Melissa Stone: Taking action to Make Homes for the Unsheltered Humans.

Stuart Murray (Host) 00:00:00
This podcast was recorded on the ancestral lands, on Treaty One Territory, the traditional territory of the inishinaabe Cree, Oji Cree, Dakota and the Denne Peoples, and on the homeland of the Metis Nation. 

Amanda Logan (Voice) 00:00:00
This is Humans on Rights, a podcast advocating for the education of human rights. Here's your host, Stuart Murray. 

Stuart Murray (Host) 00:00:00
Homelessness. In 2019, Parliament passed the National Housing Strategy Act. The act recognizes housing as a human right and community organizations and governments to reform housing laws, policies, and basically create a human rights perspective on all of those laws and policies. And it was to involve communities in a meaningful way. I am delighted today to be joined by Melissa Stone. Melissa Stone has a great eye on what homelessness is, and more importantly, we're going to explore what she and her organization are actually doing about it. There's a lot of research on the challenges that homelessness causes, and I think we understand that. Maybe we can still continue to understand more of it. But the important part of I think of our conversation today that we're going to have with Melissa is about what is being done, about it being proactive, being positive in the community. So I'm going to just really sort of take a stab. And Melissa, we chatted a bit before I hit the record button. And you were very, very generous with me to give me a little bit of pronunciation. You are the coordinator of Amoowigamig, and you are also the coordinator of Astum Api Niikinaahk.

Melissa Stone 00:01:52
That's right.

Stuart Murray (Host) 00:01:53
So if I've earned your trust on that, Melissa, let's get the conversation going. Welcome to Humans, On Rights.

Melissa Stone 00:02:00
Thank you.

Stuart Murray (Host) 00:02:01
So, Melissa, before we talk about the specifics of the project, let's get to know you. Tell us a little bit about your background, where you went to school, what you studied, what got you interested in some of the projects that you're currently involved in.

Melissa Stone 00:02:15
So, I am a Manitoban. I was born in Brown in Manitoba, moved to Winnipeg in 2006. I moved here for a job I was working in as a psych nurse assistant. And I had a hard time working in the psychiatric hospitals and decided that I needed to, for my own health, step away from institutions. So I took some time off and did some healing. And then I applied with the Mamawiwichiitata Centre, where I am still currently working in 2008. So I'm going on 15 years working with the Mamawiwichiitata Centre. And I've had various roles being here, working with sexually exploited and human trafficked children. The Mamawiwichiitata Centre has two safe homes for girls and trans, two spirited individuals that are still under the age of 18. So I started there, and then I became an outreach worker with the programs through the Mamawiwichiitata Centre. And I was an outreach worker for twelve years. So I was out on the streets, I met lots of people. I looked for our missing youth and experienced a lot of joy and also experienced a lot of what Winnipeg and our most vulnerable people, how they're living and how they're trying. And so then after twelve years, I decided that I wanted to work more with our unsheltered folks. Because those girls that I worked with twelve years previous were now adults, right? So twelve years doesn't seem like a long time, but when you're working with a 15 year old or a twelve year old, twelve years, they're now adults, right? So I would see them and I still wanted to support them and we still had that really good relationship. So I moved myself over into our Ouija Win program with the Mamawiwichiitata Centre, which the program supports individuals to get their own safe home, right? So I would go out on the street and I would go to the waterfront, under the bridges, to some of the encampments, and I would build that relationship and I would offer them tobacco, and I would offer them the willingness for them to speak to me so that I could support them. Some folks it was right away. Other folks, it took some time, right, because there's not a lot of trust. So I did that for a couple of years and I met a lot of individuals and I listened to their stories and I listened to what they were needing. And I tried to be an advocate because unfortunately, people don't listen to them. There's a lot of stereotypes and assumptions and accusations, et cetera. So I wanted to as best that I could, listen to them and support them. So it was evident that a lot of outreach workers were meeting a lot of unsheltered folks that were struggling with everything, food and shelter and safety. And there was no freedom. And their day to day was just trying to find food, trying to keep themselves safe. So when the encampment started to be torn down, a few people decided as a community that we were going to partner together and we were going to listen to them and we were going to do what folks wanted us to do. So we had a day of offerings to individuals to come to have some food and to write down what they needed. And what came out of that was that they don't want to leave their family on the street. They become family. One fellow said, we really need like our own village where we can still support each other, but feel safe, have the love, have some food, but still have each other. Because a village is all about family and love and support. So what came out of that and listened to what they said was and is astamaphinikina, which means, come sit at our home. And our elder, Charlotte Nolan, I offered her tobacco and asked that she please help us find a name for the village. So she smoked her pipe for four days and on her third night it came to her, and this man was sitting on one of the trees behind Thunderbird House. He said to her, a stumb, which means come. And then when she walked up, she said, apinaki, which means welcome to my home or house, however you wow. Yeah. So that's how we received our official name for the village.

