Stanislas Bell: Breaking Barriers at the Canadian Museum for Human Rights

Stuart Murray  0:00  
What's it like to experience discrimination in the healthcare system? What's it like to be the first black man of power at a Canadian Museum of human rights? How do you navigate through some of the issues when you are the manager of visitor services and you have to deal with COVID? These are just some of the areas we're going to explore with my guest, Stanislas Bell, the manager of visitor spaces at the Canadian Museum for Human Rights. Stanislaus, welcome to humans on rights. Thank you, Stuart, so listen, talk to me a little bit about you know, kind of introduce yourself a bit, maybe explain what you do, just so we can kind of put that out there for those people that are listening,

Stanislas Bell  0:38  
for sure, I've been in Canada for 12 years. I'm originally from Cameroon in Africa. My mom moved to Canada 12 years ago with three kids and a kid in her belly, so four kids in total, new culture, new weather, new people, new language. Only language we knew how to speak was French, and we had to learn everything from scratch. So when we came to Canada, specifically to Winnipeg, my mom wanted us to learn English, so she knew that with L'Oreal and dsfm, there was opportunity for us to stay within the French community, and she didn't want that for us, so she moved outside of Winnipeg, about an hour away from Winnipeg, where we added a couple of years in high school, then we came back to Winnipeg for university. I started engineering for two years, then found out that it wasn't really what I wanted. I wanted to interact with humans on a consistent basis. I wanted to do something a bit more meaningful for the community, just in general. Wanted to be engaged in different businesses and things of that nature. So I started working for Airbnb, then moved to skid dishes as a manager, and then got hired by the museum about six years ago, where I started as a team lead, then moved up to assistant manager and then to the manager of the visitor services team.

Stuart Murray  1:57  
So you had an interesting life coming into Canada and under first and foremost, learning how to speak a second language, English. I mean your first language being French, so you learn to speak English. What was the experience, you know, just kind of your initial reaction. Did you come right from Cameroon to Winnipeg? Or did you have a stop in between?

Stanislas Bell  2:17  
We had stops between, but we came directly at that particular time, we went from Cameroon to to Winnipeg, and it was, it was brutal. I was 16 years old. I didn't know what I was getting myself into. My mom didn't have a job. At that time, when we arrived in Canada, there was nothing. We were basically poor. We didn't have anything, no resources. We decided to change life. She wanted a different life for us, so we had to start over. And I remember just crying every night because I didn't want to be here. So she as very tactical move, what she decided to do was to make sure we would be close to school, about two minutes away from school, so we didn't have a choice. So she would say, you either go to school or you stay home. But it was basically the start of that new life, a new adventure.

Stuart Murray  3:05  
And what brought your family from Cameroon to Winnipeg, Stanislaus, what would be the kind of the draw

Stanislas Bell  3:11  
there? So initially the move was just to go to Canada. It was we go to Canada and we go to Montreal. We go to Quebec because we speak French, but when we did the application, we did it with my biological father, and what happened there is that because of a point system, we didn't qualify for Montreal because of his age and because of his application. So we got moved to Winnipeg, and my mom basically was we had a great life. My mom, she's always, she was a lawyer, corporate lawyer. So she she was always had a pretty wealthy life, you know, until that move, she just she knew she needed something new, something different, and wanted us to explore a different reality in North America, see something different and learn English, you know, because for her, that's the business language, that's how things start. So she wanted us to be exposed to a different reality. And she made a bet, and I can say it's a pretty successful bet. Yeah, that's

Stuart Murray  4:13  
a lot. You know, when you take on coming to a country, as you say, with three children and one on the way, so you've got four children, and not necessarily coming to a job where you know you're going to have an income, and you've obviously all survived. And is your mother still, still in Winnipeg?

Stanislas Bell  4:29  
Well, still in Winnipeg. She was, she was here an hour ago. She's still here. She's still looking young, fresh, powerful, you know, happy, yeah. So, so I guess we turned things around, and we got back to even a better reality than what we had before. Because, you know, my siblings, everybody is working, everybody has a job, like a great job, and, you know, we're all making a difference in the community in some way, shape or form.

Stuart Murray  4:55  
Would you say, as we speak today, Stanislaus, that you're happy in Winnipeg? Yeah. Okay, this is taking a little too long to answer.

Stanislas Bell  5:05  
No, no, no, I haven't answered. I am happy in Winnipeg. I'm just happy in general. I'm not a sad person. I'm happy in general. And I'm thankful for this city, because it taught me so much. You know, discipline, work. I had to go through the multitude of things that I guess, as a 16 year old, sometimes you're not supposed to see. But you know, I'm very thankful for the opportunities that I received in this city, just in general, from my job to all the people that I've met, all the knowledge that I've accumulated, it's been great. I love the city. I love the city. You don't even know how much I love it. That's why I pause for a second. I love it, and I'm so thankful.

