The Noise Is Coming: Leslee Holliday’s Playbook for Sports Parents

Matt Cundill  00:00

Todd, this is the mental approach, where we discuss mindfulness, mental performance, and the tools available for coping in a high-performance world. Here's Todd Arkell.

 

Speaker 1  00:12

Welcome to The Mental Approach. And today's guest is Leslie Holiday. I came across a post that Leslie made at the end of August, and it sort of struck a chord with me, and I think it would with you guys as well, if you go to her Instagram, but she talks about how she, she dialed in to watch her son Jackson, who plays for the Baltimore Orioles on TV, and and heard both her son and another player being sort of degraded by the announcer, and how she felt badly for the teammate's mom, and they'd been through this kind of thing as she was married to Matt Holliday, and she's kind of been through this journey, but then was concerned about other parents who might have been through this type of journey, and she provided a bunch of great advice in about a six or seven slide Instagram post, and it really stuck with me that these are people, and they're out there trying to do their best. So, listen in. I hope you enjoy the show. It's a great one. Leslie was married to MLB baseball player Matt Holliday, his mom to four kids, including two that baseball people might know, Ethan and Jackson, but it, and you're also a podcaster, but it seems kind of not appropriate to just tag you with everybody else's accomplishments. How would you, how would you introduce yourself? Leslie,

 

Speaker 2  01:39

oh, I'm totally fine, I'm totally fine with that. Yep, married for be 25 years in December, and we do have four kids, and we have four dogs, and yeah, all of those things. I'm great with all those things.

 

Speaker 1  01:52

Okay, that's awesome. I always feel like it's like people have to have their own personality too, or maybe from stuff that I've read, you, you've kind of made your personality around the family, and making sure the family was together and being taken care of. If that's if that's a fair statement. I have lots of questions, but I want to tell the listeners the reason we're here is Leslie made a post on Instagram a little while ago, I think it was near the end of August, and it caught my eye, and I just thought it was very honest, and I think today a lot of people aren't necessarily always honest. They try to keep things to themselves and their own business, but I will, I'll share kind of part of it, and maybe want you to walk through some of that. That's not all we're going to talk about, but I just want people to kind of get the context, so that it started with this, and it was, it was like four or five pages, so it was a bit of a, it was a bit of a chapter to parents and people out there that have kids in sports. The holiday boys have had a tough month after 20 years riding the highs and lows of Matt's career. You'd think I'd be fully prepared for my son's journey. I'm not. It's still hard. So, paraphrasing, Leslie pulled up her phone and was watching some of her son Jackson's game, and heard one of the announcers, maybe not speaking very nicely about her son and another teammate, and just the comment about, you know, it's kind of hard to take, you know, not take it personally, you know, because even though you know that that's part of the territory, it is what it is, but some of the areas, and I wanted you to talk about it, that you kind of went on to try to give people some advice, and the first piece was encourage your kid to bring his identity into the game. Can you explain that in your own, in your own words?

 

Speaker 2  03:37

When I was, I mean, it was just sort of an accident, right, like I was just kind of flipping through, you know, about to put on Jackson's game. I was at the vet with my dog, and, and I was like, oh, that was, that was aggressive, you know, just like listening to it on on the TV, and I wasn't as concerned about the negative comments, or, you know, that's fine, like that, it, like you said, and is very true, like that is part of this job in this career in sports, but I kind of did it, did sort of, it did sort of, I just sort of thought, man, I wonder what his parents thought, like the teammates' parents thought, I mean, they, they weren't raised in this, you know, and so that's sort of why I wrote what I wrote, just because I hurt for families that have this child that has this athletic ability that will play beyond, you know, high school, and maybe they just don't quite know how to navigate the space where it's a very.. it's just not a solid, it's not a solid place to stand. And so, yeah, you do have to know who you are, and for me, I mean, our family, like we're, we're a Christian family, and so when we think about identity, we think about that being aligned with our relationship with Christ. That's not everyone's story, that's our story. And so, but it's very important for families to kind of have these conversations with their athletes and help them understand that who they are as men or women, you want to bring. That identity into the playing field, and don't be tempted to take your identity from it, because the thing about it is, is it's a very unsettling thing, and so in baseball it's like one for three, you have a pretty good shot to be in the hall of fame. Well, you're failing a lot, right? And so it's like, if you draw from the game, you're gonna think you're the greatest of all time on a Monday, and you're the worst on a Tuesday. It just is too super unsteady, and you just don't. You want to train your kids, so they understand that you know there is part of them that they can protect, and they can just.. it can be fixed, and it can just be firm, but yet you bring it into the area of competition, you know, so I think that's an important lesson for young athletes to learn, and they can continue to develop their skills as they get older.

 

Speaker 1  05:47

Yeah, and I think it's worth, like, personally, I think it's worse in baseball, because it is such a failure-based sport, where you know other ones you kind of fail, but nobody kind of.. it doesn't seem to have the same magnitude, it's such a unique environment that you're playing a team game, but you're the guy, like something that you do affects the outcome, and as opposed to football, where you need everybody on the field to be blocking, and you know all these different things that have to happen for a play, where it's more together, whereas baseball, if you hit a big home run, you're a hero. If you strike out, you're a goat. And it's just.. and everybody has an opinion. So, I agree, it's definitely something you know. I think just with any sport, is if you just think that the sport is you, then that makes it really difficult when things aren't going well.

 

Speaker 2  06:39

Sports are the greatest in the worst.

 

Speaker 1  06:42

Yes, I would agree. I would agree with that. So, the next, the next point you kind of put together was the noise is coming. Have a plan, so maybe talk about that.

 

Speaker 2  06:55

Yeah, I just think that it's just part of it, and I mean, these, the athletes, now I'm so impressed with them, because they've, they're learning how to navigate social media, and I think a lot of them have done it really, really well. I wasn't raised in that, and so I tell my kids all the time, I'm like, teach me about it, you know, help me understand what you're thinking, or how this is impacting you, and so I do think it's very important that you have a plan, and so, because it's the culture that that everyone is in right now is there has to be a story now, and there's very few you just don't hear it very often, like you know what they're hanging in there, we're rooting for them to figure it out, like it's just so polarized, it's like they're either the greatest of all time or they're the worst, and so you have to understand that that is the job that you have been assigned to, like, this is your current place of employment, maybe your mission, so to speak, that this is what you are doing and what you're responsible to be doing, and so you just need to have a strategy, whether that may be, you know, eliminating social media for a while, or just taking yourself off of it, or just, I don't know, I think that that's a personal thing for every family, but I do think that again, if you're entering athletics, I think that you have to understand that this is part of it, and so you do need to have a strategy and a plan, and know, and kind of know where you are in it, and so, like, you know, I know I know players and athletes that are very well known that they've never even thought about social media, and then I know athletes that do it because they like it, and that's okay, but I think that you just need to kind of have a plan and protect yourself a little bit when things get, you know, and it starts to impact your heart and your mind, and you kind of are, or yeah, in the deep end with all that you need to figure out how you're gonna back away, right? So, yeah, you have to have a plan.

