Dawn Chubai: Sell Through the Screen

Tara Sands  0:02  
The sound of podcast, the show about podcast and broadcast starts now.

Matt Cundill  0:13  
Dawn Chubai is someone you may know by name if you've watched television in Edmonton or Vancouver, or maybe you've seen her in movies over the last 20 years, often playing the role of a TV reporter or news anchor. She worked at a channel in Edmonton, which later became city TV, and then moved to Vancouver to do breakfast television for the aforementioned city TV. Later, she went to Toronto to do the home shopping channel, and has now launched a business program called Bring your brand to live. And I think she'd be qualified to do this after helping move a quarter billion dollars in product through the home shopping channel. Yeah, she knows a thing or two about live selling, and podcasters should be paying attention, because isn't that what a host red ad is? It's been a long time since Don and I have chatted, and this is going to be a good catch up. And now Don Jubei joins me from Vancouver. What was like growing up in Edmonton, and was that on purpose?

Dawn Chubai  1:08  
Was it on purpose? Well, when Daniel Schultz and Theresa Stewart got together at the ripe ages of 19 and 16, I that was on purpose. For me, maybe I was the accident. So I guess by accident, but on purpose,

Matt Cundill  1:23  
I guess the next question, when Yes, mentioned someone's from Edmonton, is, what high school did you go to?

Dawn Chubai  1:27  
Harry Ainley, yeah, big rotunda, huge. I think they had 2000 students at the time, probably more. Now, I remember the rotunda. I remember going to the school dances. I remember sort of feeling like I was disappearing. Wasn't popular, but wasn't unpopular. It was kind of a blur.

Matt Cundill  1:44  
Wasn't that the school that won all the track meets?

Dawn Chubai  1:46  
Yes, yeah, absolutely, it was very athletically inclined. So to say I was not, although I did actually, that's not entirely true. I do have a newspaper clipping in my big Memory Box of clippings and such of doing the, I think it was called the Edmonton journal games, and I was in a relay race, so somehow I made the paper for that. So maybe I, maybe I was a little bit athletically inclined.

Matt Cundill  2:13  
When did you start singing

Dawn Chubai  2:14  
from a young age? Because I remember being in the backyard. We lived in the neighborhood of urban skin, which is urban skin. Duggan was kind of where I grew up in Edmonton, and we had this backyard and I remember hosting backyard concerts where I'd gather the neighbor kids and, you know, create a band and wrote songs, all of them dumb, but that was the start of my performance. So I could say I started at a very young age, but I started performing publicly in and around 1990 when I started with Edmonton musical theater and then subsequently started my own jazz group, when I was asked one day, hey, you sing, you've got a jazz group, right? We're going to have a weekly gig. And I didn't have a jazz group, but I created one on the spot, and I had a house gig for three years.

Matt Cundill  2:59  
And as a musician, of course, the next thing you need is a day job. And how did you find your way into PR?

Dawn Chubai  3:05  
So I found my way into PR literally straight out of essentially High School. I was working as a waitress at Earls, the original Earls, which was right next door to ITV, now global. I don't even know if it's located there anymore. And I was waitressing, hostessing, working at Earl's, I ended up meeting somebody who was a regular and her name is Sonia, and she said, Hey, listen, you know, we're looking for a receptionist. So I ended up being receptionist at a Nursing Association and worked my way up to an assistant to PR, and then worked my way up to public affairs officer. So definitely fell into that. So Earls was started in Edmonton. It was, that's the original earls. The very first it was that it was on Calgary trail. I believe the original building was Fuller's. And of course, fuller zoned Earls, right? I think it was Stan. Fuller was one of the original founders there. So, yeah, that was the original earls. Out of all the Earls. That was it.

Matt Cundill  4:01  
So how do you go from PR to broadcasting?

Dawn Chubai  4:03  
Well, I got into broadcasting through my music. So I again, started performing. And was was gigging here and there, all over the place. I used to actually appear on the morning show, big breakfast to, you know, essentially to perform, to promote my gigs, to promote my CD, and at one point they asked me to audition, and I did. I was absolutely terrible. Was told as much, and I was fine with that, because it was not something I had planned. I had a full time gig. I was quite happy doing what I was doing, but they brought me back about three weeks later and said, Hey, listen, everything is trainable, except for personalities. So we're going to give you a few minutes of training and see how you do. I sucked a little bit less, still not great, but that was 25 years ago, actually, more now, gosh, got to be 2627 years ago, almost now.

