Raising Teens in a Complicated World with LMFT Sari Rose Barron

Scottie Durrett  0:06  
Scott, welcome to the momplex Podcast. I am your host. Scotty durett, my passion and purpose is to help other moms just like me rediscover their joy and step into their confidence as their kids grow up, join me as I share my own experiences, my own mistakes and aha moments as I navigate this incredible journey of motherhood while trying not to lose my identity. If you are a modern day mama who is ready to live for herself, not just for her kids, and knows that is the best possible gift you could give, then you are in the right place. This is momplex. Hey, my beautiful mamas, okay, okay, okay, raising children, raising a teen today. It's beautiful, it's emotional, it's confusing, it can crack you apart. I'm doing it right now. I've got three in a whole lot of ways. We want to support them. We want to help them. We want to understand them, which is really hard because it doesn't come with a manual, but a lot of times we don't know what we're doing. And so today we're going there, and we're going to learn how to help them, have to help ourselves, and how to stay connected, which I think is a really important word through all of this. And I'm going to be so excited. I'm really honored to introduce you to today's guest. She's someone who brings both clinical expertise and a deep heart to the work of helping teens and families. Her name is seree Rose Baron. She's a licensed Marriage and Family Therapist with 15 years of experience. She's the founder of SoCal individual and family trauma therapy. She's EMDR, certified, trauma informed, and has spent over two decades bringing expressive arts programs to at risk teens across the country. She blends science therapy and heart, which is actually giving me goosebumps, because I don't believe this is actually happening in a lot of places, and she's here to help us understand what's really going on with our children, and to help us, which, again, it's bringing tears to my eyes, because I know there's a lot of moms out there who feel confused but heartbroken, because we want to we're giving our hearts and souls to this. So I'm really excited, because I feel like I can breathe. So we're going to give her a moment to introduce herself. But more than anything, we just want to say welcome and thank you so ceree. Thank you so much for being here. And before I literally make you help us save the world, just please introduce yourself and welcome. I'm so happy you're here.

Sari Rose Barron  2:38  
Oh my goodness, what a welcome. Well, thank you. Thank you so much for having me. And yeah, it's such a it's such a crazy I think it's a crazy time for parents, hormonally, sometimes often with women as as our kids enter that stage two of teen hood, but it pulls on all of the attachment stuff. So I Love You know, I It's this push pull dance that's happening that can just make us feel like we're failing almost all of the time, and we're truly not. And I think that the more we can have compassion for ourselves, as much as you know, with our children in the process of this, like very hard dance, that we're this season of dance that we're in with them, I think helps to foster that connection even more, you know. So, yeah, thank you. I have been, you know, working with parents, moms, teens, for the last, like you said, 15 plus years, and just trying to enter into a land that creates so much more access than just a one to one therapy. You know relationship, because it's parenting is everywhere, and it's hard, and we all, we all need help every day. So whatever I can do to help, I'm happy to so thank you for having me.

Scottie Durrett  3:55  
So while we're going to talk about a lot of things, but why did you choose to get involved in this specific area, what pulled you into it? I mean, I'm so glad that you did, but why teens and why this angle?

Sari Rose Barron  4:08  
Yeah, I think that's a good, a good question. I mean, I think it's, there's a whole bunch of reasons. I think there's a surface level reason, which is that I, prior to becoming a therapist, I was doing a lot of songwriting in low income cities all around the country, working with teens, seeing the realities of what they went through, of what they're trying to navigate with peer pressure, the abandonment of their families, the abandonment of their communities. A lot of them were in gang life. So that's my surface level answer, which is I feel like that world found me a little bit okay. Now, I think on a deeper level, there was, like the therapy gods that were in play. Because when I look at my own relationship with my parents as I've, you know, as I've been parenting, it's become with my own children. I have a seven year old and a 10 year old, so we are very much in between, very much. In between land with him, with my oldest right now, but I'm noticing how easy it is for me to have these like body memories start to come up as I'm parenting my kids in ways that I'm like, I gotta do it different. Holy shit, the like impact of how I was raised, and wanting to feel like I'm almost re parenting myself while I'm parenting, especially in this very tricky age where there's puberty and hormones and so much confusion of like, power battles. I mean, I love, you know, working with parents of younger kiddos too. But I think that there's something really unique that happens when our teens get a lot more of a voice and a sense of identity and individuation that can be very hard and pulling for our attachment stuff as parents, while they're also throwing tantrums, they just have more words, yeah, you know. So that's that's probably the under current more too,

Scottie Durrett  6:03  
well, you actually mentioned it, which, I think is that that third person in the room, which is the peer pressure, right? I think there's, you know, what do they say? It's it's me, it's we, it's you, right? When your kid is that younger, it really does fall on you. When you're in that fourth trimester and you realize, whoa is, it's my responsibility to keep you alive, and I'm in charge of what's going into your mouth and the play dates. And you really are in I am fully in charge of you. You don't really have much of a say. And then all of a sudden you realize they're coming home, and you'll realize, you know, where did you hear that? Where are you learning that? Who told you that? And now you really you're going to the library and checking out what book, and you know what kid told you that on the trampoline, and all of a sudden you're starting to understand that. Okay, now you're asking questions on the playground, and now you're hearing about stuff from so and so, and somebody's younger brother has a phone, and now you're watching movies, you know? So I agree with you. Now there's somebody else in the conversation, right?