 

Speaker 1  08:43

Yeah, I don't.. I don't know how hardwired we are as individuals to read people saying negative stuff about you. I don't think it does go well for the ego. What do you mean? I'm like, I'm trying to try really hard, you know. And it's funny, I'm just.. I'm even thinking, as a example, right now, the Detroit Tigers, and they are absolutely falling off a cliff. There is no.. there's no mat to catch them. It is, and I watch the online rhetoric, is just.. it's so bad, and I feel so badly for these players, it's I not only is it a team that I'm a fan of, but it's.. it's just all year I was like, "Oh, that's cool, look at them, they're like, first, that's weird. How are they first in baseball? Like, that's so fun. Good for them. And then it's gone to a way, like people are talking about Riley Green, that he said over 30 home runs, he has over 100 RBIs, and they're like, "Yeah, but he struck out 200 times. Okay, like, I don't know, like, there's, you know, there's lots worse things, and I even think of Jackson's team as well, the Orioles. This is not the season that was expected for them, and you know, a very young group, and they all got to figure out a way to kind of regroup and come back. Next year, and change that narrative, try to figure out what happened, you know, and, and I think a lot of ways, most of it's outside of your control.

 

Speaker 2  10:08

Oh, yeah, most of it is outside of your control. So,

 

Speaker 1  10:11

you can have a plan, but it does, it doesn't always come to that. Some of the other things I like that you brought up was, you know, let failure be an honest teacher.

 

Speaker 2  10:20

Yeah, you have to have a strategy for failure, and you know, because it's coming, and so, and I think a lot of people are just afraid of it, you know, and it can be the greatest gift in a lot of ways, like, you know, I just feel like, obviously, in baseball, if you can honestly assess your strengths and your weaknesses, you're way far ahead of the game, and so it's just a funny dynamic for me. I've seen it for many years, like, like it's just like you don't want to admit that you can't do it all. Well, the problem with that is, is that you're competing against people that know how to evaluate their strengths and their weaknesses, and they start to work on the things that they're not excellent at. No one's great at all things, and so, and I mean, you study, and you read about Kobe Bryant and Michael Jordan and Dennis Rodman, I think, is super fascinating, and you start to look into, like, their their path and their work ethic, and the things that that they did to be the greatest of all time at their particular, you know, sport at their time, and in a lot of it had to do with the fact that they weren't afraid to fail and they weren't afraid to work, and so I think that those things are incredibly valuable, and, but it's interesting, it's kind of like, you know, people are so afraid to fail, and instead just look at it as an opportunity, and so if you keep, you know, running into trouble with whatever that thing may be, well, work on that thing, and so it's an opportunity to grow, but and as parents, don't freak out, and so if your kid, you know, like Ethan, our second one, he's striking out a lot right now. All right, let's work on it, you know what I mean, like whatever, you can, you can keep striking out if we don't address it right, and so no big deal, just just get to work, and so just evaluate honestly, and so I think that that really will help you in sport, but also in marriage and parenting, and all of these things. And so I think we could do a better job in life if we would just assess the things we're not that great at and try to get better.

 

Speaker 1  12:16

How are some ways that you've instilled that in your kids as far as self-assessment or supporting, you know, reflecting on themselves,

 

Speaker 2  12:28

whenever they were, they were in high school, I think, is kind of when it very first started, like when they were kids. I just, you know, Matt was playing, and I would just take them all over in St. Louis. We lived there, and we also lived in Jupiter, Florida. So they primarily played their youth sports, and you know, in those two places. And I mean, you don't really say a whole lot, then you just put them on teams. My rule was, is I would prefer that they were on teams where they weren't the best player on the team, so they always played up, because I thought that it would be valuable to their development when we, when we learned that they really were passionate about the game, we thought about ways, how could we put them in positions to where they really understand at a young age that work ethic is a part of this, and so because when you are raised by a dad that played professional baseball and all your friends' dads played professional baseball. I never wanted my kids to think, oh yeah, I'm born into this, like I'm going to play professional baseball, and so because they didn't see all the things that went in in these guys' lives when they were their age, right? And so I heard this teacher speak one time, his name is John Maxwell, and he's just this older wise man, and he says that people come up to him sometimes and they say to him, man, I want to do what you do, and he said, well, then you better do what I did, and when he said that, I was kind of like, is that not the most brilliant thing you've ever heard, very simple, but very brilliant, and so I always put my kids in a position where they were challenged, and we would just see if they had it in them to want to work hard and want to be great, and like rise to this, rise to the challenge, and so that was something that that we did when they were really young, and I think it did help, and as far as assessing things like just little things, like Jackson, when he was playing travel ball, or he was in high school, and he would be challenged by a certain pitch, he was, he was okay with it, and he would say, well, I need to work on this, and I need to, you know, this is something that I haven't been seeing this really well, and you know, and like this, this off season, I mean, he's been very open about the fact that he's very fast, but his strategy in stealing bases, it needs to change, and so, like, now, like, towards the latter half of the season, I've noticed that he has, you know, made some adjustments to where he is having more success, but he's not afraid to admit I'm not great at that yet, but he uses that language because he knows that there will be a time that I will be more competitive in this area, and so. And it's just little things like he's obviously never in his whole life hit 250 or whatever it is that he's hitting like that, that's never really been like he would have you know that's just he's not comfortable there and that's a great thing to not be comfortable with the numbers that he has, but he also should be very proud of what he's accomplished, he's 21 leading the team in home runs, and he's hitting around league average. I don't know what league average is, but he's not doing horrible, but there's still more to do, and I love that you can talk to him, and he has a couple games left in the season, and he's already thinking about ways to improve, because he cares, and he's not afraid to say I have things to work on, and so I think that's, that's a great thing, you know.

 

Speaker 1  15:44

I couldn't agree more. I think it, it is, does show. I mean, you have to be committed to that craft, and I think to your point, you're saying do what I did. It is, you know, and it's interesting, like when you think about, you look, a lot of ex-major league baseball players, and ones who were very, very good, and you know, all of a sudden their kids are thrust into the scene. You got Vladdy Jr, you got Bob Bisht, you have Jackson and Ethan and Ken Griffey Jr, and you know all these different kids kind of coming along, and you go like, wow, it must have been so easy for them. I don't think it's any easier, but I think there's that thought where people go, oh well, of course, now maybe they had an advantage of being around the game, but I don't think that that necessarily means you're going to end up being a professional baseball player.