Matt Cundill  4:50  
Okay, so you're loosening up some of the memories here about a channel, and I think there was a breakfast show, and there were

Dawn Chubai  4:59  
musical guests. There were, and it was such a great I would say, Edmonton was so good for that. And a channel, which would become city TV, was excellent for that. We used to have a lot of musical guests on. I mean, even when I worked in Vancouver, we had the likes of Barney Bentall that would be on the show. And in Edmonton, you know, someone was, you know, big, but maybe not so big that they're, you know, don't want to get up early in the morning, they would appear. And, you know, those mornings were among my favorite and it was, it was such a pleasure as a performing artist to perform on those shows, because you were afforded the time they they treated it like it was just such an important thing. They would have multi camera. The director was always real, jazzed about it because, you know, wasn't talking heads on a couch. The sound was always good, because everyone that was working the behind the scenes, you know, behind the scenes, you know, this was like a professional kind of thing. So, yeah, it was, it was awesome. And, you know, unfortunately nowadays, if you fast forward, you know, even 15 years later, certainly now 2025, years later, and more musical acts is just, it's very rare to get that kind of screen time, because, of course, everything is pay to play. But it was sure. It was sure nice while it lasted, and it definitely helped my career, both in music but also in broadcasting.

Matt Cundill  6:07  
Oh, I completely forgot there was, I think, the studios faced out onto Jasper Avenue. People could stop and press their nose up against the glass. The staff had a real feel for the streets of Edmonton and the night life and what was going on in the city. It was always projected outward. You jumped on board and what was the first job?

Dawn Chubai  6:31  
Yeah, I was working weather and traffic. So we called it at the time, the weather girl. Right now, you would say weather presenter. You know, if you were a meteorologist, you'd call your you know, obviously you'd be called a meteorologist, but I was a weather presenter. But going back to the nose pressed up against the window, because, of course, it was all very much based on that Moses namer, you know, much music kind of vibe. And I remember doing once the weather out on Jasper, Ave and kiss was touring, so they were in town for the night, and Paul Stanley sneaks up behind me. I wish, and I wish I had these videos now. And you know, it was before the time of, like, cell phones at the ready and all of that. I mean, you weren't even texting at that time, but yeah, I remember him kind of sneaking up behind me. And, you know, everyone wanted their their two seconds on air, even when they're that famous. But yeah, it was a really good time. And yeah, weather and traffic girls. So I did that in the morning. Then I eventually progressed to the, I'm going to say, the main weather presenters, so the coveted six o'clock news. And then about, you know, basically, after four years of working in Edmonton, I was whisked off to Vancouver when my husband got a gig, and basically almost felt like no time lost, although I did come unemployed. So that was a big shift, going from being pretty popular in Edmonton and then moving to a place where I didn't have a job and no one, no one really knew me. I was talking with Marty

Matt Cundill  7:45  
Forbes earlier in the weekend. He mentioned that you had gone to him to ask if doing the weather on a channel was going to work out for you. And he got behind you fast and said, Yes, yeah.

Dawn Chubai  7:57  
Well, listen, Marty Forbes, but also don Marcotte, who was, I believe that. I don't remember the title now, but he would be like a supervising producer. And of course, Chris Duncan, Jim Haskins, hired me, of course, but it was I was approached because essentially, it was, I believe it was Don Marcotte who had seen me performing. I'm not even sure which club it would have been at. Might have been Devlin's over on white Ave, which I'm not even sure is around anymore. Maybe there wasn't, like, an urban barn or something anyways, doesn't matter. But I think it was Don Marcotte that basically broached the subject. And, yeah, and Marty Forbes, what a what a fantastic guy. You know, he was really instrumental when I moved out to Vancouver, as well, as, you know, really giving me the confidence to kind of go, you know, you can do it. You can get started again. You You know, he really was very helpful. Made a few introductions. And you know, I didn't really necessarily get any jobs out of the introductions, but he certainly kind of gave me that push of knowing, hey, listen, you did it here, and you did it from scratch. And you know, you can do it for sure. You know him and my husband for sure, very much. You know cheerleaders.

Matt Cundill  8:55  
I only saw you perform once you came to sing at our United Way event one year.

Dawn Chubai  9:01  
Yes, yeah. Really good. Well, thank you. I, you know, to be honest, I haven't sung in years when I moved to Toronto after, you know, good stint in Vancouver, and then went to Toronto to work at the shopping channel. You know, it was gonna be a whole starting over again. It was going to be, you know, I was working early mornings once again. So it was, it was not necessarily, you know, for me, a priority to start over again, and unfortunately, it's a bit of a muscle that you got to still work. So outside of being on the couch where my husband plays guitar and, you know, we listen to YouTube and figure out songs, because he's been playing guitar since he was three years old. Yeah, I'm not doing too much in the public eye as far as singing, but I really loved supporting the charities in that way as well. And then, of course, gigging and seeing people and recording two CDs, it was just a magical time. I mean, it feels like a lifetime ago.