Speaker 1  7:02  
I couldn't agree with you more. There's so much more access to even from when we were kids, right? Like, yeah, the access to the internet and social media and yes, peer pressure. I mean, when you're a teen, their brains are literally wired for instant gratification and peer approval, right? They're individuating, but they're also trying to find their sense of self and belonging in their communities. And so often, I think what you were speaking to is like, you know, I see this with clients too, where they're like, Oh my God, I feel like I'm losing them and losing, you know, losing control. And did I set them up for success? Enough are they going to be able to find their way and hold their integrity when they're being peer pressured to do this or and make the right choices, and hopefully they're not too catastrophic while they're, you know, learning as they individuate. And it's, it's so tricky, but that's why I am so grounded in this belief that in this you use this word in the intro, which is connection, right? It's like, how do we stay connected through these tricky moments where we are fostering an environment for them that they can come to us if they get into a tricky situation on their own? Because I do remember, like, when I was I run anxious, and like many of us, right? But I do remember when I was, like with child in my womb, in my body, feeling like, you know, this is probably the least anxious I'm ever going to feel, because I know exactly where they are, you know, like, I'm in charge of what I'm inputting in my body. They're getting the nutrients that I want them to get. I'm kicking myself when I had my sour gummy worm cravings. But like, I still, I still knew that they were like contained. And with each you know, then they start to then they just sit there. They're like little blobs, and then they start to crawl, and then they start to walk, and then they start to in each step, there's like, this, ooh, this like running away experience where, oh, God, now they're in preschool, but you like, now don't get them for three hours a day. Are they going to be okay with separating? You know, now we're in this land of teen hood, where there's just so much it feels like there's so much more at stake too, when they're when they're older, and there's so much more information, like and we said, access that we really, really can't control all the time, and it's really hard, you know?

Scottie Durrett  9:25  
And it's this weird place where, as a mom, you you want them, you know you want them to be able to go, right? You know that, yes, you've got to be able to get them ready to go. You in the brain, you logically know that you're raising them to be successful and strong and stand up for themselves and fight for the person that can't fight for themselves. You know you're you. This is part of what you want to do. But then on the you know, on the flip side, you can't even handle it when they're walking out the door, right? So you're also. Being torn apart, and there's like you said, you're also bringing your own you talk about this in your content, you're also bringing your own nervous system into play, right? Like you have your own history, your own your own upbringing and involved in this, right? So sometimes when you're having these arguments with your kid, you're not even really arguing with your kid, right? You're actually arguing with your own mom. You're arguing with your own stuff, right? So, can we talk without, you know, I know we only have an hour, but like, like, can we talk about, what are some because I do believe that raising teens today is different. It's different. I do think so. It's harder. I think it's different, right? I mean, it's my husband and I were talking about this last night. We've gotten to a little tip. We have a 17 year old boy, and we were kind of fighting with him. I was like, did you finish your homework before you get on video games? I don't even think my parents even had to say those words to me, you know, it's, it's a different language that we're having to like, what are these things that we're having to even say to our kids? Right? Just new words, you know, but it is harder. And I think what you said, like, how can we even forgive ourselves that it is harder, but we're also not trained, so it is going to be more triggering for us, and that's we're allowed to be more triggered, right? So I don't even know what my question is, like, how can we allow ourselves to also not know what we're doing, yeah, and to be okay

Speaker 1  11:24  
with that, yeah, right, yes. And I'll just kind of piggyback and go and you tell me if I'm you know questions, yeah, but yes. I think there's a lot of pressure to as parents to feel like we have to know. We have to figure out how to calm them down. We have to figure out how to answer or fix things for them. And the truth is, and I think you said something really important, which is, we don't have all the answers. We don't know what what can we do then? And I think that if we shift the if we reframe for a moment the idea that we need to know how to fix it, and the first step being aware is, am I the parent? Am I, sorry, dysregulated? Because if I am offline, the chance that we are going to be able to have a calm, grounded conversation, where maybe there's even some learned, learning and boundary setting that we're putting in there is like, probably very low, right? So the first step is actually to even be aware of, do you need to regulate? Do you need what is your nervous system telling you so you see, instead of being like, how do I fix it in this moment? What are the words that I need to say to make this better? How do we get out of this power battle? It's more around, how do I what do I have to do for myself first? And especially with teens, you're modeling that for them too, because it's important to remember like they're they're doing exactly what they're supposed to be doing right now is being a teenager, right? And we are doing exactly what we're supposed to be doing in that moment, which is being a human parent. And so it is inevitable that we are both going to get offline so that to strive to, if I'm if I'm here, saying, and if, whoever, if you're reading, listening to podcasts or self help books, that's telling you this is the answer to all of your problems. It's just not true, like it's, there's, there's an experience, I think, of perfection. It's like, if we just had this answer, then our kid and us, we're going to have the perfect relationship, and that actually fosters a lot of anxiety, right? We actually want to allow and give our kids permission to be kids, to be their own imperfect, beautiful little selves, as we want to give ourselves the permission to do that too. Now the other piece, and there's so much more I could say about that, but the other I don't want to lose track, the other piece to the fixing thing, is so much of what we can offer our kids is not necessarily the solution. Regulation doesn't come from solutions, necessarily self regulation actually comes from allowing those hard, overwhelming feelings that flood our nervous system to circulate as we feel our feet on the ground, to then come up with what to do about the dilemmas that are in front of us, right? Okay? And so it's less about, how do I make it better for them, or how do I make it better for myself in that moment? And usually, often, it's like, how do I make them come down so I feel okay, which is a little bit more like, codependency, rather than Yeah, co

Scottie Durrett  14:25  
regulation, yeah, right. Like, the tantrum in the grocery store. How do I make this right?

