more, you know, interprovincial trade, more discussions.

Bridgette DePape  29:59  
Around how provinces can support each other with clean energy, and that's really important to see those conversations happening. So I hope that this can be an opportunity to fuel more green energy clean energy discussions. 

Stuart Murray  30:17  
I agree with what you're saying, and I would just share with you that I spent four years from 1984 to 1988 working with Brian Mulroney, who was the Prime Minister of Canada, as you know, and he has, ironically, in many ways, although what he did with acid rain, I think, was incredible, but you know, he has been deemed to be one of the greenest Prime Ministers in in Canada, not by the Conservative Party of Canada, by the way, but, you know, by environmentalists who felt that he was, you know, kind of on a path to sort of do certain things. So, you know, just to come back to leadership on on some of these issues, I think that, you know, anytime that I've talked to elders, they have just a really wonderful, peaceful, but, I mean, sometimes troubling, but a a peaceful view of of the importance of Mother Earth and how they talk about it. And you know, once again, the world moves quickly, and sometimes that conversation just gets passed over. And, you know, to find spaces where we can engage more people to listen to some of the wisdom that there have the ability to pass on. And again, I come back to this notion Brigitte, of the of the the challenge of trying to move forward on an issue that has passion, but the misinformation of it, and how do you how do you combat the misinformation of those that would be, say, climate change deniers? 

Bridgette DePape  31:55  
That's a great question. I'm so happy that you brought elders into this conversation, because there's so much wisdom from elders. And I remember one of my teachers in university, Marcelo Saavedra-Vargas. He taught us to listen to the earth and listen to nature and and what is it telling us? And I actually had an assignment to do that, and he gave me an ear of purple corn, and I was instructed to to listen to what this this ear had to tell me. And you know, since then, I've incorporated that into my daily practices, you know, going for a walk and just noticing the trees, noticing the birds, noticing the air, and what is it telling us? And I think in this context of climate change, when we're seeing, say, smoky air, you know, that's telling us, that's a that's a sign from Mother Earth that things are out of balance. We need to pay more attention, and we need to protect the Earth. And I love, there's a there's a t shirt that I absolutely love, that I've had for, like, the past 10 years. And it was from, from a friend of mine, Jasmine Thomas from the psychos nation. It was words from her grandmother, and it said,

Bridgette DePape  33:06  
if we take care of the earth, the earth will take care of us, and if we destroy the Earth, the Earth will destroy us. And that is very real, and that is happening. And you know, climate change is not some far away thing. It is happening right now. We are truly in the thick of it, in the prairies right now. It's alarming, and so we're all seeing it, and to sort of see folks in a space of denial when it's kind of all around us, I think part of that is the natural cycle of change. Oftentimes, when there are, you know, new experiences and things that come up, a natural response for a lot of folks is like being in denial, right? That is something that that happens. So I think the more that we can connect with people ask them what's going on, often it reveals actually something deeper, and it often is going to reveal actually fear of what's happening and fear for children in the next generations. I think that it's important to engage in conversation and at the same time, what I've learned through activism and advocacy is actually not to spend too much energy on those who are most actively opposing any sort of action. You know, spend your energy there is. It's just kind of a bit of a lost cause. I've found, I have found, and I have learned to be a little bit more strategic. And I think that where we can actually see a lot of progress is by connecting with folks who are, you know, kind of in the middle, who are neutral and who care about this issue and maybe need an invitation to act. And I think that that's a big role that that we play as advocates, that we play at narratives, is having that invitation to folks to act, you know, whether that's supporting an Indigenous Protected conserved area, or whether that is, you know, engaging in bike riding or walking. You know, making that invitation, I think, is, is really important. And I do see a lot of hope in that 

Stuart Murray  35:17  
Brigitte you've gone to as a as a youth delegate. You've been to conferences, you know that talk about climate change. Am I right to say is, is the Paris Agreement, kind of the last, sort of, most recent sort of agreement, I guess, where countries come together? Yes, it just again. You know, one of the things that I look at those gatherings is when they come out and they have, like, an agreement on a court or whatever, they sign something and talk about where they want their country to be with respect to carbon emissions and climate change and not it just seems to me that it's celebrated at a very high level and doesn't seem to kind of permeate its way through Everyday people to understand, you know how, I mean, they kind of look at it and say, Well, I guess the governments are going to do that. And you rather than saying, those of us who live here should take some responsibility, I just find that there's something lost in the celebratory coming together of all these, you know, the world coming together and agreeing on something and then bringing it down to something where people can say, you know, not only do I support it, I agree with it, and it's kind of those notion, I kind of think, with human rights Brigitte, my thing is, and I've got it written up on the wall here, but it's, it's kind of, educate, mobilize, take action. So, you know the action piece, I guess I'm wondering, I mean, I know you have done it, your family has done, and you're passionate about it, but it's, it's, it's, how do you broaden that, that, that Paris Agreement, you know, that everybody sort of celebrates to to the action portion. 