Stuart Murray (Host) 00:08:15
Yeah. That's amazing. So, Melissa, thank you for sharing that. Let me just sort of just come back for 1 second. When you left Brandon, there's a part of who you are you want to help people. If I understand correctly, you were an assistant for a psychiatric nurse. So, I mean, there you are, you're reaching out, you're wanting to help people. Let me just ask you what got you there? What made you want to do that? What was part of your reasoning for wanting to reach out and help people?

Melissa Stone 00:08:44
I will be really honest. My mother also is psychiatric nurse, and I grew up there. She worked at the Brandon Mental Health Center while I was in university. I worked there while I was a student in the summers. So literally, as a child, I was around folks who were vulnerable, and I watched my mom love them and support them and advocate for them. Right. And I loved it. And I always felt like if I could be that one person to someone that may make their day happy or may change the way someone is being treated, that would be good, right?

Stuart Murray (Host) 00:09:40
Yeah. You found yourself, as you say, at some point earlier in your comments, that you felt you wanted to sort of, quote, unquote, get out of sort of an institution and become more sort of at the grassroots level, dealing on people that are dealing with these issues on the street, if you will. So, Melissa, I'm fascinated with the way you went through the process of being a part of an organization that listened to people. And I want to just stop for 1 second. I've used the term homelessness, and you use the term unsheltered. Is that the proper way to make reference to this, Melissa? Because I just think sometimes there's so much stigma attached to names. Are you trying to move away? Should I start using words unsheltered?

Melissa Stone 00:10:28
Yeah. Unsheltered. Or someone who doesn't have their own home? Right. When we're writing our proposals, we have to use their language, and so it's not okay. Right. Because language has changed in governments for a long time, but they are changing, which is nice, but yeah. So homeless isn't like it's like saying they're less.

Stuart Murray (Host) 00:10:53
Right.

Melissa Stone 00:10:55
Folks aren't less. They just don't have their own home yet.

Stuart Murray (Host) 00:11:01
Yeah. No, I appreciate that. So unsheltered or people that don't have their own home. Thank you for that correction. I appreciate that. Melissa, one of the things that whenever I hear an article or read an article or talk to people around the whole unsheltered issue, we see it in Winnipeg in the sense that when you drive down Portage Avenue, there are people that are in bus shelters and they're there for a reason. But for those people that are driving by in their cars and on their way to work from their home to their place of employment, et cetera, it becomes a conversation about it doesn't look great for the city. That kind of sense. We've had this conversation in the city of Winnipeg. Well, then let's just get rid of the bus shelters, as if, for example, that is going to solve the problem. One of the things that I'd love to explore with you a bit more is the notion about listening to those people who are unsheltered versus saying, we've done all this research, we've read all these things, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. And so here's what we need to do versus have we listened to the people who are in the situation that we think that we're trying to help? So let's just take a moment, if you would, and explore a little bit more about how it is that you started to sit down and actually engage people, because trust, as you said, is huge. So how did you engage the trust of these people to draw out what it was important for them, so that they actually knew that there's the old adage, oh, I'm here from the government, I'm here to help you. Yeah, I kind of heard that before. Versus, no, we're listening, and we are going to make a difference, because you are. So tell me a little bit more about that process, please.