Stuart Murray  5:41  
It's great, don't thanks for that answer. So your 16 year old would just kind of want to sit in that world for a minute before we get into some of the specifics you're involved in today. So your 16 year old, did you have an interest in music or sport, or is there something that you brought with you when you arrived in Canada? Went, Okay, you know, this makes sense to me, or I can get involved in this area?

Stanislas Bell  6:01  
Yes, there was one thing, and that was pretty much the master key to all the doors that I opened when I was in high school. It was sports, soccer in particular, because I was already a soccer chair. I was already a soccer genius when I when I came here, but I had to learn basketball, and I found that I was pretty good. I was pretty good, actually very good at some point, but pretty good. Yeah, soccer got me it was kind of the language that I was speaking with the people on the field, because I didn't speak a lick of English. I got accepted by, you know, my classmates by, you know, all the people in the field was because of the talent I was displaying on the field.

Stuart Murray  6:36  
Right? And did you learn then English simply by school, by attending school, or did you learn it through other ways, like through listening to Canadian music? Or, I shouldn't say Canadian but English music, yeah,

Stanislas Bell  6:48  
all of that. So school, music, movies, I changed my whole life. You know, everything like my phone is in English. I would watch movies in English. When I was 12 years old, my mom made me read the dictionary, the French dictionary, so I had to start over and do the same thing in English. Same thing with the Bible, the Bible in English. So I got exposed to that on a consistent basis. So

Stuart Murray  7:12  
you're 16 years old, you come to Canada. You're not that happy at that time, but you've developed. You learn a lot. You get involved in a lot of sports stuff. You make some friends. You go to school Exactly. And so here we are today, in 2025 so you've been here for a number of years. Stanislav, have you ever been back to Cameroon,

Stanislas Bell  7:29  
yes, yes. A couple of times. Yes, yeah. And

Stuart Murray  7:34  
do you notice things different when you go back and you see what you kind of left there, when you think about as a 16 year old, your memories, and when you go back, are they the same? Different? What's the country look like to you? Now,

Stanislas Bell  7:45  
I would say it's the same and different at the same time. It's the same from what I see, but it's different from what I understand when seeing things as a 16 year old is different, and seeing things as a 2425 or 26 year old. So when I go back, even just the way people look at me is different, you know, they have this they sort of look at me like I'm I'm not from there, you know, even though I'm from there. So I feel like I'm at home. But it's this new feeling. I remember a few years ago, I was explaining this to my mom, there's this feeling of not belonging, like I don't belong anywhere. Because when I go back there, I'm not on the same wavelength. It's different mindset. So they don't understand me when I come here, when I'm in Canada, obviously I'm black, you know, discrimination, racism, all of that exists. And people look at me like, Oh, he's not from here, he's from somewhere else. Almost feel like I don't belong anywhere. But in the end, today, on 28 I understand things a bit differently. I feel like I belong everywhere. I don't think I'm necessarily from Cameroon, France, or even Winnipeg or Canada. I belong everywhere.

Stuart Murray  8:55  
Yeah, so you're here 16 year. You speak French. You know you're a person of color. You've got to deal with learning English. You've got to deal with fitting into a society that is predominantly white. What did you kind of get a sense of the first time that you might have experienced discrimination? Stanislav,

Stanislas Bell  9:13  
it's a heavy question, because before, before I got to the museum, for me, discrimination was more of a challenge. My mom raised us with the mindset of never finding excuses, like you always stick anything that life gives you, and you make something positive out of it. So racism, to me, was a challenge. So I only understood what racism was when I got to the museum and started really learning about some of the things that were just inappropriate, disrespectful, and things of that nature, and learning about my history like I knew history, but not the same way that I learned at the museum. But what I could say is that when me and my siblings came here in high school, I can already say like I can say now that I'm looking at it, looking back at some of the things that. My classmates would say, or some of the things that my friends would say. Some people thought it was funny to call me, you know, the N word, for example, when you don't understand the language, you're just trying to fit in. You're trying to make sure people like you for what you are. You don't care about all of that stuff. I remember a story where my brother came home and basically what he said was that they were in a circle, seven eight kids, and then the other seven kids were took turn, and one other time, were just making fun of him, his skin color, his accent, his hair, and he was he sort of just stood there and told himself that one day I'll show you. And just like me, because he was good in sports. He got the respect of all his peers as a result. So it was basically the same thing for me, is that people would call me names, you know. But at the time, I wouldn't mind it, because I knew I was part of the team, I was part of a group, you know. And I was trying to fit in. I was trying to be accepted. But now looking back at it, I know that was that was definitely not okay, you know. And if I had the knowledge that I have right now, I would have reacted differently. Obviously.