Speaker 1  14:30  
Like, and yes, like, Oh, good. Now I have a child who isn't freaking out, but like, they're are they not freaking out because we've scared them into, like, shaming them to be okay, so that it's okay for us. Okay? So like in teen land, when they have more words or their shutdowns look more withdrawn, like the slamming of the door or the finger, or maybe they're just screaming and they're punching things and kicking like, who knows, right? It's more about how do I regulate? In that moment, and then help them get curious about what's even coming up for them. Hey, you seem really, really mad, like it is okay. It is okay to be mad. Do you need to take a few minutes and then we can talk about it, like giving them actually the space to regulate and then, especially with teens, more so than younger kids, is to collaborate on a solution. Hey, do you feel like you want help talking through it, or do you just kind of, sometimes they just need to let it out. They need you to be the container of their experience. Like they had a hard day with school. They had a hard day with friends. And of course, our instinct as a parent is to be like, wait. He did, what to you? She She said, What? Oh my gosh. Oh my gosh. How are we going to fix it? What could you say? Blah, blah, blah. And sometimes it's more just around, like, oh my goodness, I'm so glad you're sharing this with me. What does that do? It's reinforcing talking that sounds so hard. There's some empathy in there. Tell me more, yeah. Like, what? What else? Tell me more. To allow the if we look at emotions like in our circulatory system. We don't want them to freeze. We want them to move. We want them to circulate. So how do we help them circulate their emotions? Tell me more. Oh my gosh. Tell me more. Oh my goodness. That sounds so hard,

Scottie Durrett  16:12  
and that validation, like how you're feeling is you're this is good. This is normal, not letting them know, not making them feel like this isn't right. You know, this isn't wrong. What? So this is so helpful. I love the invitation, like, you know, letting yourself, letting the kids know that, however they feel, that you can handle it, also, yes, that this is a safe space no matter what you say, that I can handle all the curve balls I'm my glove is huge, right? Like, I can handle whatever you're throwing at me. What about the parent who has a teenager who isn't receptive to anything the parents suggest say that the parent is saying, I want you to zag, and the kids go the zigging. And, you know, maybe the kid isn't, maybe the parent is a very high functioning, very successful, you know, athlete, very, you know, type a, kind of parent. The kids a, type B, isn't motivated, isn't really interested in doing anything. The kid, maybe the kids more on the lazy side. And it's kind of driving the parent crazy, you know, the parents feeling I kind of identifying like, what am I? How am I failing? The kids not really taking any my my advice, you know. And they're worried, you know? They're kind of thing, like, oh my gosh, is this kid ever going to listen to me?

Speaker 1  17:23  
Well, I think that in that example, there's you're putting a lot of pressure on the child to validate how you're doing as a parent, right? So there's so much focus on their behavior, telling you, are you a good parent or not? Am I failing or not? And I think that when we are able to be aware of that, and that's a very common thing, by the way, there's nothing wrong with the like. I think we're trained to feel like we want external validation, to tell us like we're doing okay, you know. But I would be curious about what pressure was put on that parent as a child, right? If there's something that they're needing. They're using the same words that they had to tell themselves in order to feel like they were getting the approval they wanted of their from their you know, parents. Now, if I were working with a parent like this, I would start to, you know, my my hunch is that if I asked them, listen like your your child's success, quote, unquote, whatever that success might look like, or behavior that you want changed. Do you would you want them to feel like you didn't love them if they couldn't live up to that? My hunch is that most parents would say, of course, not, like, of course. Yeah, right. Well, okay, we have to start to look then at you see we're missing the mark of, if we're imposing our own value set of what we feel is going to be successful, to then validate that we're doing a good job, we're missing a huge opportunity to be curious with that child. Now that's not to say the child doesn't have work to do around like, is there something that's getting in the way of them, of self motivation? But I guarantee you, if there is, if there's self worth issues, if there's learning processing disorder, stuff that's coming up that's going kind of unnoticed or not tapped into, if they're feeling inadequate because they're peers around them, or maybe they wish they could be better at something and they're not yet right, like whatever that is, we're missing the opportunity to get curious about what's coming up for them when we just need them to get from x or from A to Z.

Scottie Durrett  19:34  
Kind of what you were talking about, though, with the connection. Tell me more, right? Tell me more, right?

Speaker 1  19:40  
Yeah, hey, this seems really hard for you, right? Can you help me understand what's what's going on? I don't want to talk about it. Okay, well, it seems like you need, I know it's, it's, it sounds like it's really important, then, because it's really, it's really tricky, that, because it's hard to talk about, you can take a few minutes. I know when I wanted to do something or. I felt pressured to do something that felt really crummy for me. Yeah, are you feeling crummy? Right? Like there's so many doorways in when a child doesn't have the words yet, but if they definitely feel like the parent isn't able to be curious about their experience, then they are going to shut down, right? And if you're finding that it's hard as a parent to stay curious and not jump into reactivity, then that's where there's oh my gosh, the moment you can identify that. That's so empowering as a parent, because then it's less about how do I get this information out of my child, and more about, uh oh, what's coming up in me that makes it hard for me to delay that makes it hard for me to stay with my kids experience, you know, it's and it's and that's where some of the reflective, deeper work comes in. And sometimes it's as much, you know, it can be as little as just having the awareness and some self correcting. But if it is triggering stuff that is kind of stored in your nervous system. Then sometimes it requires a little bit more help. You're not supposed to know what to do with it, you know, yeah,

Scottie Durrett  21:09  
it's hard. And if it's, you know, I think a lot of times what you were saying before, it's right, when you're, you're sitting here pregnant, and you're, you know, you're like, this is, I've never been so anxious before. There's so much unknown, right? What comes that you know you're reading the baby books and they're telling you, you know, this is how you have to have your kid on a nap schedule. I mean, honestly, the moment you decide that you want to be a mom, when in whatever way that you are choosing to be a mom, what happens? Your fear meter just just skyrockets, right? You just everything just tells you that there's so many reasons to be afraid, right? And I think a lot of it is unknown. And one of mom's biggest fears, I think a lot of the times, is, is this normal behavior, or is this something deeper, right? Is this normal teen behavior, or is this something deeper? And a lot of times, we don't know until maybe it's really serious, right? Like, and I think for a lot of my like, what you we were just talking about, if, if we can contain it, if it makes, quote, sense to us, then in our minds, it's not that serious, right? If it can make sense in our like, in our programming, if it makes sense in terms of my own experiences, like, if I can define this, if, like, maybe I went through it, or I saw it happen, or I went, you know, if I can make sense of it, I'm repeating myself. But if it's new, and especially nowadays, with what we're experience we're exposed to, and what these kids are doing on their phones and what they're go, you know, it's all brand new. So I think it's even scaring moms more than ever,