 

Speaker 2  16:38

Oh gosh, no, I mean, there's lots of stories of kids that you know, I think that I think where the advantages I've thought about this a lot, I think where the advantages is that they believe it's possible, and so, and I think that, like, we live in Stillwater, Oklahoma, and it's a school, like a college town, and I've noticed that in, in this is a different sort of illustration, but the cheerleaders and the palm. I have a daughter that's cheerleader. Well, it's hard to make a Oklahoma State cheer squad, right? But these girls don't think so, because they watch them every single Saturday, and they watch them do their thing, and they know them, and they ask them questions, and they're like, How do I get there, you know? And they start to, they start to believe is true for them, because they've had access to, to them. Do you know, and it's just like going to college in a college town, like I would. I would imagine, I don't know this for truth. I don't know if this is absolutely true, but I would imagine that Stillwater High School produces more college students than some other high schools in Oklahoma, because it's right here, and it's like, yeah, this is what we do. We graduate, and we go to college, and I think that that is the advantage that these young men have that were raised in locker rooms, is they think I might have a chance of doing this because they're around it, and they're immersed in the culture, and they know what it takes to be successful, and they work really, really hard at it, and so I don't know, and genetics, I'm sure it has something to do with it too, but I also think just what you're around it really can shape your life, you know. That's why it's very important to surround your kids with people that you don't mind that if they rub off on them, you know what I mean. I think that's important. I

 

Speaker 1  18:21

hear, well, they say, "Show me your five friends and I'll show you your future. Yes,

 

Speaker 2  18:25

that is such a true thing, right? And so some common phrases have tons of truth in them.

 

Speaker 1  18:32

No, absolutely. And I think I think the one thing you said was work, because I believe that's it, because I think you know there's lots of kids who are talented, and it's like, at what point do they understand, or does it become, you know, really come into focus for them that the work is what makes the difference, right? Because there's so many talented young soccer players, and volleyball players, and basketball players, but it seems that there is an underlying determination that drives that further.

 

Speaker 2  19:08

Oh, I agree.

 

Speaker 1  19:10

Yeah,

 

Speaker 2  19:10

I totally agree. Yeah, and working on the right things, and you, you know, like, and letting go of things that don't benefit your life, and I think that that's something that that I believe is rare, you know, for athletes, maybe even in the US, you know, it's like there are sacrifices that you have to make, and so your high school experience likely won't look like everybody else's if you want a life that's not going to look like everybody else's, and that's something that we would always tell our boys, we're just like, if you want to be different, you have to do different, like you're going to have to make sacrifices that most young men your age are not willing to make, but it's part of it, and so when you sign the contract to be a professional baseball player, you are competing against the world, and you are asked to be a man, and so this kid stuff, it's over, and you know, and we had those contracts. Conversations with the boys before they both decided to enter the draft, like Matt and I. Neither one of us made them do what they did, like we sat down with them, even three days before the draft, both of them, and we said, look, go to college if you want to go to college, but understand, if you say yes to the draft, you are saying yes to becoming a man like that, like it's over, and so because you are, you're getting insurance, you know, I mean, like you're doing man things, and so, and they were both like, yeah, we're ready, and so, in it, and they are, and now, is it going to be smooth? Are they going to have careers that are like math career? I don't know, and I don't need to know, but I do know that they're responsible enough to handle the challenge in front of them, and it's been awesome to see him so far do what they're doing. I'm really proud of them.

 

Speaker 1  20:46

You should be well. Parents should be proud of their kids, regardless, right? And it's, but it is your.. do you know what? When you have to do things in such a public way, yeah. I think they're there. I think they're handling it pretty good. This other part of what you wrote spoke so much to me, because I try to explain this to parents, you know, and I hate talking about my son, and you know, his baseball journey, but it's like I've not, I've tried not to compare, you talked about development isn't linear, don't panic, don't compare growth zigs and zags, 1218, 21 focus on discipline and process, not perfection. Can't say it enough. Do not compare your athletes' pace with another. Embrace their pace, Mama. That's such good advice. And I wish more people would take that. I mean, you, you're looking at other people, go, oh, that person's doing that. Oh, we should do the same thing they're doing, but that's not. I just always say that's not your path, like everybody has a different path. And hey, this has been our experience, but I don't know if that's going to be your experience, right? You know it is what it is, and you know it's interesting. Even in this year, things have sort of clicked for my son, where he's been getting an abundance of opportunity, and it is almost overwhelming to it, like he's like, oh my, like the schedule is heavy, and he's like, wow, like, and I go see what they say, they say be careful what you wish for, right, so you put it out there, and this is what you want, right, and so then all of a sudden there has to be this, you know, recalibration of all right. How do I, how do I do this? How do I continue? You know, kind of taking it day by day and kind of going through those opportunities. So I think it, I think it really is big not to compare.

 

Speaker 2  22:33

Absolutely, I saw that in Matt's career is interesting. You know, we, we've been married since we were 21 and 20 years old, and so I've been at this a little while now, and we started dating when I was 19, and you spend as a baseball wife, you spend a lot of time by yourself in the stands, and you just observe things, you know, and the minor leagues, I mean, it's it's a grind, and so anyway, so I just remember even like Matt, Matt was honestly, he was kind of a slower, he was big and strong, but I remember I was pregnant with Jackson, and there were guys that were having more success than Matt, and I remember just the temptation that he had to not panic, you know, like, oh my gosh, we're all the same age, these guys are moving faster. I'm not moving as fast as I think I should, and like, there was always this, like, he just did such a good job of, I'm not going to panic, I'm just going to keep working, you know. And I remember I was pregnant with Jax, and he was a taxi squad member on the Arizona Fall League team, which means that you only play like twice a week, you're only allowed to play like twice a week, and his manager didn't even play him twice a week, so it was just kind of like a wild time for Matt, right? And his brother is a baseball coach at Oklahoma State, and his brother is a really good hitting coach, and I remember he was talking with Matt, and he was working with Matt on some things, and he came home, and he said, I figured out how to hit it, clicked for me today, and I thought, huh, and I mean, we were 23 four years old, and it was fascinating, because, honestly, it, it did, and so it's like, then he kind of got in some games, did really well. Was asked to play on the USA team by default. Someone got injured. He had an opportunity. He took advantage of that opportunity, did a wonderful job. Went back, we went back to Austin. He worked with his brother all off season, and then he made the big leagues the following year. And then the rest is history. And it was just so funny. And I remember thinking, as a young woman, well, isn't that interesting that it took this long for you to really understand who you are? Not, I mean, you know, obviously he's very, very young in this big scheme of things, but still it's like he was behind some of the people that he thought he should be right parallel with. Do you know, and then like as. I learned that really young, and then I just kind of saw that shake out throughout his career, and I saw that in my kids' little careers, like when they were young, and, and you've got the big boy that went through puberty when he was like seven, and he's crushing home runs over the fence all the time, and then Jackson's just this little like fast twitch athlete that you know can barely get it past the second baseman, but whatever, and so I just remember thinking, like, huh, this is wild, and then you see these parents that pretty much have their, their, you know, kiddo in the major leagues, you know, 12, and I was just kind of like, man, we shouldn't do that, and so we should just embrace their pace, encourage them, and see how it shakes out, instead of making all these declarations over their life, when they haven't gone through puberty, they haven't gotten the gym, they don't quite know how to eat right, they're not sure about how to sleep right, they don't really know who they are and how to like be in their bodies, like Ethan grew, he was, he grew like overnight, Jackson was a slower grower, and so it just all these kids are different, and the one thing they certainly don't need is for their parents to be comparing them to the other kid that is bigger and stronger than they are right now, and so I just don't think that that's beneficial.