Stuart Murray  11:08  
Stanislaus, you mentioned that we talked a little bit about discrimination in the healthcare system. You mentioned at one point that you almost died, you know. Share that story, if you don't mind, like how discrimination came in here, the human rights perspective that you bring to that conversation and and the fact that you're, you're obviously a very, very great spirits person to tell the share the story today.

Stanislas Bell  11:33  
No, for sure, I've been sharing this story for the last year. You know, been invited, you know, on different platforms, and had different opportunities to share the story, so I'm very comfortable sharing the story. Basically, what happened is, I went to Cameroon, you know, on vacation. It was about it was two years ago. And what happened is that one night, while I was waiting for a friend at a bus stop, I got bitten by a mosquito. I didn't really think much of it at the time. And then over the next couple of weeks, I started to feel a bit off, you know, low energy, strange sensation. My body was just a bit different. But then I kept pushing through, and I would do my regular workouts, and right after my workouts, I would feel good. So what happened is, some people, people who know about malaria, I didn't know that when you have that virus, you know, symptoms show pretty quickly. But for me, I carried that virus for at least two weeks in my body. While I was in Cameroon, when I came back to Canada, I stayed another two weeks. I was still feeling a bit off, but I thought it was the difference in temperature, you know, the me just trying to address that a client with the water, the food, and then one day at work almost collapsed. My colleagues are you gotta go home, man, you're not feeling good. So what happened, really, is that my sister, my brother, they tried to go to multiple hospitals when you started with my little sister. So we live in St Boniface, so we went through a few hospitals, and just the looks, the way people would receive would receive us, the way people would not even acknowledge us, you know, was very interesting. I remember there was one particular sport that we stopped at, and the guy just kept asking questions about my sexual life, you know, nothing to do with what I had. He didn't care about my condition. And I remember my sister telling him, don't you see that this guy is close to death, like he's dying. I wasn't able to say a word. I wasn't able to walk. And you had my little sister, you know, trying to carry me around in the city. And the guy just said, here's some tests. You gotta go and do some tests here. And that's it, blood work and blah, blah, blah. So eventually we made it to Victoria Hospital near the University of Manitoba, and even there, we had to wait for hours. She passed me into my brother, and I was there with my brother for hours, like 12 hours, 13 hours. So we're still waiting. Finally, they got me in. And then, after multiple questions, mother, blood work, lots of things, they finally understood that I had malaria. That was the conclusion of the doctor. You have malaria. It's nothing big tropical disease. You probably got it when you were in Cameroon. That's fine. What's interesting about my story is that if I was a normal person, I would have showed some symptoms while in Cameroon, and I would have gotten, you know, medication, treatment right away, and none of this would have ever happened. But I believe this was fake. This had to happen for me to understand what's happening in our society and actually go through it. So got into a room, and I remember the nurse just being upset with me. I was asking for some more IV fluids because I didn't have food for like, a few days.

Stuart Murray  14:42  
Let me just interrupt you. Are you in Cameroon? Now? Are you in Canada?