Speaker 1  22:44  
yes, and I think that as you were talking, it kind of triggered this thought of, you know, there's a lot of overwhelming, scary images, feelings, there's a lot a lot of self harm that happens in middle school and high school age ages. And I do think that that's a very common question that comes up with parents is like, how do I know if it's something more serious, or if I just need to, like, let them work it out. You know, I think that that again, it's less about, oh, God, how do how as a parent, the pressure of, like, needing to know, right? Versus, how do I help them stay and not feel alone with these scary feelings. We're probably wanting someone to be by our side to help us not feel alone while we're freaking out about is this something more serious or not? I'm like, God, who's my comfort person that I can pull their regulation from? You know what I mean? Like, so. But I'll give you an example. Like, let's say there's, you have a child who is having more of those kind of scary thoughts, and you're noticing self harm, or you're, you're, they're like, I just can't take it anymore. Or, you know, and all of a sudden, you're like, what does that mean? What do you say? What do you mean? You can't take it anymore. Sometimes, even, again, we don't have to know how to help them feel better. It's like, hey, I can see that you're in pain. I'm right here with you, right? You don't want them to feel like they're alone. We're going to figure this out together, right? So it's like, and then you pull the resources that they don't know how to yet, right? Whether that's consulting with a therapist, reaching out to the school counselor, and sometimes it's a therapist for the child, and sometimes it's actually a therapist or a parent coach. Parent coach, right? Like it's, there's, there's an experience of, because what you're craving is, I don't know how to do this alone. I don't know what the fuck to say to my kid right now. Like, I don't know, how do I make it all better? And it's so terrifying, because, again, I think this is why there's such a pull with this age group, is it just feels like there's so much at stake, right? There's so much validation when they're younger. That's like, they like, love their mommy, you know, like, they like, have the Cuddles, yes? And it's like, oh my god, I'm their person forever.

Scottie Durrett  24:54  
Hold your hand and they, you know, and they tell you that you're my favorite.

Speaker 1  24:58  
Yeah. Think it's hard to kind of hold the experience of feeling the attachment in the same way that you used to, and trust that you're still connected, even as they're individuating and pushing you away. Because that push away is so hard. It's so hard for parents, especially when we have more anxious attachment, or disorganized attachment, or attachments, you know?

Scottie Durrett  25:24  
And it's actually leading into that. Let's talk about the eye rolls and the attitude and the door slams and the snapping and the shutting down, maybe the maybe the kid was the Snuggler and the talker, and then all of a sudden they're not talking to you. What's going on in the brain and the body. And is that normal? You know, if you have the kid that used to come and snuggle with you and tell you everything, and now they give you the monosyllabic like nothings, or they're not even talking to you at all, and maybe they're choosing the other parent, or they're choosing the friends and your feelings are hurt, or maybe, do you let that go? You know what's going on in the brain, and how can a mom respond? And is this normal,

Speaker 1  26:06  
100% normal, even though it sucks. Thank you. I mean, yeah. I mean and, and just because we can tell ourselves, okay, this is normal, this is normal, doesn't mean it's also not allowed to suck. Okay, it's just that, how much are you putting, how much are you putting that kind of pressure to have them operate the way they used to, into the relationship, rather than, Oh, this is really hard. How do I regulate through this? How do I kind of understand that this is normal and also give myself, like, my own cuddles to help myself, like, kind of heal or cuddle or caress the parts of us that are like feeling loss. Because I think that's what's happening, is there's a loss of a childhood. It's 100% 100% normal, okay, and it's going to look and play out differently with every single kiddo, but what you were describing pretty typical right now, I think there's an instinct for parents when they feel that push away, for some parents to then say they don't want anything to do me with they don't want anything to do with me anymore. So I'm out, right? Like, not I'm out, but, like, I'm gonna just let them be, be them and cool. Like, now is their own stuff getting triggered? Is, are you putting up a protective wall? I think it's a real trap, because it's not personal. Their push away. It feels personal, but it's not personal. It's actually a really healthy stage of development for them to be able their their brains again, are, you know, your brain is developing until your mid 20s, right mid to late 20s. So it's there again. Their brains are wired right now for instant gratification, for peer approval, and so they're looking for these dopamine hits, and it's usually not with you, like it's usually not with the parent. And so it's really, really hard to feel that you're not their go to in the same way that you weren't before. But that doesn't mean that they don't need you and actually want you, right? So that's where the trap is. I think some parents then pull away also as a form, as probably a measure, to protect their heart, right? Or maybe they're feeling injured, or maybe it's like, well, they're assuming their kids don't care anymore. So what's the point of trying to engage? I would really, I would honor the push. So they're setting a boundary. They're like, Mom, you're on my case. Like, stop. Or maybe you're just noticing you're they're not the one that they they want to cuddle up to and talk to and till bedtime anymore, right? It's how to honor that and also send the message like, hey, I can see that. I don't know. It looks like something's going on for you. I'm here if you want to talk, right? And if they're like, I don't want to talk, I my, I would probably say, Okay, I hear you if you decide you want, yeah, I'm here. Yeah, right. Give them the space. And then maybe the next day, on the car ride or wherever, there's those moments of, like, itty bits of connection that you get. It's how to say, how to check in. Hey, how you doing today? I noticed yesterday was kind of hard, right?

Scottie Durrett  29:24  
It's this hard. It's this hard, tough thing. And I say this a lot in with my moms, and my moms are tough, my high vibe, moms are tough. But it is this really tough moment, this radical responsibility that we have got to get our shit together so that we can always be there to handle their shit. And it is this moment where it it's, I, this is such an un romantic way to say it, but I was at this Women in Business Summit, and it's that's really is like, it's not personal, it's business and it's motherhood. Is one of those, like, least personal, personal things we'll always do, because that can. Kid. Thankfully, it's how amazing that that child is going to walk out the door and he or she does not actually have to look over his shoulder, because you've done such a great job that they are subconsciously knowing that you love them and you have their back. That is why they get to walk out and they don't have to literally be attached to you that you've done such a good job, right?