 

Speaker 1  26:16

No, and again, you know, we are talking about baseball, but I think it goes for any sport. I mean, you just can't,

 

Speaker 2  26:22

for sure.

 

Speaker 1  26:23

I don't know, like, well, actually, I even think about a girl at my son's high school. Every award, you know, at the end of the year, she was like the top mark in French, English, math. It was just like hysterical, right? And it was like upper 90s in every class, like it just, and I'm going, yep, everybody else is sitting there going, my kids are dunce, right? If they're like, why is this kid winning every award? Just, she's super smart, she obviously works at it and cares, right? Because that's the other thing in high school, like, people that become good students, it's more about caring, they're all super intelligent, they're all smart, they all have the, it's getting that curiosity and that wanting to learn right to kind of go forward. So, if you start comparing, then you're starting to, starting to worry. I really believe it, and I, I leave it with, I had a, when I was coaching, you know, youth baseball, and I had a family that left us, I think they were seven or eight, because they didn't feel that I had the ability to get their son to college as a baseball player, so if you're listening, you know who you are, but they came back around, they came back a couple years later, but anyways, it's like, but just that I don't, I don't understand where people kind of get, maybe, maybe that's your last point, was get off social media, maybe that's where they get all these ideas, you know. It's, it's hard. I mean, you look at Striker Pence, is his name, you see this kid, he's busy 16, Hunter's nephew throw in like 91 and you're going, okay, how do you get, you can't compare any kid to that kid, like that's just like he's in his own category,

 

Speaker 2  28:01

and that's okay, and there's room for lots of great players, and, and that's what makes great teams, and so I think that there's a temptation sometimes, if we're being really honest, to root against these kids, and so I've seen it in travel ball, I've seen it in, I've seen it in the stands now, and like, you just hear it, you know, like, oh, you know, it's hard to cheer for people, and you want them to do well, but there's room in the major leagues, there's room on in the minor leagues, there's room in college, there's room in high school for lots of great players, and so I think it's important to kind of create a narrative in your home where you're not, you're so excited and rooting for, you know, Bobby, that's that's doing really well, because it relieves the pressure of your kid to think they have to be better than Bobby. Why don't we compliment Bobby and win a championship, you know? And so it's just like Matt played with a lot of amazing players over his career, and that's why he was a lot on a lot of really good teams, and it's fun to be on great teams, and it's fun to be with guys that maybe are better than you. Who cares? Like, it's there's room for great players always, and we should, I mean, this is a hard sport, and so can we teach our kids to cheer for others, even if at this particular time they might be better than you, I mean, I don't, I think that that's a great thing, and that's something I really admire about both of my boys, is that they're they're like little scouts, and they'll say they'll say so and so does this well, and this well, and this well, and like Ethan, you know, just got drafted, and he plays with a kid, I believe he's from the Dominican, he could be from Colombia, I need to ask. I probably shouldn't know this, but anyway, play second for the minor league team with Ethan on the Fresno team, and I mean, I didn't talk to Ethan one time when we would talk on the phone after games or before games that he didn't have something great to say about that kid, and he's like, 'Mom, tell you, he's gonna be a superstar, he's gonna be a superstar, because. Not threatened by other people's success, and I think that that is a good thing to teach your kids when they're young, because there's always, there's always someone that's really good, and it's a good thing to be surrounded by good players, you know, and so it doesn't impact you, it just, it's a good thing.

 

Speaker 1  30:20

No, it's a great, it's a great way to live. A good friend of my son's just got drafted to the Guardians. He's a pitcher, and when he originally had committed to Wake Forest, we kind of, the dad invited us to the house, and because I got to know the family a little bit as well through their friendship, and you know, he said to me, he goes, you know what, you know why I want you here is because you're the guy who told me the story about, you know, the crabs in the bucket, and helping everybody helps each other out, and, and I said, yeah, I mean, I just believe, especially coming from Canada, we're like the size of the state of California, we get like two or three kids drafted a year, maybe, if we're lucky, and you know,

 

Speaker 2  30:58

yeah,

 

Speaker 1  30:58

for kids, any kid from Canada who gets an opportunity in baseball, I'm more than happy to celebrate and cheer for, because that just proves goes back to our earlier what you said it's possible, and the more, the more Canadians that are playing college baseball are potentially playing, you know, professional baseball, it means it's possible, there's, you know, kids my son's age, and it's like, okay, well, they're not all outfielders, so should I complain, you know, should I? Maybe I won't cheer for the outfielders then. Well, that doesn't do any good either. It's like, I'm happy for everyone's success, because it means it's possible

 

Speaker 2  31:34

when we are tempted to not want to cheer for them, because I do think that that exists in all of our hearts, we have to figure out a way to get better, and so for me, I remember it wasn't really like that, but I remember being overwhelmed during Matt's career, just like with his success or failure, like I remember, you know, it's not easy to sit in the stands and watch him go oh for 20, or whatever it may be, like you get anxious, you know, like it's an anxious environment, because, and as a white, they put you in the family section, so you're usually, you know, at Cardinal Stadium, you're kind of right here, and then all it's just feels so.. is there anything else going on the world besides you going over 20? Do you know what I mean, like

 

Speaker 1  32:15

a fishbowl? Yes,

 

Speaker 2  32:16

and so I just remember what I would do is I would remove myself from that environment and just walk the concourse, and then just walk around and be like, oh my gosh, like, look at this, like, it just, the change of perspective gave me perspective, and it helps me, like, realize, like, man, I'm so grateful that this is what he gets to do for a living, and even if he doesn't get a hit again, which it looks like there's a chance he won't. It's like it's okay, you know, it's okay. And I just feel like, as parents, like it is heavy when you have a child that has a desire to do this thing, and you see them, it not going as planned, and you see these other kids just bypassing them, or whatever that thing may be, I think, as as parents, like, we're the adults in the room, and we have to figure out a way to remove ourselves from the heaviness and the anxiety and all the things that this does do to us, and say, like, okay, I need to take a walk, because I need to have a different perspective, so I can help him or her be all that they can be, and if they see me panicking, then they're certainly going to panic, and so I have to be the one that anchors this thing right now, because I know that this is what they want to do, and then help them understand that success doesn't mean it's like, what are we doing, like that you're only successful if you're Mike Trout, I guess, or whatever. I mean, even him, even he's been having some people talking mess on Mike Trout. I'm like, what's wrong with these people? Only,