Stanislas Bell  14:46  
I'm in Canada. So like, now I'm back, yeah, so I'm back in Canada. Sorry. Two weeks in, Cameroon, with the virus, came back to Canada, trained with drugs. Another two weeks, collapsed, and then my sister brings me to Victoria Hospital. This is in the. Toria hospital. So I'm in a hospital, and I'm with a nurse, and she's pretty upset. I'm asking for some more IV fluid, which brushed me off. And the reason she was upset is because I wasn't moving fast enough. I'm like, I can't move fast enough. I'm running on an on an empty stomach. I didn't have food for a long time. I haven't seen light in a long time. I just need, just need to be a bit more patient with me. And she didn't want to hear it. So what happened is, she just left the room, and I didn't see her for 14 hours that night. Things got a bit worse. What was happening is, as I'm calling for help, nobody's coming. Nothing is happening. I'm just I sort of heard like someone was screaming in the hallway, got out of my room, and it was an indigenous woman being physically assaulted, you know, by the people there, like just the doctors or all the group of people that are supposed to help us. And the woman is crying, asking for help, asking for the same thing that I was asking, you know, some more medication, some more treatment. She's not getting it. Long story short, she got physically brutalized and kicked out of the hospital. Went back into my room, so I went back into my room, and I was like, Okay, if I keep asking here, if I keep asking for help, I might end just like her. So I better keep quiet. That was really one of the first times where I felt like my voice didn't mean anything. I had to shut up and shut everything down. And in that moment, the only thing that I thought about doing was praying. Prayed God, and I told God, if you get me out of this situation, I promise you to dedicate my whole life resources, anything that I have, to the service of my community, so that things like that do not continue happening in my community. Long story short, next morning, about 10am and this was happening, so the nurse left my room around 7pm so this is the next morning, around 10am one of my friends calls me and my family. Everybody thinks I'm in good hands. Everybody thinks, you know, it's only malaria, nothing, nothing big. He's in the hospital. They're taking care of him. So my sister is having this is just to put things in perspective. My sister is having her gender reveal party. My mom is in Cameroon with my dad. They're having dinner. Everybody's sort of happy. No one knows what I'm going through that night. And then next morning, my friend comes to the hospital, calls me and says that what is happening with you. They don't want me to see you. They're seeing you in isolation. Are you contagious? And I'm saying no, malaria is not contagious. What's happening so it's in that moment that I understood what the nurse did that night, when she left my room, she placed me in isolation. So no one wanted to give me hell, because they all thought I was contagious. So I didn't receive treatment, medication, nothing for 14 hours because of that particular act. Anyway, he gets into my room after making some noise, you know, and the doctors apologized to him, not to me, apologize to him. And then he came into my room of the nurse, and I'm like, I gotta get out of here. This is it. I survived. I feel good. I was feeling like 50% but like, this is good enough. This is better than zero. You gotta get me out of here. They didn't want to let me out. But finally, two hours after I got out of the of the hospital. And in that situation, I remembered my promise to God, but I was still in shock. I needed to deal with that. So one of my friends, one of my mom's friend, who is also the leader of black and proud, which is noir fair. His name is Wilgus. He called me when he heard about the story, and wanted me to go public with it. You know, go to the media, and I remember telling him two years ago, it's not time, it's not the right time. When time is right, I'll do it. And seems like time has been right since last September, because I've been talking about this story in that moment. Most people, the media, sometimes, when they hear the story, they ask me, why did you conclude racism? Why was that the conclusion? Well, they knew what I had. Nurse, obviously it was malaria. They knew that she gave me treatment. They knew how to treat me, but in that situation, she decided to put me in isolation, knowing I wasn't contagious, and to abandon me in that situation where I could have died, I got out of that thanks to a white friend, because the friend who called me was white, and I guess it's also a bit philosophical, because it shows how even if we try to work just within the community, we still need help from other communities. That's allyship. You know, that's also why I value allyship. So in that situation, having my life being saved not by a member of my family, but by a friend who's from the white community really meant a lot for me, and that's why I guess discrimination, racism, I see that concept a bit differently today, so pretty much what came out of that was me starting a business like I've said, as. Be fitness, which is essentially supporting my community, empowering the community from a physical, mental, psychological and spiritual standpoints, because I realized that someone as healthy as me, who's been in the fitness industry for over eight years, could have died easily in the hospital like that. So it's not just about the physical, it's also about the mental, the psychological side of things, and it's to really help people be aware. And I'm using fitness as a vehicle.

Stuart Murray  20:30  
So just go back a little bit. Stanislaus, you're, you're in the the hospital that you're in intensive care. You don't know that, right? You're, they, nobody mentioned that to you your intensive care, and how is it that you were finally able to get discharged? What went down to get you to the point where they said, Okay, you can leave the hospital.

Stanislas Bell  20:51  
I didn't give them a choice. I sort of regained some energy, and I was a 240 pound guy, so I guess if I'm telling them I'm leaving, I don't think they could stop me, you know, I was telling that I was good, you know, I would feel I need to leave the hospital. They prescribed, like a few more medication, a few more things. They said, You have to take this, this and that. I said, no problem, but I gotta go. This is not the place for me anymore. I've been here for about a couple of nights. I gotta go, you know. So I left

Stuart Murray  21:21  
and did you? You obviously made a full recovery, but what is, when you left? Where did you? Did you go home? Did you? What did you

Stanislas Bell  21:28  
do? Yeah, I went home. It was kind of the third day of treatment. So I went home. I finished treatment from home, and that was it. My family doctor from Cameroon, because we have a family doctor also in Cameroon called me and sort of told me what I should, I should be doing to recover faster, which I did. So they gave me treatment here, plus advices from my doctor in Cameroon, and things kind of worked out pretty well for me.

Stuart Murray  21:53  
So, you know, that's a very challenging, you know, situation to go through, and it's important to talk about it, you know, because you not only you know, did you feel obviously racism in terms of how you were being treated, but you witnessed it with a indigenous woman,

Stanislas Bell  22:10  
yes, yes, yes. That was brutal. I've never seen that to me, when you go to a hospital, and this is sort of what people don't understand, is when you go to a hospital, you think this is where you're going to get treatment, attention, maybe a bit of love. Why not? You know you're suffering. So do you expect that? But when you go through this, these kind of situations, and you see the opposite, it changes a mindset, because we hear these stories here and there, and sometimes we just hear that people die, and this is sort of what put things in perspectives. For me, is that most people go through experiences like that, and one of two things happen. I either die and then we never hear about them, about what really transpired, or they go home and they just traumatized and they don't want to talk about it, which kind of happened to me for like, a year, I didn't really want to talk about it because to try to deal with that situation. But that's not the solution. You want to get out of silence. You want to bring awareness. You want to talk about these things so that people know that the solution is not to be quiet, because silence is the same thing as death, you know. So seeing that, seeing that, that treatment, you know, that women being physically assaulted in a hospital, to me, just changed my perspectives and they we need to do this. There's a lot of work to be done. There's so many things we could, we could be doing as we speak. You know, there's a lot of things we could be doing. So that's not right. That's not right, for sure,

Stuart Murray  23:39  
was, you know, just coming back to this, this woman, do you know how that ended? What was the outcome of that?