Matt Cundill  9:45  
It's funny, you're talking about making those CDs. I see there's a vinyl player in behind you.

Dawn Chubai  9:49  
Aha, yes. So we've got a I actually pulled a couple of records because the records are way over there, but I thought, Oh, just in case, just. In case, he asks me what records we've been listening to. My husband's got a huge record collection, I'm sure, like everyone, maybe like you too, you know, maybe at some point, an ex girlfriend or a mother threw out everything or sold them at a garage sale. So he ended up having to buy pretty much everything again. But it's, it's nice that we can, you know, still kind of keep the vinyl going, and it's, you can't beat it. I mean, we love YouTube, and we still got CDs and, you know, we listen to our our phones and Apple Music, but it's pretty tough to beat the experience of of a record player in a vinyl.

Matt Cundill  10:31  
What did you find in Vancouver?

Dawn Chubai  10:33  
What did I find? What do you mean for work? Oh, well, I ended up as so what happened in Vancouver? I came again with no job. I came and just went, Okay, what am I going to do? I made no assumptions that, you know, someone was going to necessarily just hire me, just because I, you know, was popular in Edmonton. So right out of the gate, I got an agent, not for broadcast, but for acting, because, of course, otherwise known as Hollywood north. I my first gig was a David Suzuki commercial on waiver. I think it had something to do with Iceland. I can't remember. So that was, I don't know, they paid me 50 bucks or something like that. So I kind of thought, Okay, I'll just kind of pick up piecemeal work here and there. But it was, it was a matter of a month, and I got a job over at City TV, working on breakfast television as the weather girl, and eventually progressed to one of the main hosts. I was both in studio. And then there were times where I'd work out on location. And so, yeah, it just, it was really only a month that I was I was unemployed, and yeah, that sparked a very almost 20 years working with Rogers. How long were you doing mornings for? Well, I did mornings as long as I was in Vancouver. I would fill in for the weather. If there was, like, you know, someone needed the day off or was on vacation. But my main gig, I was promoted. I was, you know, promoted as as breakfast television. And then it was when I kind of switched whole gears and whole schedules. Was when I worked in Toronto or Mississauga at the shopping channel. They did start off with me as morning they built a whole show around kind of that morning persona as a bit of an amuse bouche to the day of shopping and and it was branded right around me and around kind of everything that was happening in the day to try to cater to that morning show audience. But the the more money you make for the company, the more they want to push you into that prime time. So it was really not that long before I was pushed into the prime time, slotted at the shopping channel, where instead of working, you know, essentially on air five to nine, I was working 10 o'clock at night, on air until one o'clock, two o'clock in the morning. But when you're

Matt Cundill  12:38  
doing all that morning work. And by the way, your IMDB resume is long, by the way, and I randomly, I'd be watching things like you'd be playing, often a news anchor or a reporter, because you know that role pretty well. I know her.

Dawn Chubai  12:53  
It's usually the voice, you know, how many times I'll get and by the way, just to be clear, yes, I am, you know, ACTRA, and you get to call me an actress, but to be fair, always a reporter. Or there was once that I was able to use my own name, and it was for Twilight, Eclipse, and it's only because in the audition, I signed off with my name, because I always believed in not just doing the lines. I always believed in doing a full sign off, which would show that I was versatile, that I could, you know, ad lib. And I would always sign off, you know, and keep it right here for the latest in this new story, Don Choo Bay, CNN and and so they actually let me use my name. They had to send that audition tape for approval to CNN, because it actually was a CNN reporter, and they had to make sure that I would be a decent representative to the CNN brand. So I always joke that I, you know, six degrees of separation from from Anderson Cooper, but, yeah, always a reporter. And so it's funny that you say that you see me quite often, because there'll be, like, Netflix, a lot of sci fi. You know, I zombie Supergirl, 4400 the killing all of those. And I would always get somebody texting me, saying I heard your name before I looked and saw it was you, or I heard your voice before they would kind of go, okay, yeah, I knew it was you.

Matt Cundill  14:07  
So for a movie, how would that work? Would you have to report to a Vancouver studio to go do a number of cuts, and then there's like, the casting people all around and the director and the whatnot, and maybe somebody's piped in on an ISDN line and stuff. How does all that work?