Melissa Stone 00:12:46
Well, it takes a long time, I'll be really honest, because of that mistrust. So folks who are living in encampments or in tents on their own, they're constantly being harassed by society. They're constantly being harassed by police to move on. And so there is no trust. So you have to come in, and you can't be I want to be politically correct by saying that you can't be aggressive, right? You can't come in in a tie and a suit or your police uniform, because that is so triggering for individuals, right? So folks who live in tents get tickets from police for camping. There $650 ticket. They have nothing. How are they going to pay that? So anyways, we came in as ourselves, right? We wore our sneakers and we wore our jackets, and we didn't have any, and we were very submissive, but we offered our tobacco and we offered water, and we talked to people like they were people, not that they were anything less than us. That's huge respect. It's just offerings of tobacco or offering a bottle of water and talking to them like, okay, please teach us. We are asking you to teach us.

Stuart Murray (Host) 00:14:27
And Melissa, let me just interrupt you for 1 second. Where would these conversations take place?

Melissa Stone 00:14:31
Well, we would go to the encampment and we would play our music so that they knew that we were not sneaking up on them and going to be like, hey. So we would play our music on our little phones. We would sing drum, and we would go in and just introduce ourselves, offer right away. We offer tobacco, and that's how it starts. But we would consistently, every day go hang out. And like I said, it takes a long time. So it's baby steps. Right. Didn't want to overbear them, if that's a word. We didn't want to process. We were being any type of a threat or another barrier. We wanted them to start inviting us. So it was baby steps.

Stuart Murray (Host) 00:15:34
There must be an incredible variety of ages, variety of backgrounds of people that you're getting engaged with who are unsheltered. Did you find that there was always a common denominator in your conversations with those people?

Melissa Stone 00:15:49
Lots of individuals of every age group who lives without the same home, lots of kids. I shouldn't say kids because I'm old, so I still think that year olds are kids. Lots of our young adults who are in the care of CFS at the age of 18, if they're not in any type of program or have a job or cut off of support from CFS, and so many of them become homeless and unsheltered and don't have their own home, safe home. So that was a huge thing that we saw. We also noticed that there are many men who are living unsheltered.

Stuart Murray (Host) 00:16:45
More so than women, would you say, Melissa?

Melissa Stone 00:16:48
Well, issue with that is women are trafficked and women are exploited, so they're kept more underground. Right. Whereas men aren't or not all men. And then, of course, our indigenous relatives. Unsheltered is extremely high percentage, extremely high. Folks that are coming in from their reserves for medical appointments can't go back because they have to have daily medical appointments, but then they're unsheltered just so many various reasons and situations. Also, our individuals who are in the justice system are let out and dropped off at the Salvation Army. Yeah, we learned a lot. We saw a lot. And it was yeah.

Stuart Murray (Host) 00:17:49
You and I both know that you have, with your background in coordinating for Astum Api Niikinaahk, really, the little village, if you will, that is being put together behind Thunderbird House. Once you understood what it is that some of the people that were unsheltered, what was important to them, what was the next steps? Engaging the actual process of starting to build these, like, design them, get a sense of size and what it might look like.

Melissa Stone 00:18:22
Of course we have partners, and just so you know, we're up and running. We opened up December 1. So the process was we worked with community partners, which included and homelessness Winnipeg, the Aboriginal Council of Winnipeg, thunderbird House, who am I forgetting? Oh, eagle Urban Center. And then, of course, the Mamawiwichiitata Centre and Aboriginal Health and Wellness. Those were the partners that we all worked together to do proposals to provide operational support while I was trying to figure out what our days would look like. So all of us together did this together, begging for money. And then once we were approved, we went back to our lived and living experiential experts, I should say, to tell us and to guide us and to support us on building the village. And then we also have a council of elders and knowledge keepers who also supported, guided, and mentored us.

Stuart Murray (Host) 00:19:43
Yeah. And how did you determine where the location should be for this first project, Melissa?

Melissa Stone 00:19:50
So folks wanted the first village we wanted on Higgins on the waterfront there, across from the old Flower Building. That's where we really wanted it. But the city of Winnipeg owns that property, and they were going to be using it for something, so we couldn't utilize that space. So then our experiential experts said, we need to be somewhere where there's resources for folks, right. So that the community that they had been living in, they wouldn't be leaving their community of friends and family that they've made, like at Main Street Project or asylum or lighthouse. They wouldn't necessarily be taken out of their community. Like, so many had residential school and 60 school were taken away. They didn't want that to occur again. So we asked, of course, Thunderbird House if we could build a village here. And of course, so that's how that all came about.