 

Speaker 1  33:49

only 400 home runs. Don't worry about it. And imagine if he had never been injured, he, he'd have like 800 if he'd never been injured. No, you know, and, and a very, and a very good individual, a very good human, as well. You know, we had an opportunity to meet him just briefly once in Toronto, and he signed a ball for my son, and it's a very prized, you know, he was very young at the time, very prized possession that he has all kind of framed up, he, and he, you know, he didn't have to stop and talk to these kids, they had other things to do, right. So it's to watch that happen, you know, time and time again, because there's lots of people where kids are screaming, 'Hey, can you come inside? Like, I can't even, can't, like it's like seagulls. I'm imagining the noise constantly of everybody. And then, how do you.. you can't satisfy everybody, but you know, to watch him go through, you know, a stadium and just kind of try to take care of every kid, knowing that that's a big deal to them.

 

Speaker 2  34:47

Yeah, yeah, he's definitely represented baseball and his family with really well. I've enjoyed watching his career, for sure.

 

Matt Cundill  34:58

Now more of the mental. Approach with Todd Arkell.

 

Speaker 1  35:02

At one of the, one of the other things you wrote, it was a quote by Andy Bernard, which I loved. I wish there was a way to know you're in the good old days before you actually left them.

 

Speaker 2  35:14

In that great quote,

 

Speaker 1  35:15

unbelievable. I've never, never seen it before.

 

Speaker 2  35:18

That's a great quote. I mean, because they are right. I mean, think about it. It's just, it's just true. I think that I think we're just in such a time in our culture where we're just on to the next thing so quickly, and it's just sad, right? That being present and just experiencing life as it is, and you know, is it's it's a gift to be able to do that, and so I always tell Jackson and Chloe, Jackson's married, and he's married to a woman named Chloe, who I adore, and I'm just like, man, enjoy this. I was like, you guys have such a cool group of friends, and you know, because they do, I mean, all those guys are young, and they're in similar seasons of life, and like, these are good days, even though sometimes it doesn't feel like it. They're really good days, and you're going to look back on this with such fondness, you know. And same is true when you're raising kids, and what do they say, like long or short days, long years, or something like that. But I, it's very true, and I feel like we're just so just conditioned to rush to the next thing, and I don't know. I think that even though these days bring challenges, and we just, you know, want to control stuff, because we equate that with loving these people so much, we're like, ah, but I don't know if we can just take a breath and relax, and just realized that these are actually the good days, you know.

 

Speaker 1  36:43

Yeah, I ran into a guy the other day, my son was playing at Rogers Center. There was an event that the Blue Jays put on, and he used to coach him, and he came up to me and he said, "Oh, hey. He goes, "So happy to see him here, I'm so excited to see him here. And we're talking, and I remember he had gone to, he'd played at college. Another Canadian kid played at college in the US, and I said, "Yeah, I guess you know mom's a little stressed out. You know what? How you know the schools that are coming and talking and all these other things? She's like, "And I said, I'm kind of relaxed because I know it's not in our control, so I'm kind of just trying to enjoy it. And he goes, "Yeah, he goes, 'You know, my parents were telling me the other day they really kind of wish they had that time back because they didn't really fully enjoy the whole process when it was happening, right? Like, it was just like, 'Oh, we've got to, we got to get this done, and whatever. And then, okay, and then, oh, big, okay, big relief, and then on to the next, and it, you know, you're that quote when I read it, and everything else, it just kind of all flooded in, that yeah, I think we have this, we all have this in it, that we're trying to, okay, we'll be happy when, or yeah, when, yeah, as opposed to, and then you look back and go, oh, that was that was a good time, that was a good weekend, or whatever, right, so

 

Speaker 2  38:00

yeah, yeah,

 

Speaker 1  38:01

I love it. I'm gonna, I'm gonna have to try to memorize that quote, so I can throw it out there every once in a while when I use it. Enough about that social media post, but I think it was great. I think spontaneously, you know, speaking from the heart, it definitely gets people's attention, and I think it's, I really do believe it's, it's something, and it's that parents need to kind of zero in on, and even kids, right, to hear that message that there's, you know, give them their, that, that opportunity to fail. Don't worry about it, just keep moving forward, and do your thing, and you know, we always talk, you know, with my son, it's like, hey, just flush it, okay, on to the next. Figure it out, and it may not be better. The next game may not be better, but just whatever. And you know, he texted me yesterday. They're they're traveling around the US. He goes, well, I was one for two and strike out, and but I hit seven bombs in BP.

 

Speaker 2  39:00

There we go, found a win. I go, Uno,

 

Speaker 1  39:02

reverse card, maybe the other way, right? And he's laughing at me, and I'm just going, yeah, whatever, right. So he's at least he's feeling okay, I'm figuring some things out. It may not be translating or whatever, right. So I like, I like that, because it, I think it's so hard, man, not to be down on yourself when you're, when you're trying to strive for something, you know it's, it's really, it's really hard. So let me pivot a little bit, because I think you know you talked early about being a Christian in your faith. So I did want to ask about, you know, how did your, how did your upbringing, your faith, and personal experience kind of shape your views around success and competition, you know, as you guys were parenting your four kids.

 

Speaker 2  39:44

Yeah, I feel I, you know, I was raised, I was raised by ranchers, and so, like, my granddad was a rancher, my dad was a rancher. I grew up in a little town in Texas, and I don't know if there's a tougher kind of group. Of people than like those men, and I really do think that that did shape my perspective on what it looked like to be a man that trusted God, because when you are on, when you, when your business is ranching, you do have to depend on God in some ways, because it has to rain, and so, and I just remember being a little girl and sitting with my granddad, who was a huge man, and I would sit next to him, and he would, like, always, always talk about the rain gage that was in the front, you know, on the, in the front driveway, and I just, it just like this, funny, right, the things that you remember about being a little kid, and and he would always talk about that, and so, because if it doesn't rain, then the grass doesn't grow. If the grass doesn't grow, the cattle don't eat a whole whole lot, and you got to have fat cattle to make money when you're in the cattle business. And so, just so those things that you would just pick up as a little kid, and then you know you go to work with these guys, and and they're just tough, right. And then they, they love Jesus, and so I had an advantage as a little girl to see, like, men love the Lord, and so, and that did shape my perspective as a young woman. And then, you know, date Matt, Matt was also interested in the faith, and we get married, and we grow in our faith and our understanding of truly what it means to be a follower of Christ, and so I think that there's some misconceptions with with some people that don't spend a lot of time in the word of God, and so for me, like something I think is really cool is Jesus represents the lamb, which is gentle, obviously, and all the all the sweet things, but also the lion, and so there's a fierceness about our faith that I believe can be very much integrated in the way that we compete, in the way that we represent Christ in sport, and I do think that there is a responsibility to be the hardest worker as a Christian. You should be the hardest worker on the in the field, and, and you should, you know, compete with excellence, and you should, like, there's a standard that I believe, as a Christian, you should try to, to meet that, you know, and I think our relationship with Jesus does mandate this responsibility of, like, wringing out all the talent that God has given you, and in doing that, you know, I don't know, I think it's important, and that's what I see in the Bible, right? And so Jesus didn't halfway do things, he did things all the way, and so I don't know, that's just what we taught our kids, but like I said, I had an advantage growing up because I was around the baddest dudes in Texas that went to church on Sunday, took the cowboy hats off and loved the Lord, and so as a little girl, it just made a lot of sense to me that two things can be true at the same time. You can submit to a king, but you can, you can just be strong and fierce, and like be the very best version, or man, or whatever you want to call it, like there's a, there's a call to excellence, you know, and that's what we taught our kids, and, and then just in the locker room, like, how can you represent the lion in the lamb? Like, you compete, you're there for your teammates, you're, you can be depended on, like, all of those things, but yet there needs to be a gentleness that you carry yourself with where you understand that that all of these people that are in your sphere of influence, so to speak, you should care about them, whether they believe what you believe or not.