Dawn Chubai  14:22  
Yeah, so there would be auditions first, and so let's talk pre covid, right? Pre covid, you would go to Shoreline studios or north north shore studios or Lions Gate, and you would be ahead of time, given your lines, you would have your stamp of your name on there, so that you know, if you ever just sort of ditched it in the garbage and someone found it, they would know that you were not, you know, protecting the chain of custody for this, you know, protected script or whatever. So you would go audition, and there'd usually be three or four people, there'd be, you know, a camera on sticks. So for anyone listening or watching, it's a tripod, right? So it's nice and steady. Sometimes there would be a reader, if there were back and forth conversations, there. Would be someone doing the complimentary lines. But a lot of times for me, unless it was a scrum situation where I was like, you know, yelling at someone to respond to something, it was usually straight to camera. So I would, you know, stand there, and I would look dead to camera, deliver my lines and and then the casting director would often say, you know, great, could you do it again? And it was, it was very rarely about that they didn't think you did something correctly. It's that they wanted different options, like, can you do more energy? Can you do it more serious? Can you be more urgent? And so they would often take maybe one to two, maybe three takes if they wanted. And you think, you know, thank you very much. You walk out the door and you know, you never call unit, you know, basically, it's a don't call us. We'll call you kind of situation. So usually, after that point, you you know, when I when it was successful, and I had a pretty good success rate, I would get an email from my agent saying, Hey, look at you made to the shortlist. Here's when they're filming. How does that look? And I would look at my availabilities, because, of course, I was also working in morning television. I had a really good boss, who would, you know, be very flexible, because they also liked, sort of the notoriety of having somebody that was on the big screen, you know, next to Tom Cruise, or Robert Redford, which I was, or at least in the same movie with the credits nearby, and, and so, yeah. So then at that point, they basically, you know, say, Great, here's your shoot date day before you get your call time. So I'd always be, you know, thinking, oh my gosh, is it gonna be at four? Gonna be at four in the morning, or is it gonna be, you know, midnight? What is it and and then you you'd get your location, and you would go to the circus, which is basically where the parking and the trailers were, and I would check in with the ad, and I'd always have my own trailer and walk right in there and wait it to be called to set do your lines. Sometimes you'd have to, you know, do different scenes, which would mean that you'd have to, you know, go back to your trailer and come back, but usually was kind of in one spurt, and then you send you home, and if there was anything they needed to re record, it's called ADR. Couldn't even tell you what that is, but it's basically voice overing to match your lips if they needed to re record something because a plane was flying or something like that. So, but usually it was a one and done. Start. A one and done. Start, wrap, finish. SWF was always by my name. You mentioned Tom Cruise.

Matt Cundill  17:07  
Was that? Mission Impossible?

Dawn Chubai  17:08  
Yes, Mission Impossible. Ghost Protocol was the episode I was in. I never actually saw him. I was on a screen, and he was at a bar, so I was in a sec, what they call a second unit for that one. So it was, there's always like, kind of the secondary unit, which might have a green screen, blue screen, and and you were meant to be, like compartmentalized, like on a TV. But I was so close to meeting Robert Redford, because he was actually filming that day. He was also directing the company you keep Susan Sarandon. I was actually in the makeup room with Susan Sarandon, and, yeah, Robert Redford's walking down the aisle. And I think, oh my God, he's gonna walk right by me. He's gonna walk right by me and and right as soon as he could have, he made a turn into the next aisle of trailers. So I It was close. It was close. Next time, next well, yeah, yeah, no. Well, me maybe, maybe one day I'll end up in that trailer park in the sky with Robert Redford directing the ultimate movie.

Tara Sands  18:12  
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Matt Cundill  18:45  
news, I love Edmonton, but you know the number of times you know that somebody makes a suggestion, or it just happens that you move to Vancouver, the opportunities there are incredible, TV, radio, film, Nickelback, I told them, hey, you should go to Vancouver for a year. That seemed to work out for them. Absolutely. Yeah, it's just the city just gives