Stuart Murray (Host) 00:21:15
Well, because the fact is, as you mentioned, Melissa, that you are open and operating as of December 1. So congratulations on that. For sure. Melissa, talk a little bit about the structures and how each individual and I guess at this point, you call it their home, right? I mean, it is their home. So talk a little bit about what is in each one of their homes.

Melissa Stone 00:21:39
We have four accessible units for individuals who use wheelchair or walker or have some mobility issues. So we have four accessible units in 18 bachelor suites. Each person gets their own home with their own key Fob that only opens theirs and can't open anyone else. So it's specifically just for their home. Our lived and living experts wanted to make sure that this was going to be their home and that they were going to be safe in their own home. So we have a lodge, which is where we have my office and a staff office. We have a commercial kitchen, and we have a small clinical clinic room. We have partnerships with Aboriginal Health and Wellness and Dr. Barry LaValley. We also have a huge programming room where we run programs every day, all day. And then we have a cultural room for our cultural mentor to have one on ones with individuals who need it unwanted. And then we have all of our medicines in there, and it's such a beautiful room. And then circling around the lodge is all of the tiny homes. We are 24 hours staffed, seven days a week, 365 days a year, because folks need support. And some folks may not be able to sleep at night yet, so they need support. Then some folks may sleep all day and then need evening. So it was really important that we had the 24 hours support for individuals as they're transitioning from such unsafe on the streets to being here, transitioning into feeling safer.

Stuart Murray (Host) 00:23:51
How, Melissa, do you decide who could become a resident? I mean, you've got 22 units in total, which is fantastic. And I don't look at this to say that you alone have to solve all the problems of the world. You're making a difference in a huge way in providing 22 homes for people. We know that there's many more people that require the kinds of care that you are providing. At Astam API Nikinak, how does it decide who can become a resident?

Melissa Stone 00:24:25
With our partnering nonprofit agencies, we built a small referral form so all of the partners send us referrals, and then it's kind of like first come, first serve, right? So right now, as we speak today, we have 46 people on our waiting list.

Stuart Murray (Host) 00:24:50
46.

Melissa Stone 00:24:51
And we're full.

Stuart Murray (Host) 00:24:52
Yeah, you're full. And Melissa, I know the answer to this because I saw one of your wonderful interviews that you did with the local media, but I'll ask the question, is there a time limit for someone who can stay at Ashamiki Neck?

Melissa Stone 00:25:08
There is no time limit because everybody heals differently.

Stuart Murray (Host) 00:25:13
Is the decision for a resident to say, pick a time? I'm just going to say three years, that during that time there's been a really amazing healing process, that they're becoming more confident, potentially, if that's the right word, about who they are and who they want to be and where they want to go. Would they come forward at that point and say, I think I'm ready for the next step in my journey? And if that's the case, is there still a support mechanism? Because that's still a massive leap to take.

Melissa Stone 00:25:49
Yeah, there is. And I will be really honest. We had a really hard time securing funding for staffing. Operational. We still don't have funding for food. We couldn't find any funding for food. But we do have the funding just enough for the 24 hours staff. So we have two, I guess, positions that I would like to mention, and that is our housing planner. Her name is Donna, and her position is getting folks onto EIA, supporting them with advocacy, because there's lots of barriers with EIA, there's lots of lots of barriers for everything. But anyways, so Donna supports the individuals who move in here because you don't have to be on EIA to move in here and have no income. However, you have to be willing to work towards that. Right?

Stuart Murray (Host) 00:26:53
Right. And Melissa, sorry, just for people that are listening, they may not know, EIA employment, income assistance. Correct. Yeah.

Melissa Stone 00:27:02
Donna helps them with that. And then once folks are ready, like you said, move on. She will support them in finding a safe home and then she will follow them and we'll be that support with them until they plus I don't want you anymore, but until then we support them. Yeah, absolutely. That is huge. And we also do programming on tenants rights and landlord rights budgeting and how you keep pests away. We have so many programs to teach individuals and we've also learned from the individuals some of the things that we forgot that they would like in our program. So it's really been awesome that's Donna.