Stanislas Bell  23:45  
She got kicked out of the hospital, and it got quiet very quickly. And that was it. What's funny is that some of my clients are also from the indigenous community, you know, so I've had an opportunity to really interact with these people. And when they hear this story, none of them. Nobody's shocked. For them, it's like, yeah, this is pretty much what we go through. You know, this is the situation. This is all reality. So I'm not saying that they think it's normal, but it's not surprising anymore. It's not shocking anymore. What is shocking to me is that we have a lot of people were silent. And I understand that, you know, and that's why I'm really thinking, if I was put in this position, I was blessed, sometimes with platforms, sometimes with the opportunities to share my stories and to inspire other people. There's no way I can remain silent, and that's sort of what helped me, you know, start my business, wanting to be involved with the community, working with black history, being even more engaged at the Canadian Museum for Human Rights, because it's not about what also happened there. It's more about what we can contribute to the society. And you know, I wanted to leave a couple of times the museum, but when I understood that it was an. Important platform for people in these communities that are going through injustices on a consistent basis. I realized that me being there, as I was telling you when we started, is also just like it's hope. It represents hope for my community.

Stuart Murray  25:16  
So have you had to go to a hospital since?

Stanislas Bell  25:20  
No, no, no, obviously not. Obviously not. I mean, I've been very blessed, you know, because I take my health, nutrition very seriously. I kind of have to, because of my my job, my work, you know, my business. And as a result, I haven't been sick. And even if I feel anything, that's not the place where I would go. I would stay home, sleep, drink some water, and that's it, you know, yeah, yeah, for sure, yeah.

Stuart Murray  25:47  
No kidding. So Stanislaus, you started a business. Tell me the name of your business again, SCB fitness. SCB fitness.

Stanislas Bell  25:55  
S is for strength. C is for curiosity, and B is for boldness,

Stuart Murray  26:01  
okay? SCB fitness, and it's it's more than just a physical workout space.

Stanislas Bell  26:07  
It is more than that. It's a concept, because I talked about being strong with the s, being strong, physically, mentally, psychologically, being curious, wanting to learn, you know, education, awareness and being bold, meaning having the courage of your conviction, having the courage to fight against racism and discrimination. So it's really a business to empower and galvanize communities in general, starting with my own community.

Stuart Murray  26:32  
And what are some of the things that this is a great opportunity for you to just give a commercial plug to what you do. So what would somebody learn. And presumably you get all genders attending, yeah,

Stanislas Bell  26:45  
for sure. So how it works is I offer personal coaching programs to clients in general, and these opportunities are a moment where we can reinforce them from a physical and a mental standpoint. So that's what happens there. Also when I get invited to different platform to share about my stories, that's also me representing SCB fitness, specifically for youth, because that's the work. I really I'm really keen on doing that work. I'm really focused on, you know, galvanizing the youth this summer, for example. And I've been working on this project. I'm opening a summer camp. It's a five year project, and the summer camp is for the youth in the black community. This year, we're starting specifically and exclusively with the black community, age 13 to 16. We're offering the program for kids who don't necessarily have the opportunity to interact with a program of this nature. The program has two key pillars. One is fitness. Obviously, that's what I do. And number two is we're inviting different guest speakers from different different nature, from different positions in life, different communities. Really interact with the kids, share their stories, galvanize the kids, inspire the kids. Because I know I've been in those shoes when you were young kid, and you only just a youth, and you don't understand what society is prepping for you in the future. You want to be prepped. You want to be ready. You want to hear about some of those messages of hope, what to do. And if we invite you know, CEOs, MLAs, people that I've been in contact with, in connections with to really share some of their stories with the kids. I think it'll go a long way. I said it's not just a one year program, it's a five year program. So we're starting a bit small this year with about 20 kids, then in the Francophone community and then in the Anglophone community. I've been working with different corporates. I've been in touch with different corporates, different businesses, different individuals, to sort of collect sponsorships for the kids so they don't have to pay for it. So we'll start the summer, then we'll have some sort of follow up of the kid until next year. And the goal is really to expand, you know, expand with different activities, not just fitness and motive and inspirational talks, but also have different activities for the kids and also partner up with different communities, not just the black community, but also, I talked about allyship and how it's important, but having a space where we can have a mix of different communities and show them what allyship means,

Stuart Murray  29:17  
sounds amazing. Where do you have a location that you're gonna do?