 

Speaker 2  43:30

And if we're going to pattern our life after Christ, can you see people, can you love people, and can you get to know people, regardless of what they hold is true and valuable? And I think that that's very important for us to, for our kids to know, is because in baseball it's a wildly diverse sport, and people come from all over the world, it's very global, and we should be able to honor and love people that don't hold the same beliefs that we do, right? So I think that's important. If that answers your question. It's very multifaceted, because, sure, it is. I've been, you know, I've, I've been a Christian for a really long time, and we've been in sport for a really long time, or been in baseball for a really long time. But, yeah, it's, it's interesting.

 

Speaker 1  44:16

Yeah. No, I, I, yeah, I think about, you know, just, you know, there's something to be said, for you know, having a strong faith in something. I kind of made some public statements on some personal social media a little while ago, and somebody was like, "Whoa, and I said, "If you don't stand for something, you'll fall for anything. So, it's kind of, you know, I understand that, and you think about, you know, trying to put together those values and principles for your kids, and how you display that, and, and do that. So, an interesting thing I had read, and so, where did this come from for you? Right, like that. Basically, once you started having kids, you're, you're non-negotiable. Is what I read was that the kids were always going to be. You know, you're all going to be together as a family, so where did that, where did that kind of notion come from? You know, because obviously it made a difference.

 

Speaker 2  45:08

The sport is very volatile, you know, like as far as, like, there's a lot of moving parts, and so there's spring training schedule, there's the baseball schedule, like during the season, and then there's the off season. A lot of people don't live where they play because you don't know how long your contract is going to be, and so that's kind of like the life of a pro baseball player, you've got the three spots, and again, like I grew up in a home where my dad was just awesome, my mom too, but like I'm the mom, so like I'm talking about my dad right now, but my mom's great to her, she's wonderful, but with my dad, like he was so important to me as a young woman, and as a kid, I just loved being around him, and I didn't want my kids to not have that same experience, and so Matt and I, early when we had Jax, we just were like, okay, we don't know how this thing's gonna go, but we're going to make it. We're going to do this together, and so even if you know we didn't know at the time financially what was going to happen, or anything like that, but that was a non-negotiable for our marriage. Is that we will figure out a way to keep this group together, and so even if it means that we're cutting costs here, cutting costs, there. This is a priority for us, and let's do this until the end, because we had seen, you know, families, and there's nothing wrong with it, but, and I think every family just kind of has to decide what they want to do, and, but for our family, it was that we observed, you know, Mama would stay at home, the kids would do school, she would come out for a couple weeks here and there, maybe travel on a couple road trips, but they lived these two different lives, and honestly, I just wanted them to be around Matt, and I wanted them to understand what he does for a living. I wanted, like, to just eat breakfast together at 11 o'clock in the morning, because baseball families wake up really late, and so we went to bed really late, like it just.. I loved what we did, and it didn't come without some weird stuff, like our kids did virtual school for a lot of his career. They played on teams all over. When Matt played for the Yankees, we lived in an apartment in New York, and the kids played baseball in Westchester County, and they had to leave their friends, you know, like there there was sacrifice that went into this, but I felt like, and Matt felt like, and the kids, the kids, I mean, so far I asked Jackson the other day, I was like, are you gonna have to go to counseling over this, or is this something you might repeat if you play long enough, I was like, where are we at? Did we totally screw you guys up? And he said, no, I'll do the exact same things, and you know, but I don't know. I mean, it's such a short period of life, you know? I mean, like, I have a friend that says, like, baseball is time-stamped, it's just, is what it is, like, you're not playing past, you know, much past 40. I mean, Matt quit playing, I think, when he was 38 or 39 but my goodness, it's like you're still so young when you're done. Your kids are young. Jackson was a freshman in high school when Matt finished playing. That's what we did. We'll see. Have me back on in five or six years, and I'll let you know if we start them up.

 

Speaker 1  48:19

So, you got four kids, you got two that are obviously, you know, most of the world that are that cares about baseball or sports, know who they are, so you know with sports demands very high with those two kids, how do you protect, you know, marriage, home stability, and you know the other two kids' identity within the family as well, like, how do you, how do you, how do you manage that?

 

Speaker 2  48:44

Well, we have a.so we have the two boys, a girl, and then another boy, and so that helps to have a girl break up a little bit of it, and so, and then the, and Reed was small, but we all would travel together and do the baseball stuff, and then Grayson, have you seen those memes on Instagram where it's like it's a scene from Tommy Boy, and it's like little kids returning from who knows where at travel ball tournaments? It's hilarious, like since I said it, it'll be on your phone, but it's like that's how it was. Those kids would just find friends and find things to do. I had no idea where they were, and then they would roll back in whenever the games were over, and so it's just what we did, and and we had fun, like if we were in Atlanta - Atlanta's a big hub for all those tournaments - we would go to the aquarium, we'd eat good food, we would go to museums, it, we, we integrated like fun kid things to do, as well as the baseball stuff, or I would not go to a tournament and take them to do whatever, and so we just kind of, it's kind of just what we did. And Grayson is a cheerleader now at Stillwater High School, and the boys come and watch her do her thing, and like Ethan surprised her the other day, he came home in between, you know, his season. In and then this thing he has in Arizona, and they're just, I mean, she saw him, and I mean, she just starts crying, and they're very close, and so I feel like that's one thing that I'm proud of, but we, again, we just kept everybody together, and I don't know, with Reed, it might be a little bit interesting to be honest with you, because he's a boy, and but he plays football, and they didn't play football, so maybe football will be his thing, but I'll tell you what, I did tell Reed the other day, because he doesn't practice baseball at all, like not at all, and does he

 

Speaker 1  50:30

play?