Stuart Murray (Host) 00:28:06
Yeah, well, again, it just shows you some of the things, the humans that we have in the city, that there's so much caring. I mean, there's so much more to do. I get it. But there's so much caring to talk about somebody like Donna, who I don't know, but as you talk about her, obviously such a pillar for making this all be a success. But it occurs to me, Melissa, that some people may find themselves in their own home in Astum Api Niikinaahk, that they see a stove and they don't know how to use it. I mean, those are just some of the things that so many of us take for granted, that these are just realities of people who are unsheltered and given their first opportunity. So there's so much integration, I'm sure that is part of this process.

Melissa Stone 00:28:57
Lots of grief. We didn't know. This is something that we learned, is that when folks are leaving their family in Encampments, folks are grieving because they're missing their family, but they're also feeling shame by leaving them and knowing that their friends and family are still freezing outside and they have a warm home. Because people who are living on sheltered and don't have their own home are wonderful, loving people. Stewart they're so caring, so humble, and have the biggest hearts. So when they move in here, they feel like they're doing wrong by leaving their loved ones out there. So it's difficult. Right? So we have programming on that. We also do a lot of cultural ceremonies. So we do pipe ceremonies and we have sacred fires. We do some grief sharing circles and shame, feeling shameful, lots of one on ones and lots of folks just hanging out by the fire and sending prayers with our tobacco ties and just asking so many questions. But the folks here are coming together as their own now and supporting each other. So if a person is feeling not so great, they'll go to David, who's our cultural mentor, and say, we need to have a fire so and so. Okay, let's do it. So it's really great that folks are starting to look out for each other here, right?

Stuart Murray (Host) 00:30:52
Right.

Melissa Stone 00:30:53
They still haven't forgotten about their family that's out there, but at least they're able to go and see them and maybe give them some warm blankets or some food and then come back and then have a safe space to release that heavy energy that they're feeling. Right.

Stuart Murray (Host) 00:31:11
Two questions, Melissa. Just is there an expectation? I mean, somebody who's unsheltered, they're not able to afford food, so the cost of having someone come off being unsheltered to now having their home, how did you manage that financial process? Is there a relationship between the individual and their home or how do you manage that?

Melissa Stone 00:31:44
So our construction started right when COVID started.

Stuart Murray (Host) 00:31:50
Perfect.

Melissa Stone 00:31:52
We ran out of supplies and money rather quickly due to the increase everything and then the lack of supplies that we were getting. So we had some time to build really good relationships with the RTB and the RTA folks, relationships with employment and income. So we built some really strong relationships and they were so more than willing to support us in anything that we asked in any way that we could make our village minimal barrier for folks. So we also are in partnership in relationship with the Canadian Mental Health Benefit for individuals. So we built that with that relationship. So it was really sad that we weren't able to open quicker, but it allowed us to build some really strong supportive ships so that we were able to move people in as quick as possible and then get that rent paid. Nothing comes out of their pockets. Nothing. We only charge what the folks receive from whatever they're under. Right? So that could be disability or EIA or CPP or they're working and unsheltered. And then the Canadian mental health benefit they were so gracious to allow us, because most folks, including myself, I'm not ashamed to say we have mental health issues, right? Where it's managed either for myself, it's managed by a doctor. But for someone who's living unsheltered, they don't have a doctor and they don't have the ability to get to a doctor. So some of them are not able to be treated properly and get proper medical. So we built that relationship. So now we have them supporting us.

Stuart Murray (Host) 00:34:12
Melissa, just at the beginning, I think you said that you had this amazing relationship with and it was in an acronym. I hope I'm getting it right. RTB.

Melissa Stone 00:34:20
Sorry. The Rental Tenancy Act.

Stuart Murray (Host) 00:34:23
Okay.

Stuart Murray (Host) 00:34:27
Right. RTB. RTA. Fascinating. I mean, it's amazing. I want to pivot just a moment to talk about another project that you are very much involved in. Again, it was in the news, very much looked at, and I'm going to use the term sort of a public washroom, but it has a name and you've taught me that it is Amoowigamig. And I want you to talk a little bit about that, Melissa. So anybody who's driving down Main Street will see this project, describe it physically, and then talk about some of the elements that you're providing with that project.