Speaker 1  30:25  
That's right. And I think what we don't get to see, right? We've been talking a lot about behavior validating, or trying to help it not validate. What we don't get to see is actually what we're doing through staying connected, is internalizing the connection, right? We don't get to see the internalization of our containment, of our impact, of our voice, of our messaging, right? That's inside of them, which is what you're hoping for when as they individuate, as they're testing it out in high school, still within your home, but then they go off to college or then they grow up and leave the nest. The Hope, actually, is that they have internalized a sense of security, containment, connection, because that is what's going to help with you feel the attachment and connection as they grow up and leave which, and I think what's so high, even as I say that, I mean, again, I don't know why I'm having all these memories come back. But like, as I was pushing out my first I was like, This is terrible. What do you mean, in 18 years, I'm gonna have to give him up? What? Like, why does anyone do this? You know, like I was, like, preemptively grieving already. And I mean, I think that there's something interesting that happens in teen years where you'll hear parents being like, I'm ready for them

Scottie Durrett  31:45  
to move. No, I just, I do believe I just my first one is off. She's 18, and we said goodbye. And it was interesting. The way I could describe it was she got too big for the house there was like, I couldn't even imagine her repeating what we did. I couldn't even have gone through senior year with her again. I think we both would have crumbled and passed out. We, we, we both grew out of it, and when I sent her off to college, I was so sad, but also she was so ready for it. I it's the way that they life just does work out. I'm not saying that a piece of my heart isn't a way for me right now, it is, but it's also like, it's also formed. There's something

Speaker 1  32:29  
that preps you too, right? It's like, kind of like when you're pregnant, if you thought of like, okay, you found out you're pregnant, you're having your baby tomorrow, it's like, what? Your brain can't catch up, right? And it's almost like that's what's happening when they're in high school, middle school, teen years, puberty starting younger these days, right? So it's like there's, there's a prepping, yeah, that's happening. And this is a really important prepping, nurturing time for everybody in the system. And so we don't want to abandon ship on that, even though those push it and pull feelings you're it's like everything in you is wanting to, like, yeah, yeah, right. So, and it's and it's normal, it's not, it's unavoidable. And actually, if it's not happening, I was curious, like, I wonder what's happening in the connection that isn't allowing for safety, for that maybe, you know, even though it's, you know, like it'd be great if my kids were more regulated

Scottie Durrett  33:29  
well, so I Okay, let's talk about a couple different scenarios. Maybe the mom is feeling, her feelings are really hurt right now. Maybe she's, you know, the kid is slamming the door in her face. He's saying, You're the worst mom ever. You don't get me. You're, you know, he's calling her names. He's, you know you're stupid. You don't. You know I hate you. And you know, she's just trying everything and nothing is working, and she's feeling, you know, she's died for him like she, you know, she's poured out her heart for him, and she's, he's hating her, you know, and she's trying everything, and she's got to get up tomorrow morning and make his lunch and dry, you know, how does, what does she do? Like, how is she fighting battle? Like you said, because she says she never wants to give up on him, but she is, her heart is cracking open. Like, what is she doing?

Speaker 1  34:16  
Yeah, it's so it's so hard. I mean, there's the aspect of, what is she doing for herself, individually? And then there's the parenting aspect, right? Which is, you know, if you're having a child who's, you know, calling you names and super dysregulated and saying, I hate you, which also can be normal, sorry, guys, like, you know it, and it doesn't mean you're failing. It, just, it's like, where's the Connect? How do I find my way into connection? Right? Hit, what is the behavior telling what is my child's behavior telling me actually about what they are needing? Okay, right? What is their behavior telling me about what they are needing? Their behavior is a symptom of something, right? And I think sometimes, as. Parents, we get kind of flustered and flooded, of course, with the behavior and trying to fix the behavior, but if we can start to get curious about what are they trying to communicate actually underneath the behavior? Now that's not to say we don't work on the behavior. We don't bypass that, but we can't find our doorway in unless we get curious about what's coming up underneath, or else you're just going to be continuing to be met with a power battle. So I'll give you kind of an example of what comes up when I think of this scenario. It's like, you know? So there's the individual work of how to kind of help remind our own nervous system like this is not personal. It just feels so rejecting. It feels, you know, it's like, how do I nurture and take care of that? Let's put, let's pin that for a moment. And how do we what kind of language can we use with child, right, with our with our kid, in that, in those kinds of examples. So maybe it's something like, Hey, I can see you are angry. You do not like me. It feels like I can feel it, right? It is okay for you to be angry you. I cannot let you disrespect me, right? So now, if they're in the midst of the daggers, that's tricky, because you're really in a perfect world, in a quote, unquote, perfect world wanting to help them down, like they're offline, they're out of their window of tolerance, which I can get into, if you want me to. But like they we want them to feel their feet on the ground, where they're in a more regulated state, and that's usually in an optimal world where the where the learning can happen. But if they're just like, like, spouting things, it's like, you are, I get it. You are angry. I need to take a few breaths, because this is I'm now offline, yeah, now I'm triggered, right? Like, yeah. So I need, I need to take a few minutes before I come back and we can have a conversation, right? So providing everyone safe, whatever you take those few minutes you come back, you say, are you ready? Can Can we? Can we talk and try to make sense out of all of that, no, I said, Libby, okay, you're not ready to talk, but we are going to have to talk about it at some Okay, okay, and so when there's now an opening, that's where I can say, I get the sense that you are so, so mad. I think sometimes parents jump into wanting to fix the behavior before we get curious, remember, we don't want those, those feelings to stay frozen. We want them to circulate. We want to help them try to make sense out of it. So I would, I would lean in first with curiosity, if you can, if you're not ready to be curious, then you're not ready to repair either. Okay, for a second, right? Okay, repair really comes from, are you? Do you have the capacity to feel curious and empathic even while holding your own sense of self? It doesn't mean abandon self, right? So if you can stay cure, it seems like you are so mad. I want to understand. I mean, we've been in this like we've been in this dance for so long. Help Me Understand, you know, and it's okay if they can't come up with the words. It seems like it's hard to even express it, but what I'm taking away is that you feel like oppressed by me, or, yeah, you feel like powerless. Is that? Am I getting that right? Check in, am I get Am I hearing you right? No, I'm feeling great, like it's great like, it's great when you're wrong, because then you get more right. It's like, okay, I'm hearing you. Then as you notice his or her nervous system starting to, like, the shoulders start they're a little bit loose. That's when you're like, I get it. I You can be mad. I want to try to figure this out between us, because this is not feeling good for you. It's not feeling good for me. I can't be spoken to that way. Yeah, we got to figure out a different way to communicate the anger. Now, even though you have that conversation, I just want to forewarn you, it will likely happen again, and that doesn't mean that you're not doing a good job. You are planting seeds that when someone gets offline, we get reactive, and we're trying to continue to plant seeds so that the room the margin of reactivity lessens each time.

