JAG's Trip to Podcast Movement

Sarah Burke (Voiceover)  0:02  
Steve, welcome to the podcast. Super Friends, five podcast producers from across North America get together to discuss podcasting.

Matt Cundill  0:12  
It is as exciting as it sounds, five podcast producers getting together to talk podcasting. And we do this September the second is our recording day. We're on the heels, I guess, about a week and a half after Podcast Movement. There have been times when four of us have gone. Three of us have gone to Podcast Movement. One year it was just it was just two of us. Think last year was just just me and Jag, and this year it was just jag who went. But we're all here to ask jag how it went at Podcast Movement. Before we get into the nitty gritty of the whole thing, we will go clockwise and we're going to introduce ourselves.

Johnny Podcasts  0:49  
Hi, I'm Johnny. I live in Fort Worth and Dallas where Podcast Movement was but unfortunately, did not attend Podcast Movement this year. But I did get to see Jag, and we had a blast together.

Catherine O'Brien  1:01  
The podcast Super Friends. Or the is, that's really the true spirit of podcast movements, the friends we made along the way. Hey everybody. My name is Catherine O'Brien. I'm in Baton Rouge, Louisiana. Hello, Catherine. Oh

David Yas  1:13  
David, yes. Pod 617, dot com, the Boston Podcast Network. In pod we trust

Jon Gay  1:20  
and John Gay aka Jag, newly rebranded from jag in Detroit podcast to jag podcast productions.

Matt Cundill  1:28  
Congratulations on that. I'm Matt Cundill from the sound off media company in Winnipeg, Manitoba, Canada. For now, there are people looking at the house right now. So right now I'm in my son's condo. So you might hear a little bit of echo and a different background than you would normally see with me. But before we get started, we dig into Podcast Movement. We'll let jag why the rebrand. Tell us about it.

Jon Gay  1:51  
Well, the rebrand is because so many of my clients are virtual. I know that's the case with a lot of you as well. And you know, I had been jagging Detroit podcast for about seven, eight years, and, you know, worked for the local marketing company. We determined that being geographically tied to somewhere might exclude some clients from finding me online. If you're in Chicago or Winnipeg or, you know, or Los Angeles, you might see in Detroit and say, Oh, that guy's in Detroit. That's not where I am. That's not the right fit for me. I'm now location agnostic. I love my Detroit roots with the business, but it was time for a rebrand.

Matt Cundill  2:25  
Well, congratulations on it. David himself is, he's got he's geographically tied, but I guess you'd have to be, because only Boston carries that accent,

David Yas  2:34  
not the spirit of Boston. Come you can come join us for some donkeys, maybe a crawler here in the Boston area, but I have clients all over the country as well.

Jon Gay  2:44  
A quick side note, David, I was in Philadelphia this weekend, and I ran the Rocky Steps wearing my patriots hat and pose with the Patriots hat at the rocky statue. I thought, Oh, I did not get killed. So

Matt Cundill  2:57  
we're going to keep our focus on jag for just a sec here. And I guess we could start with, I guess, what was your biggest takeaway from Podcast Movement? You can discuss it, and then we'll have some questions for