 

Speaker 2  50:31

He plays, yeah, and he doesn't practice, no.

 

Speaker 1  50:33

And is he good?

 

Speaker 2  50:34

Yeah, he's good. And I told him the other day, I was like, hey, stud, I need you to know something, like you don't automatically get to be in, like, you automatically aren't drafted, you do know that, right? And he's like, "Well, what are you talking about? He was like, "I'm gonna play pro baseball, just like my brother. So I was like, "No, not I was like, no, not. I was like, "If you don't get in that batting cage, you don't have a shot. And I mean, he just starts laughing. He's like, "We'll see, and I'm like, ah, no, you don't really, I'm telling you the truth, you have to practice, and he just laughs, so who knows, I mean, with him, but he's a yeah, he's a good little athlete, and

 

Speaker 1  51:11

that makes me feel so much better, I mean, all parents say, oh my god, my kid never listens to me, but they'll listen to somebody else, here you are, Reed, your father was a professional baseball player. I watched that. Your two brothers were.. I think I know what I'm.. nah, whatever.

 

Speaker 3  51:26

No,

 

Speaker 1  51:27

I think that's hysterical.

 

Speaker 2  51:28

You don't know what she's talking about. Yeah, yeah. And then he's funny, but he really likes football. It's been fun to watch. And then we'll see how.. how it goes with him. He's. he's awesome. He's really, really funny,

 

Speaker 1  51:42

and I've seen some of the videos. You guys have quite a rather nice facility on the property. Yeah, yeah, I'd be, I'd be in there all the time if I was a baseball kid. So, I don't know, yeah,

 

Speaker 2  51:53

I don't know, I don't know what's going on with him. We'll see, time will tell.

 

Speaker 1  51:56

Hey, they all again, no, no comparison, they know they got to come to things at their own thing. Has there been any sort of maybe a memory that stands out along the parenting journey of parenting athletic kids that makes you that kind of made you rethink or adjust your philosophy or what you thought about before?

 

Speaker 2  52:17

That's a great question. I don't know. I really think that one thing we've Matt hit, if he were here, he would probably.. this is what I think Matt's done really, really well, is that he doesn't demand, like he sits back and his rule is, if you want me to help you, I'll help you, and but I'm not going to demand that you work or what, like I'm not going to like point things out, like I'm here if you need me, and I'm going to help you, or whatever. And I think that's been, that's been really good. It's like I was talking to Jackson's wife the other day, and I, and she said something like, I don't know, I has has Jackson talked to talk to Matt about hitting, you know, and he's kind of in a slump. I was like, yeah, Chloe, we don't do that. I was like, if Jackson wants to talk to Matt about hitting, like, he's gonna have to, he's gonna have to call him. And so I don't know, I mean, we might be able to tweak that one a little bit. I think Matt could probably, if the house is burning down, he might want to run in there before it burns to the ground, but I don't know. I mean, it's so hard to know what you do, but I do think that I'm really grateful that we have a good relationship with our kids, and it's not based on, like, I don't know, I think they know that if they were to call me today and say we're done, we don't want to do this anymore, they know that I would be like, okay, dinner's at seven, you know, like I just.. I know that they know that, and you know, and I think that's great. And so, if we made mistakes along the way, 100% but I think that at least, like, they know that man, we're crazy about them, we're proud of what they do, but we don't like our identity isn't in our kids' performance, you know. And so, and I think that's freeing for them, you know. So, I don't know if you ask them that question, I'm sure they'd come up with something like, I wish she would have done x, y, and z, but I don't know.

 

Speaker 1  54:18

Well, maybe we'll get a rebuttal on the podcast a little later in the off season, you never know. Bring them, bring them out and ask.

 

Speaker 2  54:24

Yeah, I don't know, I don't know. We'll see. Time, I think time is the greatest gift in some ways, like right? It reveals, it reveals mistakes. Well,

 

Speaker 1  54:33

you know, I think even just I think about, you know, journey with my own kids, and I've got four kids as well. Just, you look back, and you go, "Oh, I could have done that better. Oh, but it didn't work out to be too bad, or, and even just with the athletics part, I've kind of taken the approach in the last, you know, maybe two or three years, just kind of going like, "Hey, you know, like we're good,

 

Speaker 2  54:57

yeah,

 

Speaker 1  54:58

right, like it doesn't. Our love for you isn't wrapped up in what you do, right? Like, we just want you to be happy, so if you're happy doing that, that's great. If you're not happy doing that, that's great. I think for some people, you know, I know some parents, because they're around the age of like 1718, where you see kids start saying, yeah, I don't want to play this sport anymore, and they quit, and I've seen the parents be like absolutely in major withdrawals, because everything they had everything kind of invested in going to their games and support, you know, and supporting them rightfully so, but then having a hard time, they were having a harder time adjusting than the kids were, like the kid just goes, I made him a decision, and this is it. And I think it's, I think, as parents, it's probably something we can learn, is to just not.. somebody once said, never want it more than your kids, or, you know, like,

 

Speaker 2  55:54

just.. yeah, yeah.

 

Speaker 1  55:55

And it's hard. It's hard, I think, in Canada with hockey. Oh my, it's like Texas football times 10, you know, it's kind of like that. And I think it's hard. I think parents have to kind of self-reflect and say, hey, you know, why are we doing this, and it's not about me. And I think that they truly thought about it, sometimes it was about them.

 

Speaker 2  56:19

Yeah, and it's hard, like, again, like that's why I would take a walk at Matt's games, or even with Jackson and Eats and stuff. It's like it is, it is easy to fall into the all-consuming like mindset. Do you know, and I mean it's easy, like you love these kids, and you see something in them, and I have a friend that says the key to parenting, and like, or the job of parenting, or I don't even remember how he says it, but what he says is, is that our job is to the invisible things that God places in our kids, like, we draw those out, and, and it's cool, and so I, I love how Josh says that, he would be a great person for your podcast, you would love him, he played baseball for a long time, anyway, but he's, he's just brilliant, and when he said that, I was like, you know what, that does make a lot of sense. And so, because you do, you want to raise kids that are passionate about something, and so that work at something, and you know, and if it's sports, great, Matt did too, and so they could share that. You know, I'm familiar with it, I been around it my whole life. My brothers were also really good athletes, and so great, like that's easy to talk about, but you want them to work hard at something, and so you know, and and I think that God gives us our kids, and we're to help steward their lives, and you know, and and it is important that there's something that they, they get some up in the morning, and so, but I don't know. I do think that's true, but I love that, Josh. When Josh said that, I was like, that is really right, right, that you have these little people, and you see things in their lives when they're just little, and it's like, how can you draw those out, and how can you put them in positions that it can really be cultivated, so that they can flourish and do what they love to do as they grow. The boys love sports. Grayson loves to write, and she's a really good athlete. And read, we'll see, and so he's a great athlete, but I don't know. We'll see what he continues to