Scottie Durrett  39:14  
Okay, so it wouldn't be this conversation. It won't. The communication is working, even if this thing repeats itself,

Speaker 1  39:23  
yes, because you're, you're looking right now for the behavior to validate whether it's working or not. And I'm telling you right now in a teen's brain and in our human brain and mom hormonal brain,

Scottie Durrett  39:35  
where, what a relationship

Speaker 1  39:37  
myself, I'm in perimenopause. I just want to, just want to announce that, you know, it's like,

Speaker 2  39:46  
What a sad, what? How do you what? That's this cruel, cruel thing.

Scottie Durrett  39:52  
I mean, who decided that they were going to marry pre teen and teens with a perimenopause Mom Brain? They were. Like this. Let's see what happens when we put these guys

Speaker 1  40:02  
together, cruel, sick joke, like, who ever made up that testing was wrong? There's not many right or wrong, black or right that was wrong, you know. So like, it's just, you know, again, it's and when we get offline, it's almost like the expectation that someone you know think about, if you're married with a partner, or whatever, you come like your partner has a complaint, and then they talk to you about like the behavior, and you're also you're repairing, and then all of a sudden it happens again. The expectation that we're not going to mess up again and have the same fight over just different day, I think, is really unrealistic. It's how do we stay connected? How do we repair? How do we actually start to help them feel that there's a lot of flexibility in our relationship? It's not like you have, I've, we've talked about this. How come it isn't fixed?

Scottie Durrett  40:55  
Oh, I see, yeah, it's like, we also have to allow them. It's even though they're our child and their quote, I guess, below us, you know, even though I said, so, that's right, you know,

Speaker 1  41:05  
yeah, uh oh, this happened again, like this. So help me, uh oh, here we are again, right? Even that alone is like connecting. Uh oh, we're Uh oh, here we are. There was the name calling again. Uh oh, okay, I can see that you're feeling big feelings. What are you feeling like? What? Let's try to make sense out of it. Again, it's okay.

Scottie Durrett  41:27  
And that same approach can go with the kid, if they're lying, if they're cheating, if they're drinking, if they're sneaking out, it's kind of these are all symptoms, right? These are all symptoms you're talking about. These behaviors, or all symptoms, to probably something that they're they're like you said, are having a hard time putting words to

Speaker 1  41:46  
Yes, and maybe, like, drinking, right? Like, maybe the underlying need is, I just want to be with my friends, like, that's what my friends are doing. That's what my friends are doing, right? And so, oh, if we could have that conversation with them and say, I get it. Oh, my God, of course. You're wanting to feel connected. Was there any sign that was telling you that you didn't want to do this, but you felt like you had to, like you're helping them. Illuminate dilemma. Dilemma is like a big word for me. So around like, how do we how do what do we listen to in that moment, it is so tricky. Now I'm so glad you bring up lying and you know behaviors that like, let's say you've put limits on social media, or they're drinking, or they're smoking, or they're doing these behaviors where it's like, oh, or they're lying about cheating or whatever. I it's really hard, but I have this like, idea that this idea of a bubble that I introduced to younger kiddos, but it's okay, doesn't matter. You can introduce it at any time, where, if you come to me and are honest about something you've lied about, or a tricky situation, I will not get mad, right? It's really fucking hard. It's really hard, but, but what are we doing in that moment? Right? So if you're if we have this idea of the bubble, it's like, if you want to come it's like, Hey, Mom, I need to tell you something in the bubble. It's like, I'm Ram feeling my feet on the ground, and I'm like, whatever is coming to me, I have to keep my cool. But why? I would much rather my child come to me and tell me, I did this thing, and I can help process the shame. I can help process that and then reinforce I'm again, I'm so glad you're telling me about this. This sounds like it was really hard. Let's try to make sense out of it, you know, so and it's not that you're condoning the behavior. What you're actually doing is you're reinforcing, Thank God you came to me. Thank God we have the kind of relationship where you can come to me and if they're feeling like my mom's gonna lose her, like there's no way I can, my mom cannot know about this. Yeah, and they're alone with it. And then if it happens that they don't get caught, it reinforces the lying like, so it's, it's like we want to feel like we're allowing space for them to mess up, to come to us so that we can work

Scottie Durrett  44:18  
through it. Yeah, you'd rather a mess up with you. We have this thing where we started this New Year's Eve, they were allowed to get tell us this one, get out of jail free card, like every New Year's Eve. Then I started to notice that throughout the year they would say, Hey, can I get one of those? Get out, get out of jail free cards right now. I was like, absolutely. And then all of a sudden, it just would happen all the time, all the time. And I was like, Absolutely, I didn't even keep count. I was like, Oh, for sure, you can have one of those, like you said. I was like, We didn't mean we weren't gonna sit down and talk about it. But I was like, you can tell me.