Dawn Chubai  19:09  
Yeah, and, I mean, it's, I mean, I'm even looking outside today, and a lot of days, you know, yes, we do see rain, but you know, it's, it's one, it's one of the most beautiful places in the world, certainly in Canada. But I don't get too attached to places. I, you know, when I made the first move from Edmonton to Vancouver, that was kind of probably the most difficult move, when my husband got a job out in Vancouver, and, you know, we decided to kind of start over again because he had that opportunity. It was just it was too good to pass up, although I will say he was prepared to pass it up if I said no, because he understood, you know, that my career also was important, and that it was also very specialized. And, you know, it's not necessarily that easy to always start over in that industry, but he had faith, and I got a job very quickly, and I absolutely loved it. But you know, when I had a chance, also, you know, after 13 years of working on on breakfast. Television in Vancouver, to move to Ontario to work at the shopping channel. It the decision was, was prompt. It was, it was an even a question. No matter how much I loved Vancouver, I was, I was willing to start over again, because I started to realize that, you know, we've got this one life and the opportunity to explore different opportunities in different places. And I recognize that's not for everybody. A lot of people like to be really comfortable where they are, and there's absolutely nothing wrong with that. But after that first move, I started to realize there was a an excitement in the challenge of starting over again, and so be it with the shopping channel, or when I left the shopping channel to start my own business, the excitement of doing that as well.

Matt Cundill  20:39  
How did you know that the shopping channel would work for you?

Dawn Chubai  20:43  
Well, it was so the interesting thing is, is, several years prior, I had a chance to do an on location shoot, so all of the breakfast televisions in the country got, you know, they were able to ship one of their on air talents to go and celebrate a big anniversary with the shopping channel, TSC, and it was kind of part of their rebranding. And when, the minute I walked in there, I was just like, oh my gosh, this is so great. Like the studios were massive. We had, you know, two studios plus a smaller studio. You're selling everything from Dyson to Sony to tennis bracelets, and you're doing kitchen segments with Curtis Stone and Emeril Lagasse and Wolfgang Puck and and I remember just being in that environment, I thought, how cool is this? You get to use all the skills that I use doing weather and that I did hosting Breakfast Television, and to some extent, even, you know, elements of working in movies, following some scripting, researching, memorizing, but also ad libbing. And then you get to sell products on top of it and have a real time idea of how well you're doing. And like you're not just waiting for ratings, you actually have a real time experience. So when I experienced that, I remember coming back to Vancouver, and I said to my boss, you know, that was just the best, and that's my dream job. And I was fine saying that, because Rogers owned both. So it would never be like, oh, like you're pitting global against city TV, or, Oh, I wish I was at CTV. It was like, it was, it was like an obvious, like, hey. So when, when Brad, my husband, again, got an opportunity to work in Ontario, I reached out to, it's not a news director, but it's like a programming director, supervising producer, and said, Hey, listen, do you have anything open? And they said, Well, we've got a part time job open. And so I auditioned, and I had to audition, and they basically said, Yeah, we're going to pull that posting down and we're going to repost it as full time, and that's your job. So they gave me full time right out of the gate. So it wasn't, it wasn't hard for me to get started with that. I would say, learning to sell through the screen. That's the skill, you know, learning about all the products and all the brands and the brand stories and all of it the flow of a show that was, that was the part you had to learn. But as far as the natural things that I guess I either cultivated over the years or that I naturally brought to the table, it wasn't a hard push. And again, it was I did really well there. I did well for the station. They were excellent to work with, and it was a hard decision to leave. But, you know, there's a point where, when you move back somewhere, and you can only keep commuting for so long. And you know, I started to realize the future and what is happening in E commerce. And I decided, well, if I was able to transfer all of those skills one time, I certainly can do it when it's my own business in an emerging space. Well, I just find the

Matt Cundill  23:24  
channel to be fascinating, because I'd be like, Why would anybody watch this? First of all, you know, you're going to get pitched. Secondly, if you watch the show and you're drinking alcohol, there's a chance you will probably purchase, we love you, something you don't want or don't necessarily need. All sorts of things could go wrong if you're watching this, but at the same time, it's quite infectious. When there's people who are energetic on the screen talking about something that they are passionate, or perceived to be passionate about, you bring in a star like Amarillo gassy and all these things sort of add up a little bit. And then there's that other factor where you could see the real time sales going on, but couldn't you just at one point, just say to yourself, I did my best on this. This product is just stupid.