Stanislas Bell  29:21  
Yeah, we have a location already right now. I'm recruiting the kids to clean kids, obviously, and then also finalizing some of the sponsorship requests that I've made over the last few months. So the location is on Archibald. It's a gym. It's the gym where I usually have all my sessions with my clients. That gym in August this summer, for four weeks, we'll have space, we'll have time for us to go through with the program. And yeah, that's pretty much it. So anyone who wants to be involved, once anyone wants to support, anyone wants to sponsor a kid, things like that. You know, I've sort of been very open because I wanted to, I didn't want to have one sponsor to. The whole thing, I want to show that the community can come together, and we can have different communities, different people, different realities, coming together to support an initiative of this nature.

Stuart Murray  30:10  
And if they, if they want to do that, you've got a website, I don't have a

Stanislas Bell  30:15  
website, is they just have to contact me directly. The way I see things is in the future. I mean, obviously we're growing. How it works right now is that I'm the kind of guy who doesn't like to wait. We identify something that we could do to support the community. We got to do it. I have the support of Black History Manitoba, obviously. So people can either contact Black History Manitoba directly, because they have a website, and like I said, I'm a member, or they can contact me directly. I'll give you my contacts for the people who are listening,

Stuart Murray  30:44  
yeah, and, well, I'll put it into the notes if people are interested to status, so that that's amazing.

Stanislas Bell  30:50  
One quick thing just to say, the way it works is, if someone want, if an individual, if a corporate, wants to sponsor a kid, it's $500 per kid,

Stuart Murray  31:00  
right? Okay. And the idea is that you've made this so that it is free for the kids. It

Stanislas Bell  31:06  
is free, yeah. So let's say worst case scenario, I didn't have anything, any budget, any money for this, it would still happen. Because this is happening regardless of what kind of resources that we'll we'll have, you know, at that particular time. So it's happening. It's free for the kids. Like I said, I'm sort of hiring the kids for the summer. We'll make sure to have a follow up until next summer. But because of some of the excitement, you know, the momentum that this initiative has been creating, and I'm really happy to see that it seems like I might have to offer another program in the winter, like a winter, a winter camp, because there's a lot, there's a lot of people wanting to be involved in and I appreciate that.

Stuart Murray  31:46  
Obviously, that's a great sign. It's a great sign, as you're getting, I mean, lots of conversation and interest, which is fantastic, right? So I know it's a bit of a rabbit hole, but let me just ask this, because you're bilingual, because you're looking at 10 French students, 10 English students. Is it going to be kind of a bilingual class? It's teaching? Or how are you going to structure that? So

Stanislas Bell  32:06  
the way it works is I got five groups of, sorry, four groups of five. That means two groups in English, two groups in French. When I want to highlight French English, I want to invite the speakers, you know, I have speakers who speak both languages, who speak French only, or we speak English only. And I have so many speakers wanting to be part of this that I could have a speaker every day of the program, you know, to come in and have conversations with the kids. So I could invite you as well. You know, you will be great, that's for sure.

Stuart Murray  32:38  
Yeah, you know what? Give me a shot. Give me a chance. I'm happy to help out. Stanislaus, that's fantastic. So let's talk a little bit about something that you talked at the outset. I'll just say it's a bold statement. It's an important statement. You know when you talked about the fact that you're manager of visitor services at the Canadian Museum for Human Rights, but you also are very, very strongly suggesting and very proud to say that you're the first black manager of power at the Canadian Museum for Human Rights. Why is that important? Stanislaus, to make that comment,

Stanislas Bell  33:09  
it's important because for my community, it's important to have representation. This is a problem that we've had all over Canada, I guess even in the US, in different countries, the lack of representation. And because I've been in the inside, I've seen it with my own eyes. I know how hard it is to get in those positions. I've seen the system from behind. I've seen some of the little things that happen behind the scenes and why people feel discouraged. I've seen lots of people come through the museum and leave right away, some people, and the comment is always the same. I've been in meetings with, you know, black history, Manitoba. I've been in meetings with people in the black community, and the feedback has always been the same. We don't feel like we belong in this building. It's a beautiful building, you know? It's amazing, amazing content, but we don't feel like we belong for a couple of reasons. There's no representation, there's no deliberate invitation. We're not, you know, inviting people the right way. And to me, it's always like, if you want to invite a culture or group of people that you don't know, you send one of theirs. You know, you don't send someone who doesn't know the culture. So if you invite me, but if someone that doesn't know my culture was inviting me, it's almost like an insult, you know, it's almost like disrespectful. So there's been a lot of things that have happened. Obviously, we grew from that with a new CEO, Aisha, and some of the things that she has inspired, she has motivated, the way she's been, you know, approaching relationship building and things of that nature, it has made us stronger and better. And for me, when people see that someone like me, you know, can be a manager in a place like that where people don't see themselves with people after the scandal that happened a few years ago, people called up as a race. This place, seeing someone like me in that position gives hope. That means human rights are not just political. You know, there is obviously opportunities for us to grow to understand and I'm proud also to say that I represent the Canadian Museum for Human Rights, not just my community before what we also stand for wanting to build a world where people can have conversations, can understand each other, can be educated about human rights. I think that's important. So when I make that statement, it's also because when I walk into that building every day, I don't necessarily walk into that building as Stanislaus, the manager. I also walk into that building as a member of the community, someone who represent the community, and someone who wants to invite the community into the museum.