Speaker 1  45:00  
Anything that's right. What a beautiful that. Mean, it's the same concept, right? Same.

Scottie Durrett  45:04  
I love it. Whatever feels good. But I mean, yes, I would rather them learn if you're in trouble, I want you to know that you can come to me no matter what, and we will get through it. Doesn't mean there's not going to be a something, but I'd rather you learn how to process it with me before you have to go out in the world, right?

Speaker 1  45:24  
And what? What is happening in our nervous system when our kids lie? There could be a number of things, but come staying on this track of validation in behavior, it's like, if they make a mistake and you're like, I taught what? I taught you, how are how are you doing that? I told you, you know that that's bad, okay? Like, what is art? Did we fail them? No, we didn't fail them. They're being tested in a way that their brain is like, oh, yeah, that's fun. Over there, squirrel, like, like, like, my friends are doing that. Cool. You know? We're just wanting to help also, like, activate, turn online. The other part of them that's like, wait a minute, that voice that my mom had that I really am not wanting to listen to right now. Like, okay, maybe I'm still making the decision, but at least you're helping them, like, think through it in a way that holds on to different parts of themselves.

Scottie Durrett  46:16  
Yeah, and in your life, what you're also training us, mom, since we've never gone through this before either, let's remember that too, right? Like we didn't go to mom school and never been through it. Also teaching us that doesn't mean that they're bad and that they hate us, right? Like they're also learning it doesn't mean that, like the world is over and like, it doesn't mean that there's no sticks and

Speaker 1  46:40  
assholes, right? They actually, they will not tell you this or validate this for you, but they are actually needing to feel safe and contained. That is what they are needing, whether, and they're never going to admit to it. They're because they're in the push state, they're in the individuation state, where they're like, it's too much, mom. Back off, back off, back off. I want to go over here. I want to be with my friends. I want to do this. I want to do that. I'm autonomous. I'm feeling my autonomy. I'm feeling my freedom. So they're not going to be like, Hey, I'm feeling my freedom. But also thank you for being my self, place to land, you know,

Scottie Durrett  47:12  
just like what you were saying before, it's like that, just like full circled everything, right? Yes, amazing, yes.

Speaker 1  47:19  
They're not bad, and at the same time, you're also not bad. You're not messing up, either you're confronting their individuation. And this is where, as parents, there's an opportunity if we're not shutting down. So again, got to come back to our nervous systems first, if we can stay like or I was going to say if we can stay not shut down, but that's not realistic. So we are going to shut down, or we are going to get our are going to get offline. How do we get back online so that then we can help them through this tricky individuation process without collapsing because we're feeling so so rejected, because that is not personal. It is a healthy, normal stage of development. That actually sets them up like you were explaining your daughter for them to thrive on their own later.

Scottie Durrett  48:11  
Yeah, right, but what you were also saying, but our voice is in there. It's just that we don't get those little gold stars. We just have to believe that the voice is in there, and I guess no news is good news, right? Like, no news is good news that you know we don't, you know. Just like trusting that if they are not calling us and saying, I'm miserable, you know, like if you're knowing that they're thriving, just trust that they like your voice is in their head, right? And it's, it is. It's the most impersonal, personal role in the world.

Speaker 1  48:42  
It's hard, yeah, and that they're going to be different too, right? And difference is hard, right? Yeah, difference and finding their own voice is is tricky. And also, how do we stay curious and connected about who they are in their own voice, with the way they're internalizing our values, our messages as parents, you know? And we just hope that the differences that that start to happen are not necessarily choices that are putting them in danger, right? Yes, and I think that that's a big differentiation that we can make, is like they're doing something that I don't love. But is this putting them in danger, or is it like, is this a moment where I actually have to step in or allow them to kind of figure it out on their own, you know?

Scottie Durrett  49:35  
So the sideline being in the sideline right, like it's it's also that decision where you realize I'm not on the stage with them, actually, I'm in the audience, right? And a lot of that means I have to be quiet and I have to sit and I have to watch, and I have to enjoy and wait

Speaker 1  49:54  
and wait. And that's why, especially with Yeah, and especially with teens, that's why I like sometimes. Ask, like, is this something that you want to want help thinking through? Because sometimes it's just they want to just dump and unload. And oftentimes they're okay the next day, yeah, we're not okay. We're like, Oh my God. Like, we've been up all night trying to be like, how, my God, I'm so worried about her, and she's sitting alone at the button, or kids, or her friends, or, oh my god, there was a Snapchat, and she was Yeah, and like, the next day, they're fine, and it's like, wait, wait a minute, it's like, they're on this roller coaster, and we're still, like, feeling the ripple effect of their in like, like they're oftentimes, they just needed to unload on you. Oh yeah, yeah.

Scottie Durrett  50:39  
I know my daughter called me at one point, we had this conversation, and it was exactly what you talked about. We were on the upside down roller coaster, and you know, she said, Okay, I have to go, but I'll call you tomorrow. And of course, she didn't call me, and I was by the phone waiting, and then she finally called me, and I said, what? You know, I was on the edge. And she was like, Oh, hey, I was bored. I was like, wait, what? I didn't sleep for 12 and a half years and you're bored. She was like, what? That's good? I said, sport. I was like, okay, all right, yeah, I'm gonna go for a walk and hug a tree. Well, okay, so one of the things, I mean, it is different raising kids today. It's different because of just life and exposure. But, and I do want to talk because you are specifically creating something very different. And I think because the kids are exposed to social media, there's some positives and negatives to that. I do want to talk about one of the positives that you specifically have created, and that's, you know, some tools that I think can help parents nowadays. And I do want to talk about, you know, how they can reach you, how you can help them, and just what you've created that can help moms nowadays, how we can use the differences to help us now, not think that we aren't helpless, right? Like, how can we catch ourselves up? I think one of the things that you know, we're whole, we're not broken. There's nothing wrong with us. We don't need fixing. I think what's going on is our environment is changing really quickly. Our nervous system not is not necessarily catching up as quickly as the environment, but we're incredible, and we can do things to help us out, right? So first of all, how can they reach you? How can you support moms? And what are some tools that you have available that can help parents. I won't definitely reach share all that