Dawn Chubai  24:16  
Yeah, I mean. And just also say that it the show, The stations are still very relevant. You know, during covid, HSN, QVC in the States, TSC, I mean doubling targets, because we were considered an essential service, because we were shopping, and people needed clothing. People needed things. They needed to make their sourdough. So they needed all the all the little things. So it's still incredibly relevant. I think, you know, we are going to see a time where, through attrition, it does start to die out, which is why, again, I work in this emerging space. But, you know, working with Vanessa Williams, who creates a clothing line, or Elton John, who, right now has a line of candles that he sells. So it's infectious. For sure, and the passion comes from me, from the standpoint of being able to present a brand and products in a way that will help a consumer, hopefully improve their life, give them something they need. I personally never liked to go like, let me sell you something you don't want. I was always like, listen, not everything can possibly be right for you and to that point. So to answer your question, not everything can also be right for me. For instance, I would often say, Hey, listen, you know, gotta say, if it was a specific fashion, that mini skirt probably not gonna work for me. But if you're somebody who really feels a lot of confidence and how you know, the way you walk into a room and you love this look. You know, I'm probably giving a bad example. I would always be the passion was in explaining that in a way that offered clarity, in helping a consumer, what I call see, the feel, so what you can't touch, taste or try on through the screen. I would help be that conduit. I would be that communicator. And then, yeah, I mean, there was something really exciting when you'd see we'd have in our sight line, because we don't have scripts, like we're not reading off a prompter, we would have in our sight line these graphs. And so you'd have your target, right? We might have a target in an hour of $100,000 could be more, if it was, you know, a special jewelry show. You could have targets of $15,000 and when you'd see in that graph, based on real time, what you would be saying or demonstrating, you know, it creep up, and it was, it was infectious. I mean, my mother in law, she'd be watching, and she'd see what we call the items left counter, meaning like, there's 100 left, there's five left, there's 321, sold out. And she, you think she was at the race track, she'd be like, come on, come on. She just be so excited. So there is, there's a rush through it, but yeah, the Doom scrolling. We see that now on Tiktok shop. We see that in a lot of social media. I still think that the best presenters are the ones that are okay to let go of a sale. But the entertainment factor is a very important element of it. That is why it still is successful, and especially right now with so much online purchasing, I do think that we need to bring a human element back to some of these brands, to again nurture that trust, to bring out brand loyalty and to make sure that consumers feel like they do have

Matt Cundill  27:18  
an advocate. I can totally see watching this channel just simply for the company. Of having three, four people in a studio who are live, because I can't get that on in any other channel, a channel doesn't exist. The same way that it used to sports was, especially during the pandemic, sports, you know, wasn't on. I can see a lot of people turning that channel on just simply for the company, yeah? And the

Dawn Chubai  27:43  
bloopers, right? I mean, yeah, there are lots of things that happen with live TV, and this would be the case with traditional broadcast, right? I'm sure, you know, in in radio broadcast, same kind of things. And, I mean, those were the gold moments, those were the human moments. I was always a really big fan of live because it really would demonstrate how nimble a presenter was. How can they recover? And I think, you know, even if you look back to my audition tape, way back when, when I auditioned to work again on on big breakfast night at a channel, it was a terrible audition, right, like, and I put it up there because I think it's really important for people to know that you're not, you're not always going to be perfect. You're not, you're not ever at a finished state. And you have to be willing to try. And I'm just this is beyond performance, in my opinion. You know, we've got this one life, so if you have the ability to try something, don't be afraid to do it. A little scared.

Matt Cundill  28:41  
Yeah. Well, you know, I did live radio for many, many years, and then I found podcasting, and then I realized, well, anything I could record, I could make better. And now I don't do nearly as much live as I used to, yeah, now there's a little bit more fear. I feel like I need to be retrained a little bit in order to do that live thing and to jump back in front of a camera. And then I'm thinking about all the people who want to do podcasts, but also want to be on YouTube and also want to jump on and they come on to do these live hits, and they're not very good. Maybe you should be recording this.

Dawn Chubai  29:15  
Yeah. But would you say like, Would it be fair to say that when you went from an extensive live career into podcasting, did you find that it wasn't as efficient in the beginning? Because in my experience, having to having the ability to redo things, takes so much more time.

Matt Cundill  29:36  
Yeah. I think the premise with recording is anything you can record, you can make sound better. So I think there was a lot of adding, you know, sound design. Let's enhance. Let's add another narrative part, you know, in that form of storytelling, the live thing I do miss because, you know, you do a radio show, and I'm thinking about the one I did with Jake Daniels, every day, from two to six on the bear, there's three breaks an hour. And if you screw. Up, you know, the one at 215 you'll get another chance at 235 and, you know, we'll, we'll do it again, only better the next time. And it's one of these things that sort of builds and builds and builds

Dawn Chubai  30:11  
on itself, yeah, but gosh, those those times of live radio. I mean, I remember being asked to appear as a guest on some of the stations. The bear being 1k 97 was another one. I remember doing Christmas Eve shows Terry Evans would host every Christmas Eve, these, these morning jam sessions on Christmas Eve. And, yeah, it was just, it was such a different time where there was a lot more flexibility in the media. And I think, you know, that's part of why I loved the shopping channel as well. And I love what I do now is because it does give an opportunity as well for exposure where, you know, so much is paid to play, and there's nothing wrong with that. Everyone's got to earn a living. You know, podcasts, a lot of it's monetized, you know. I'm not, I'm not working for free, you know. But I do think that there is something nice about being able to amplify in I'm many times a more affordable way, but also directly to the audience you actually want to reach. Tell me

Matt Cundill  31:09  
about leaving the shopping channel and then starting your business. And I love the fact that you focus on live and performing live now.