Bridgette DePape  36:51  
It was so um, inspiring and exciting to get to, you know, attend. We went in South Africa to the United Nations Climate Conference, and that was a pivotal moment for me, you know, I heard from people, you know, in the Maldives who are who are losing their homes, you know, because of flooding, and people who are experiencing typhoons. And that was a moment for me that I really wanted to connect with community, to be able to take action. I do think, because we are people living in Canada, that there is a lot we can influence our governments. And I think that there's a lot of power in realizing that kind of taking our power as citizens seriously. And so that's what I found very inspiring with with being part of movements. I have also found, though, like you said, I love that, you know, educate, mobilize, take action. I think that that's awesome. I think that there's so much need for that responsibility of governments, but also taking our responsibility as community members and also our responsibility as employees. I think, you know, there's a lot we can do at the individual and family level. There's also a lot we can do in with our workplaces. For example, narratives, you know, is part of the biz for climate which is super exciting. It's a group of companies across Manitoba who are all committed to climate action. We're also doing capacity building around tracking our own emissions. And so I think that that's really exciting to see that, you know, more and more companies are tracking emissions making climate action plans. I think that's fantastic. I think that we need plans. Climate Action Plans at the family level. We need them at the workplace level, and we need them at the city and the provincial and the federal levels. And I think that we really need all of these pieces to be working together in order to see the action that we need that being said like you said, you don't have to wait for anyone else to focus on what you can control, and that is something that's been really important with our work at narrative. So we work really hard to be a trauma informed organization. And, you know, with trauma, and there is trauma around climate, you know, with that, it's so important to see and recognize, you know, those things that aren't actually in your control right now, the wildfires that are happening aren't in our control right now, but it is. There are things that we can do in our control. You know, reaching out to a friend who's experiencing an evacuation, letting folks know about evacuation centers, asking if there's any way that we can support those are things that are in our control at this time, you know, advocating for more resources for wildfire prevention response. Those are all things that are in our control. I also think about, you know, the queer spaces event, and how meaningful that that was, you know. And it's great to get to meet you there, for sure. And I think that with that, similarly, is focusing on what you you can control. It's great to see, you know, groups like narratives, who are part of the LGBTQ Chamber of Commerce, doing what we can.

Bridgette DePape  39:59  
Create a queer affirming spaces is really important. And, you know, it's Pride Week, and so just want to wish everyone a very, you know, Happy Pride. It's a difficult time, but I do still hope that within that people can find, you know, moments of community, moments of connection. That's what really keeps us resilient, is finding appreciation and building that culture of appreciation in our community and in ourselves and in each other. So I think that that's really a good way forward. Focusing on what you you can control is important, while also knowing what you can influence, not losing sight of that, because we can influence policy, and we are powerful together when our voices unite. I think about, for example, LeMay forest. There was a huge movement around that. It took a lot of different methods, and it was really inspiring to see the leadership of the government to decide to expropriate the land and to protect that land. And so that makes me really hopeful, 

Stuart Murray  40:59  
Just on that issue Brigitte. I'm interested. Why did it get to that point? I mean, I understand the outcome, you know, that has now been saved, and LeMay forest now becomes, it remains a green space, although I gather there's some trees cut down. But, you know, let's look at the positive that it's been it been saved. You don't wonder. And again, I'm not, this isn't a question for you, because you, you know, you weren't part of that decision making. But I guess you look at that and say, you know, it's a bit of a scratchy issue, because you know that it appears as if somebody purchased it and was doing something, you know, as they were trying to create, you know, I'm not, I'm not here to advocate for the the, you know, the developer, but you're, they were trying to build some housing, whether they say low income, you know, it's irrelevant. They're trying to build some housing, and then, you know, they get stopped. And so now the province has taken it over and has going to keep it as green space. And I think there's a tremendous cry of relief from from those people who have been, you know, trying to fight for that. You just wonder, how did it get to that point that why? Where was the, you know, the the hope and the vision for somebody to say, No, this, this is not for sale. And I've had conversations, by the way, just to sort of marry this with Assinaboine forest, you know, that should be a protected space, like there should be no question about it, yet it is still not there. And you look at the system and the process, and I don't think that there's anybody who sees it differently, but why not just put that stamp on it? It is protected, period, full stop. Then anybody that puts their hand up says, Why don't we develop can't do it, not possible. Next question, you know, just kind of move ahead on those things. So there's, there's so much animosity now, and built up between one side versus the other side versus stepping back and saying, We should, probably shouldn't have got into this. And again, I'm being very careful, because I'm not asking you to make comments on the political thing. I'm really just giving you my sense when I kind of read that whole article and thinking, how did we get here? I understand the outcome, and I think the outcome is right for the people. But boy, somebody seemed to, you know, take this and pivot in a different direction completely, and then kind of put a stop on it. So kind of just a ramble for me, Brigitte, but I, you know, just kind of looking at that issue and always trying to make, you know, coming back to the education piece, right, the understanding and where we can go on this. So listen, I want to say that I just want to try and sort of, as the old expression is maybe look at hitting the off ramp on a conversation that I can't tell you how I was so delighted to get to meet you at the queer spaces event because I've heard so much about you. And of course, I know you're your sister, Noelle. You're both tremendous community advocates, and just have nothing but admiration for you. But as we sort of wind this conversation down, Brigitte, I always say, is there anything I didn't ask you that you wanted to have a chance to talk about in this podcast? 