Melissa Stone 00:35:09
As well, is actually owned by the city of Winnipeg. And it's a shipping containers high right beside the Salvation Army, in between Salvation Army and Thunderbird House. It's on the Thunderbird House land where we are. And so it's a peer support resource for folks who are living unsheltered or don't have their own homes. There was a very high need, especially before COVID and during COVID that folks didn't have anywhere to use a washroom. And there's no public washrooms in and around here, and the only place to use a washroom is in the two bars that were here. And it was a need. However, we didn't want it just to be seen as a washroom. We also wanted to provide some programming for individuals. So we have our medicines. If someone would like to smudge or are needing some sweet grass, cedar, we smudge folks that come in. We also provide that peer to peer support so that's advocacy maybe with their lawyer, if they don't have a phone, the staff will help them make a call. Or maybe it's getting a Manitoba Health Card. Most folks don't have their own phone, so it's a resource for people who are needing some support but don't have the ability. The folks there also provide positive relationships and build relationships with individuals and offer tobacco to build that relationship. We have water, have some donations of feminine hygiene. We've received donations for like, toothbrushes or even a washcloth to wash their face. Folks don't have much of anything. So it's another really cool project where we're supporting and advocating and building those relationships. To support folks who are living unsheltered, we also hand out pharmacy may it be condoms or clean needles pamphlets to apply here at Mickey Neck. We also have another program within Mumaway called Mamawichita. They'll call them up and say, hey, do you have room for and then they call around also to any of the shelters to see if they have any spaces for an individual if they need somewhere to stay at night. Right? So harm reduction just isn't handing out clean needles and pipes and naloxone. Harm reducing is everything, right? It's from shelter your own home to food to shoes for your feet. It's all of it. It's not folks who aren't familiar just focus on handing out pipes, handing out needles. It's not just that, right? It's clean underwear, it's a toothbrush, it's condoms. It's just a phone to call to make a doctor's appointment. That's harm reduction.

Stuart Murray (Host) 00:38:54
Yeah. So, Melissa, you've really had a tremendous opportunity to be a leader, working with others to advance solutions as opposed to bringing a lot of times we hear that, here's the challenges, we've got the research on the challenges. And that's important. It's important to have that information. But so often it sometimes stops there and it never finds its home. And so what you and your team have done is you have brought the solution forward. And I guess I'd like to get your sense. Melissa, if anybody who's listening to this podcast, what would you like them to take away as the most important element of trying to understand? Or and I'll just say the word understand because you have to understand to be educated on it before you can take action. But what would be the most important element to understand about the broader public who really don't have a sense of what it's like to be unsheltered, just.

Melissa Stone 00:40:07
To say one thing. 

Stuart Murray (Host) 00:40:10
Take your time and bring it and make it meaningful for you.

Melissa Stone 00:40:13
Quote from the team lead Adam Wickerwick always says to me, treat people like they are people. And so because I'm a heart person, sometimes this is good and sometimes this is bad. I always try to speak from my heart. And I will tell you, don't be afraid. Don't be afraid of anything. And speak to people like you would speak to your own children or your own grandchildren, that they are your relative. And show love and don't be racist and don't be presumptuous and don't assume, because it's not that nobody says, I want to grow up and I want to be living in a tent when it's mine is 50 out in Winnipeg, Manitoba. It's not a goal for anyone. I want to leave it at that.

Stuart Murray (Host) 00:41:25
Yeah, okay. Melissa Stone, thank you so much for sharing who you are and sharing what you have been doing, working with Astam API Nikinak, making a difference here in the city of Winnipeg and providing leadership and providing solutions to something that I have learned that the term is unsheltered. And that has been something that I've learned from you. So thank you for that and thank you for taking time to have this conversation with me today on an issue that is hugely, hugely important to us as a society. So thank you for your time. Thanks for listening to humans on rights. A transcript of this episode is available by clicking the link in the show notes of this episode. Humans on Rights is recorded and hosted by Stuart Murray. Social Media Marketing by Buffy Davy music by Doug Edmond For more, go to humanrightshub.ca, produced and distributed by the Sound Off Media Company.