Stuart Murray  35:46  
The years you mentioned, you know, sort of the challenges that the Canadian Museum for Human Rights. I know there was a study that was done on it. Those years were, do you recall what those years were? Stanislaus, when that

Stanislas Bell  35:57  
happened? Right? When COVID started, when COVID startup, yeah.

Stuart Murray  36:01  
So 2020, because I, you know, obviously, for most people that know me, I was the inaugural presidency over the Canadian Museum for Human Rights from oh nine to 14 after I left. And I'm very sensitive to the comments that you're making, because I understand how important they were at that time. Can you share with us, just from your perspective, some of the challenges that you're dealing with as a manager of visitor services during COVID,

Stanislas Bell  36:27  
I think, I don't think I know when you're in a situation of stress, people don't always, you know, react in a positive way. And what we sort of observed during COVID Is that, because the museum was also going through something very sensitive, you know, there were claims of discrimination, racism, there was an investigation there. It was sort of like a dark time for the museum. So you have COVID, which is affecting the whole world, and it's massive, and people are going a bit, you know, crazy about it. And then you also have the Canadian Museum for Human Rights was also undergoing some investigation as a result of discrimination, racism. It just didn't sit well. It didn't feel good. It was interesting navigating some of the conversations we had with the public in my position, specifically, you know, vaccination and things of that nature. The vaccine mandate, all of that, it was hard, you know, it was complex. It was complicated and complex at the same time, because there was no way to the museum. Had to follow some of the rules, you know, provincial rules about people having to get vaccinated in order to get into the museum. And you had people feeling like it was the right not to be vaccinated. It was the right not to take the vaccine. And as a result, they would come to the museum and complain. They would make scenes. They would bring, you know, cameras, and they will record different scenes, sort of, you know, trying to expose the museum from a different angle, not understanding some of the obligations that we had to follow as well. Because it wasn't just about the museum, it was about any institution in Winnipeg in Canada, you know, having to follow the rules if we wanted to be open. So the way we sort of looked at it was that we want the public to interact with the content that's the mission. Is for people to get educated and get awareness. We develop virtual content. We develop online content, virtual programs and products for people that were not able to come to the building. But it was important for us to keep our doors open, you know. So that's when the decision was made to go ahead and enforce one of you know, the rules about the vaccine and no, people are not always going to be happy. We understand that, but for the greater good, for, you know, the majority of people having to stay open and operational. For folks who come into the building was important. That was a priority. So I understand, and I think two things can be true. It's people, it's totally it's your right. If you don't want to be vaccinated, that's fine. However, we also have to follow the rules in order for us to still make that amazing product available to the public, and we go two steps further by offering some virtual content to folks so that people don't feel like they don't have access to knowledge as a result of that rule. So that's sort of how we kind of navigated that and keeping the team motivated, organized, you know, galvanized during that dark time was was tough, because you would have those conversations. People would be angry, people, you would understand why, but it's sort of, how do you maneuver yourself in a way that doesn't show disrespect to the person who was coming to the museum at the same time you show some empathy, we had to support each other.

Stuart Murray  39:57  
Yeah. So in other words, I think you know. We're all aware that a lot of institutions or different places, public spaces, would not allow people in if they weren't able to show a sort of sense if they were vaccinated, right? And so that would be the same at the Canadian Museum for Human Rights. If you weren't vaccinated, you weren't allowed physically in the building, but as you say, You offered opportunities for them to learn virtually in other options. It wasn't just sort of saying you can't come in period full stop. You tried to make sure that there was an opportunity to respect their decision and allow them still to learn about human rights.

Stanislas Bell  40:34  
Absolutely, absolutely. And you know in the world that we live right now, we know that virtual tools or online resources. That's the way to go. Now that's the how you expand your reach. And even today, we have schools that don't need to be there in person, be attended museum virtually. You know that that is just there's just crazy stats about that, the number of people that we can welcome to the museum, not just in person, but overall, it's amazing, and that's that's how you see, that's how we contribute to the community. It's not about the rule, it's about the goal.

Stuart Murray  41:12  
And Stanislas is somebody mentioned or asked you the question saying, you know, you're the manager of visitor services at the Canadian Museum for Human Rights. How do you feel, from a human rights perspective, that I don't want to get vaccinated, but I feel I should be able to have the right to come into the building.