Dawn Chubai  31:19  
So Brad again, gets head hunted to come back to Vancouver. And honestly, we thought we were going to stay in Ontario, but he gets head hunted back. And at this point, you know, I really love my job at the shopping channel, and I also know that it's, you know, I'm getting a bit older. It's not going to be so simple for dawn to just walk back in, you know, she left. Dawn leaves at the top of her game, and then, you know, six, seven years later, comes back. It's not going to be the same. There's not the same jobs, there's not the same budgets. Do I really want to get up at three in the morning again? Not really, not really. And so I commuted for a whole year. I was really lucky that, I guess I was making enough of a difference that Rogers did something they never did, which was basically create this custom deal where I could front load a month's worth of work in in 10 days. So I basically worked long days, no break, but then the rest of the time I'd be back in Vancouver and making my paycheck, getting my stock options, all that kind of stuff. So that was really good. I did that for a year, and at some point, we kind of went, you know, what, like, I got to start figure out what I want to do, because this is not the way to have a marriage. And, you know, I don't, didn't really love traveling that much, but I love the station. So while I was commuting, I used it as an opportunity to research what was happening in E commerce, and in particular, live social shopping, which is, you know, was already huge in China, and projected, by the way, this year alone, to be a $1 trillion industry, if we talk about the the social commerce, live shopping, 70 billion in the US. And I started to think, well, how can I take what I know, which is directly related, just a different piece of technology, television versus phones, for instance, what can what can I do? And I'm like, Well, gosh, I've sold $250 million in product. That's a framework, and that's something I can help people do. So after a year of commuting, I decided I'm going to build a program through my live selling school. So I built out live selling school. And you know, that's kind of the passive thing, where it's how to sell through the screen, how to help people see, see the feel, structure a show. But my biggest successes right now have been working one on one with brands and an upcoming accelerator to try to help me scale. So it's been great. I've had, you know, I have a lot of clients in Canada, but I have clients really all over the world, and students all over the world. So it's, it's a unique situation, because there will be people out there that can teach you how to sell, and there will be people out there that can teach you to be comfortable on camera in whatever way, right zoom calls whatever it is. But there's, there's only a handful of people that know how to sell through the screen to the scale that I've done. And out of those handful of people you know, relative to an entire population of on air talent who might be broadcasters and journalists, I was kind of the first to do what I'm doing and to this to the level I am. So I'm really proud that that sort of has transpired. It's, it's a slow burn, I will say. Because in the beginning, you know, they tell you that it takes, what, two years to, you know, get your business off the ground, but now you do it in an emerging space. So it's only now, after almost three years, that it's really starting to click. And I'm so glad I got started early, because that's an important distinguishing element, I think, is to have somebody that's sort of been through the wave of what's been and also what's to come.

Matt Cundill  34:36  
Yeah, there's something very authentic about being live, and it's even better when you can be polished somewhat and be live. And I've seen and remembered over the years there were news reporters who needed to go live, and often it was in a national on a national stage, at 10 o'clock in a breaking story in a town where a reporter had never, ever been live. And you know exactly how that worked. Doubt, nervous, fumbling, and then just trying to throw it back to Rosie Barton as quick as possible, right? It's so, I mean, there's a, it's, it's a real talent that if you, even if you just do a little bit of it and get a little bit of training it, it'll make such a huge difference. I would argue