 

Speaker 1  58:17

do. Reads casual, it's okay. He is good. It's something wrong with that either. So, another question that I wanted to ask was, what do you see are some of the biggest blind spots or pitfalls that you see other parents make, like in parenting athletic kids. What are some of the blind spots for parents that they could avoid,

 

Speaker 2  58:41

I think the thing I've seen the most, because we obviously, I've sat in the stands a lot of years with young wives, or you know, then they're they're pretty eager to talk about the husband's parents, or whatever, so I kind of have an advantage on this deal. This is a great question, I think that when they don't talk to their child about anything other than sports, it crushes the kid, and what I mean is it's like, because in doing that, like, I, there's a balance, though. In all fairness to Mom and Dad, there's a balance, because they grew up and probably Dad coached them, or they were very involved in their development, and so there's this natural, like, easy conversation when you have older kids to talk about what they did at work that day or what they did in college that day. So, in all fairness to parents, it's normal, and that's probably an easier conversation, but I've have heard over the years pretty consistently that that can be crushing, that all they want to talk about is the outcome of what went on on the field, because it makes them feel like that's where their worth is, is like the performance on the field, and they really desire a relationship with their moms and dads that are a little bit, that that can be a place of peace, and that can be a safe space where performance doesn't matter, and I. Heard that for 20 years, and so it's safe to say that that's probably true, you know, and so it's just like with something, and so in knowing that, like when I talk with Jackson or Ethan, we talk about The Office, or we talk about these stupid reels that I've seen that I think are funny, or we talk about,

 

Speaker 1  1:00:26

do you send them a lot of reels? Do you send them a lot of reels?

 

Speaker 2  1:00:28

Oh, my word, yes. And it's like five to one, and so I'll send them like five reels, and then they'll respond to the one, right? And so they'll throw me a bone every now and then. Yeah, so nice of them, but I just do. I really desire, like I really desire to be just a place of peace, you know, for them. And I don't know, I.. and I think that I've just seen it. I've seen it in like some of the greatest athletes in the world. They want their mom and dad to be their mom and dad, and I would say start doing that now. Do you know what I mean? And I remember, you know, Mike Messini, the manager for the Cardinals, he wrote a really good book about this, about how, you know, like maybe consider not talking about the game on the way home, or whatever. He has all kinds of tips, and I think that those are those are really wise, you know, and they know what they did, and but I also think that there's wisdom in talking to them about how to get better, but maybe the timing.

 

Speaker 1  1:01:30

Well, when you said that, it like hit me right between the.. I started drifting into.. hmm, what are my conversations like? Am I, you know, you know, actually I started taking some stock about, you know, because we're at a point where lots of things are bubbling up, and I'm thinking, are we talking about it too much? Maybe we are. I don't know, you know.

 

Speaker 2  1:01:50

Well, I mean, I would just let him lead, you know. I mean, I do think, like, that's important too, to think about, you know, because some, they do talk to Matt about baseball stuff, you know, but Matt also tries to talk about other things, because he's also set, and we're upset, you know what I mean. So we hear it, we're just like, we have an advantage, we know what people say, and so it's just, you know, I mean, and some of the greatest players, and I'm not trying to be weird, but I was at this thing, and Carrie Underwood was there,

 

Speaker 1  1:02:19

you can name drop, you run in those circles, you guys are you guys still under royalty. What are you talking about?

 

Speaker 2  1:02:26

But this was really impactful, so this is the only reason I'm sharing it. And so I was talking to her about, you know, just all the things, and so American Idol, and all the stuff, and I said, well, tell me about your parents. I said, I want to know about your parents, because they like, how did they handle your success at such a young age, and all the things you have a relationship with them, and I'm just asking her a bunch of questions, and I see him, you know, I said I'm just asking for me because I want to be sure that, like, I'm on the right path with my boys, like, you know, and I don't want to make assumptions or whatever, like, how, how's it going, and anyway, in a nutshell, she was like, my mom has never not been my mom, and my dad is very unaffected, but respectful of my career, and she was like, my parents are just my parents, and I thought to myself, and they have a great relationship, so on and so forth, and I was like, that's such good advice, and so good for me to hear, because I would love someday if my kids were like, "Tell me about your mom, and they said, "Well, my mom was just my mom, and they were, she was unaffected by all the things, she just loved being my mom, and I don't know, I, when she said that it really did, really did click, because what a beautiful compliment. I mean, she's one of the greatest country singers of all time, and for her to speak so highly of her family, and just to say those things, it really was sweet for me to hear, and kind of gave me a goal of like that's the identity that I want to bring into my family, you know, as they continue to pursue their thing, is I want to be a mom that's remembered as man, she's just my mom, you know, and so I don't know, I think it, I thought it was real valuable for me to hear,

 

Speaker 1  1:04:16

absolutely, I think it's very easy to get caught up in all the pomp and circumstance that goes around with, we'll call it celebrity or fame, or whatever you want to call it, because there's so many people feeding that ego, right? And, oh, you're so great, and, oh my god, you're, you know, I think it's not, obviously, not having gone through that myself personally, I just think it would be really hard to deal with, with everybody telling you you're amazing, and then now with social media, with lots of people telling you you're not amazing, and then really trying to, I think you need your parents to be grounded to help you get there, because how do you. You, how do you stay sort of normal through all of that? I don't think it's well, you need a little

 

Speaker 2  1:05:06

brother like Reed, and so that's what you need. Everybody needs a little read in their life, you know, to where they come home and they're like, let's play wiffle ball, and so until three in the morning, or you want to play Fortnite, like be a kid, be a kid. Yeah,

 

Speaker 1  1:05:22

it's awesome. We used to, we used to bill it, OHL hockey players, so we'd take in kids that played, you know, hockey here that were away from home, and they would always like, here's these guys, like 1718, years old, some of them drafted to the NHL, yet on their knees playing mini sticks with all the kids, right, because they're still big kids,

 

Speaker 2  1:05:43

yeah, that's how it is in the off season around here. So, yeah,

 

Speaker 1  1:05:47

I love it. Leslie, thank you so much for your time. It's been an amazing pleasure. I was sorry that your one dog didn't make an appearance, I was hoping he would jump up there, but he

 

Speaker 2  1:05:57

is right here laying right beside me.

 

Speaker 1  1:05:59

What a respectful guy. I do appreciate your time. I appreciate your perspective, and you have yourself a great day. Thank you,

 

Speaker 2  1:06:06

thank you so much. This is great.

 

Matt Cundill  1:06:08

Thanks for listening. For more, including resources and more about the show, go to The Mental approach.com

 

Speaker 2  1:06:16

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