Stanislas Bell  41:32  
That's where, you know, I draw the line is you have to write not to get vaccinated, that's for sure. But rules and policies are put in place for a reason is to protect, you know, everybody, and being healthy, or knowing there is a sense of health, you know, there's some healthy measures being put in place to protect most people. I think that's what is more important at that particular time we're going through something that is not just the reality of Winnipeg or the reality of Canadian Museum for Human Rights. It's a reality of the whole world. So it's sort of like explaining this to people, you know, I got vaccinated, you know, I didn't want to, necessarily, but I had to, and I felt like, okay, it is what it is. What's more important to me at that particular time is to be available for my teams, to be available for the museum, is to make sure we continue to offer this product, and we continue on the path of the mission and the vision. You know,

Stuart Murray  42:33  
fair enough. I mean, that's good answer. I think you captured the vast majority of the sentiment of how people felt about it. And you know, I don't know what the next sort of issue that will come forward. They'll be similar. I'm sure there will be something like that. But you always have to look at what your your moral compass and what your human right values are, and try and sort of put that in. It's, you know, again, you know that they, we all agree that one of the things that you know the difference between what's right and what's wrong and what's your personal value, and what you look at as a human right. Sometimes those things are can be pretty messy.

Stanislas Bell  43:07  
That's true. It's about respecting also boundaries and understanding people. You know, it's always funny, because it's not just about COVID. Every day, someone try to come into the museum and make up the rights, like I have the right not to use my phone if I don't want to for online ticketing, for example. Or I have the right, like, there's difference between, you know, rules, you know, between a system and between your right. We're not trying to deny your rights in general, but you need to be educated about what it means.

Stuart Murray  43:40  
Yes, sure. I mean, again, you know, it's interesting you just share that story, because I, I do think that, you know, the world is full of people who want to establish a right on some issue and use it as a human right. And you know, that's just part of where we are as a democracy, right, where there's opportunities and see all those things go down. Stanislas, thank you so much for this. I just I want to make sure that when I asked you to come on here on our podcast, I was thrilled and delighted, because I know you've got a very interesting background which you shared, and I appreciate that. But I just wondered if there's anything I didn't ask you that you might want to talk about on this podcast.

Stanislas Bell  44:19  
I like that question. I don't like at the same time, because I could, I could speak for hours, but I'm just going to keep it short and and on a positive note, because there's so many things that are happening right now in the world. You know, when you open the media, you check on the TV, check the news, and you have people were always discombobulated because they see something that I didn't expect could be true. My message, really, for people and for the people around me in my life, is leadership is important. Obviously, my definition of leadership is being able to transform anything that's negative into something that's positive. And leadership is also being able to build some leaders for the future, which is why I've told you about the work that I do with the youth. We want to invest in our community I love deeply, this community of Winnipeg, this community of Manitoba, we have some amazing people here that are ready to support we have some amazing young folks that are ready to step up and be ready to handle the problems that will come with the next generation. But it's also a job, as people now will listen to podcasts like this, people will go to museums, people will see what's happening the world, to take the matter into our own hands. There's always something we can do, you know, and it's a message of hope, it's a message of positivity, it's a message of inspiration that I really want to bring to the world. We want to bring to my community, and show that you could be a black man with, you know, dreadlocks or braids. It doesn't matter. The look doesn't matter. It's what you have inside of you. I got judged a lot along the way, and that's why I'm telling you, it's important for me to see that I'm the first person in position of power the Canadian Museum for Human Rights, because the look, you know, when people look at you and they sort of create a story about you that can affect you in a negative way. And I was on the receiving end of that, and I've been on the receiving end of that multiple times. The way you present yourself, sometimes there's nothing you can do about it. You know you want to express who you are, as long as you're respectful to others, but it can always create some judgment. It's not about what people think. It's about what you think about yourself. And that's sort of the message I really want to push there, because folks in my community come to me and they're surprised how someone with dreadlocks earrings, the look that I have can be in the position that I am, and it's because of work. I believe in the vision. I believe in sort of getting all the communities working together, and I believe in the message of love. And I think no matter what happens, you just gotta keep working. Just gotta keep you know, believing in that, and one day you'll see the light, and that's what happened to me. And I'm just saying it's just the beginning. So many things to come. Like I said, I'll share my contact. I really want to be open to the community. I want people and I'm not forcing people to work with me. Obviously, there are different things that people could be involved with or involved in. What I really want to do is if folks sort of think that this is something they want to be involved in, they want to work with, they want to participate in. You know, we're open and we're ready to work with everybody.

Stuart Murray  47:31  
Yeah, sounds great. It's a great way to sort of wrap up this conversation. So Stanislaus Bell, thank you so much for being on humans, on rights. I really appreciate your time. I really appreciate your insight, your honesty, your passion, your hope and your your love of the community. Thank

Stanislas Bell  47:46  
you. Thank you. I appreciate you as well.