Dawn Chubai  35:21  
too, that so many people think they have to be perfect, and it's really all it's the preparation that is the most important. So, you know, you prepare, you promote, and then you get to play. And it's always the preparation that allows you to be more spontaneous. Everyone always thinks like, oh, gosh, if I practice, I'm gonna lose the spontaneity. It's like no this. You get to be spontaneous when you know your stuff right. That that's the reality. When you know the product, you know the why and the live element. I cannot stress enough how much of an advocate I am, and I listen. I'm not looking to buy myself an on air job there. I still do some live shopping hosting when people want me to, but that's not really what my model is. I thrive in empowering founders to do it, and especially in this world. I don't know how you feel about influencers and creators. I'm not against anybody, but what I would say is that there's been too long this leveraging the popularity of an influencer to get engagement and to not have that final step, which should be what you're actually paying for, is yes, the alignment, yes, the engagement. But ultimately, you know, brands need to sell their stuff, and so you know, to me, having a founder and leveraging your own talent, like your own staff, who are already product experts, who are already friendly and authentic, and know who your client, you know your customer avatar is. I'm just a huge fan of empowering founders, and I would just always say, like, Listen, you do want to have a general structure, because, again, that's what allows you to play that's what allows you to feel confident and you don't have to be perfect. People actually love it when you're not perfect. Trust me, I know that's how I got into TV. I was terrible at the start, even once I got the job, but it was that growth, and people seeing you grow and supporting you and cheerleading you, that it just is so gratifying, and it's it's so easy for people to do, if they just are, you know, a little more open to getting themselves in front of the camera.

Matt Cundill  37:25  
Yeah, you mentioned the spontaneity and how it develops, and you said preparation, and preparation every if you want, if you have to go live, you have to be prepared. And so it's 50% preparation, 50% execution, and knowing the product, or whatever it is, that you're talking about 100% at its fullest, then you've got confidence. And that's where the spontaneity just will kick in. Because it's like, yeah, I know this

Dawn Chubai  37:53  
stuff, yeah. I mean, the confidence comes from all of what you just said. I mean, you've got, you're making this meal, and what I love is that there are ingredients that will make the meal Excellent. We've got a recipe book that will guarantee that it's going to taste the way. You know, Dawn has made it, but you know, Matt's got a little more salt, someone else has a little more spice. Maybe you don't like cilantro. So there's going to be pieces of a framework that someone like me offers, or anyone else that trains in anything they do, and this is where you get to make it your own recipe, and that's what I love so much, is that, you know, people can have an established framework, and what has worked for someone like me who has sold what I've sold and done it both on TV and in live shopping, and have coached and worked with other brands and creators to do it. But my goal is that someone makes it their own, and that confidence continues to build. And I have, I have brands that also have physical stores, in addition to being D to C, which is direct to consumer, meaning they sell everything just on a website. Maybe they do the odd pop up, and the benefits extend far beyond the sales. So many times it's about the community building. I always say it's almost like social media, but on rocket fuel, because it really doesn't take much more effort than what you're probably doing on social and it's building community. So to your point, it's people that are there for you. They're keeping you company. So whether you're Doom scrolling, whether you're having your Saturday morning coffee while you're looking at some candles, you know, with Elton John, or whoever. Maybe you're a local candle shop owner. It's just, yeah, it's to me, it's just, it's such a perfect time to do this. I don't know if you've heard about this, where people are craving analog experiences. You know, going bowling, playing board games. It's the younger, the younger generation. And I like to say that live shopping, live social shopping. It really is about as analog as you can get. Hear me out in a digital space, because you've got the human element.

Matt Cundill  39:50  
I love that, that. And of course, the stereo behind you,

Dawn Chubai  39:55  
I know, right, it's good. Do you want to see so the records I have here written. G Hotz and cotton. Yeah. I don't even know how to say his name, but my husband listens to him ad nauseum. He's very, very good. We were listening to this the other night. Keith Richards,

Matt Cundill  40:15  
that's take it so hard, 1988 Yep, or 9388

Dawn Chubai  40:21  
I don't know, will it tell

Matt Cundill  40:23  
me take it so hard was a single. I'm trying to remember the song or the album name,

Dawn Chubai  40:26  
yes, take it so hard and the album. Oh, talk is cheap. I don't know. Talk is cheap, thank you. It's cheap. And then also, I don't know if you've heard of the 1975 Yep, but I really like the 1975 but we got we got everything. Husband's a huge rush fan, right? Hello, Canadiana. I always, I always like the jazz. So we got, you know, obviously Miles Davis and all that, but, yeah, very eclectic record collection, right?

Matt Cundill  40:52  
And for those who could not see that because they're listening to the show in the show notes will be Spotify links to those three albums. Amazing. Don it's really good to catch up with you.

Dawn Chubai  41:04  
Thank you for having me. It's so nice to catch up with you after what, 25 years. So you know, it's nice that you still cared enough to chat with me. I really, I don't take that for granted, and I really do appreciate it. And for anybody who

Matt Cundill  41:14  
wants to work with you and get better in the live space and in front of a camera, how do they contact you? You can find me

Dawn Chubai  41:20  
everywhere on social media, at Don Choo Bay, but if you want to check out live selling school, it is live selling school.com. Thanks, Don, thank you.

Tara Sands  41:35  
Another sound off media company podcast. You.