Speaker 1  52:23  
absolutely so you can certainly find me on Instagram at at Ciri rose therapy, and I have, I do have a parenting connected community where you can get a live call with me monthly, as well as I, you know, upload resources as I hear different kind of pain points and themes that are coming up often amongst the community. I just keep creating resources. But I also created, and this is I just feel like it's so bonkers this world of technology that we're living in, and I'm like, let's join it. So I created

Scottie Durrett  52:54  
that's a good way to say it, let's just join it. Let's just join it.

Speaker 1  52:59  
So I did create Ceres says it's an AI custom GPT that I built. And I'm telling you, like, I have clients that are using it between session. So what it is, is it's basically like you can text me only it's not me, it's my it's my therapist brain, my clinical brain that I've I've uploaded years and years worth of lectures, I've done materials that I've put together for trainings, and I've curated it specifically to give parents to answer literally any parenting question that's coming up and helps you walk through tricky moments. It will give you a script of what to say to them. It will also give you actually a script of what to say to yourself, to help keep yourself grounded in those moments, and then, like, if you are like, Yeah, I tried that. It's not working, it will literally hold your hand and troubleshoot with you every single tricky moment. And it's not, you know, I want to be really clear with this AI world, it is not a replacement for therapy, but it is a really, really good parenting tool that, honestly, it's like, shoot. Like, if you've had therapy and you're like, What did my therapist tell me to say, yeah, what am I supposed to say in this moment? So I have, you know people that are using it, let's say in the moment, but some, oftentimes, they're using it, like scrolling in bed at night, where they're like, reflecting on the day and feeling like, I don't know what to do. That was a hard day. Sometimes you're escaping in the bathroom and you're like, so it will help regulate you. It will start to illuminate. If there's inner child work maybe that you have to do. It's really cool. And so I just, I believe in it so much. I think it's very, very helpful. So I, you know, there's special discounts that I want to give to your community, right? It can link them and stuff, but, you know, I just want to help make it accessible and help hold everyone's hand through it, because

Scottie Durrett  54:47  
it's so hard. I think it's incredible, and I especially just what you said, why not? Let's find some ways for I think nowadays, people are feeling very anxious about AI and. And the exposure of technology for their kids. Why can't we find ways for this to come back and actually support us? And motherhood can feel very lonely, very isolating and very overwhelming, and this is such an amazing tool that can help a mom just get out of fight or flight, take a pause, catch her breath, and like you said, in that moment when her kid is in fight or flight, what if she's the one that can get her feet on the ground and help herself take that deep breath and say, How do I want to respond in this moment, you know? How do I want to be the one that can catch what they are throwing at me, right? And to be, you know? And I think that, gosh, if that's what you can do today, that you will sleep better tonight, right? I think just, and that, to me, is just such a strength. It gives me goosebumps. Because I think for a lot of us, sometimes it's really hard to even get through the day, you know. So I love that you've built that. What a beautiful tool. So thank you, and I'll link everything in the show notes. Well, I love this. This might be one of my favorite podcasts I've ever done. I think it's, yeah, I think it's incredible. I you know, because I think there's a lot of moms out there. It's, I love my mom community. I have a lot of moms at different ages, and I think there are a lot of questions that they have, and I think every experience is so personal, and not every baby no baby book is written about your kid, right? And I think everything can feel very generic. And it's

Speaker 1  56:22  
that's kind of my my feeling is that, you know, I think a lot of things are like a one size fits all that I think is great to help kind of that foundational, like footing. But there's so many unique challenges specifically for your nervous system, for your child's nervous system. And, you know, the more I can create a little bit more, like high touch access that isn't as costly, let's say, as weekly therapy, although I believe in that too, is I just, I think it's I think it's helpful. So thank you so much for having me.

Scottie Durrett  56:50  
I know I have one more thing before we go. What is your favorite way to build connection? What is one tip that you have to build connection between a mom and her kid that you would recommend she tried this week.

Speaker 1  57:01  
Oh, that's so good. I honestly think a doorway in his music, to be honest. Oh, okay, music. I love that. I love, you know, like I I love hearing what my kids are into. I think it's really telling. And I would not, I would try not to judge their music choice, especially in teen years where, like, you get to, like, you know, feel connected through through that. There's also so much you could learn about them with, like, the lyrics and the vibe and the this and the that. So, I mean, that's a little tiny, that's a huge bit, you know. And the last little bit is just to try to what's one thing you can do to be curious about your kids experience this week. Like, what's one thing you can do to just interrupt the immediate reaction of, like, wait, wait. You said what you did? What? Wait, what happened? It's like, Whoa, my gosh. How was that for you? Love it. Amazing.

Scottie Durrett  57:58  
Thank you. Loved it. You're incredible. You too. Everything will be in the show notes. Y'all go reach out to her today. Love it. Thank you so much. You're welcome. Bye. Hey Mama, thank you so much for listening before you dive back into the beautiful chaos of your life, please take this with you. You're doing better than you think. You are not alone, and you do not have to do this on autopilot. If this episode helped you in any way, please share it with a mom who needs to hear it, because we grow faster when we do it together. And if you have a second leaving a five star review helps momplex reach more mamas who need this kind of real talk and support. If you want more support and guidance or just someone in your corner, be sure to visit Scotty durrett.com to learn more. Get in touch with me or dive deeper into this work, until next time. Mom, Trust yourself, trust your gut. You already know what to do, and you are exactly the mama your kids need. I love you. I'll see you next time you.