Bridgette DePape  43:56  
Yeah, well, thank you for asking, and I so appreciate that you brought my sister Noel in because I just love her so much, and she's been such a mentor to me, you know, throughout my whole whole life, and it's been really special recently to get to to work with narratives, to work with Sonia, who's absolutely a wonderful mentor to me. And I know that with that, I wanted to express a gratitude to those people, to my mentors, to you, and to circle back to the queer spaces event that was a really meaningful event for me, because I got to share, like some stories of you know, what is queer space? What does it mean to have an inclusive space? For me, when I was having my interview with narratives. I was really nervous about it, and then I saw a pride flag in the window as I was walking by, and it felt really affirming to me, and I felt like this was going to be a good space for me, and it's so important to have spaces that are inclusive for queer community, for diverse. Community members, indigenous folks, newcomers. And it's really beautiful to get to find a home there. And I also wanted to share a little bit about, you know, some of my experience where I was reflecting on what queer spaces are not, what are spaces which are exclusionary? And in my experience, I was doing some solidarity work with Shoal Lake 41st Nation. And, you know, I visited a camp nearby. And at the time, I was feeling like a little bit burnt out as an activist, and I wanted to become a camp counselor as a way to, you know, connect with the earth take a bit of a break. And I was really discouraged when I was told that I had to sign this statement of faith that basically condemns people who are gay. You know, if being gay is brought it up that you had to condemn it. And that was just such a terrible moment for me, you know, I was just so devastated when I saw that. To me, that story does kind of speak to the intersection of of connecting with land and queer identity. And for me, though, the the key message that I really want to bring home, though, is really one of resilience, and it's one of hope. And after that, I was really grateful to get toshare my experience with others and to be part of a movement that's saying you know this is a human rights violation. You know absolutely that that people who are queer should not be discriminated against because of their identity. It's very meaningful to be part of spaces who that are queer affirming, to be part of movements that are making changes, and I think that we are resilient when we come together as a community. 

Stuart Murray  46:50  
Yeah, no. Thanks for closing on that, on that, on that subject. I really enjoyed your presentation at the queer spaces event, and you know that whole event was really, really well done. And, and just, you know, kind of a couple of comments, I mean, Sumie I've had on the podcast, really wonderful, wonderful person, great conversation, great leader in the community. And I was also very fortunate to have Aaron Pollock on, also just who's the architect, and, you know, to really talk about queer spaces, the importance of it. So like all of my podcasts, I always learn something as much as I have learned from you in this one, Brigitte. So I just want to say thank you for finding the time to be on humans, on rights and continued success and all of the great things that you are doing. Appreciate your appreciate your efforts and making this a better community. 

Bridgette DePape  47:39  
Likewise. Thank you so much. Stuart, it has been such an honor and a pleasure to get to connect with you, and I absolutely love what you shared about, you know, educate, mobilize, take action, and with that as well. You know, take care of ourselves, take care of each other, to take care of community. Don't want to burn out either. 

Stuart Murray  46:50  
Exactly, for sure, awesome. Okay, all right, you take care. Enjoy. Thank you. You too. 

Stuart Murray  46:50  
Thanks so much, Stuart. 

Matt Cundill  46:50  
Thanks for listening to humans on rights. A transcript of this episode is available by clicking the link in the show notes of this episode. Humans on rights is recorded and hosted by Stuart Murray, social media marketing by Buffy Davey, music by Doug Edmond. For more, go to humanrightshub.ca.

Tara Sands (Voiceover)  48:22  
Produced and distributed by the Sound Off Media Company.