Jon Gay  3:08  
you. Well, the biggest takeaway, and this is, I think, where we can all have a discussion about this, is the future of Podcast Movement, and I think that is geared more towards larger, larger dollar entities. This is kind of the scuttlebutt the last couple of years at Podcast Movement. Of you know, is it really for independent creators, as we referenced a moment ago, the five of us all met attending Podcast Movement as independent podcast producers. Podcast Movement, as you're seeing on the screen. Now, if you're watching the video, it merged with sounds profitable, which is, of course, run by Brian Barletta, which is also tied to pod news, run by James Cridland, who also has a stake in Podcast Movement, so they all sort of merged and decided sounds profitable being an industry publication that focuses on the ad revenue side of things that look we all know that podcasting is the fastest growing medium out there, and really it does not get the share of advertising dollars that it really deserves When you compare it to television, radio and things like that. So they made the decision. They announced this right when we got to Dallas that previous Monday, was that they're now going to shift to focusing on larger entities and move the convention for what was going to be in San Diego next summer, which I was really looking forward to, going to San Diego. It's going to be in New York in the fall, in September, coinciding with all the Ad Week type stuff, where it's really going to give podcast groups an opportunity to be in front of large advertisers, where the money is in New York. So I don't really fault them for that, and I will say to their credit, after one of the keynotes, I did have a conversation with Tom Webster and James Cridland, who are two key key players in all of this, Tom B with sounds profitable, and James Krillin with POD news. And I said, Hey, I understand why you're doing this. You've got to chase the money and go after where the money is. But what about independent creators like me? You're like the five of us. Is there going to be a place for us in New York next September? And Tom, to his credit, was a very friendly conversation. He said, Yes. He said, There will. We are going to put an effort in to making sure that there are tracks and content for independent creators. But we know we can't please everybody, and there are going to be some independents that can't swing into a week in New York in September. It's an expensive place to go, and we realize that, and we and but we have to go where the money is. And so the analogy that I made, and I'm going to make when I blog and podcast about the event, podcast about the event, is some folks are mad, saying, Oh, it's not what it was like. For example, when I started going in 2018 or we all met in Orlando in 2019 but it's like getting mad at your favorite band for getting a record deal and saying they sold out. The whole point of this thing is to make money. So I really can't fault Podcast Movement for going after an opportunity to make more money for the podcasting industry. But I do want, but, and I but I will be curious to see where they fall as far as creating content for those of us that aren't, you know, Patreon or Amazon or Spotify or whoever.

Johnny Podcasts  5:58  
Jack when you say that, it feels like they're stepping away from the more independent Creator track and more towards the sort of, for lack of a better term, corporatized environment. When it comes to the actual sessions that you were seeing, what were the quote, unquote corporate ones, if you can name any off the top of your head that felt like this one isn't really for me. And what would you have liked to seen more of if you can give specifics, that's

Jon Gay  6:26  
a fair question, Johnny. And I think this is more gonna be for next year than it was this year. Because if there were corporate, if there were corporate, you know, targeted ones, I didn't go to those. I went to sessions on video editing tips. I went to the keynotes, which, you know, had a lot about industry wide information. We get into that later. I went to some sessions on pod on podcast SEO, search engine optimization and PSO podcast search optimization within apple and Spotify. So the sessions I went to were relevant for myself and my clients and all of us and our clients on this call, so I didn't feel excluded this year. I just felt like there weren't as many independent creators, and there wasn't that same small business energy that we had seen in previous years. Yeah, because, because

Johnny Podcasts  7:17  
tailing off of that when I was there last year, I was Dallas. Last year. Dallas was three years ago, three years ago, whenever the last time it was in Dallas when a few of us met up there. One of the issues that I saw in terms of corporatizing versus independent creators, it wasn't so much, like you said, the actual sessions that were available, it was the people that you were running into on the floor of the convention center, or wherever we were, we were, you'd look at everyone's name tags, and it wasn't Johnny podcast, it wasn't branch out production, branch out programs. It was account executive at, you know, radio whatever, or, like, sales rep from Spotify. And you're like, Oh, I guess it would be nice to know these people. What we can't have the conversations of, Oh, it's great to meet another producer doing, yeah, another fellow podcaster, or, you know, an indie, StartUp podcast host who's got like, three shows, starting a network, something like that. It was more of middle management type people whose company paid to send them out to go kind of hang out for a few days.

Jon Gay  8:20  
If I could ask you a follow up to that, Johnny, did that factor into your decision to not go this year when it was essentially in your backyard?

Johnny Podcasts  8:27  
No, uh, by limiting I'm limiting myself to one conference this year, and I happen to be going to another one next week, so that that was really the only, the only reason for it.

Matt Cundill  8:39  
Catherine, your thoughts?

Catherine O'Brien  8:42  
Well, I have a similar thought to Johnny, and I that this has been something that I tracked, because I went from the second ever Podcast Movement I went for several years it would be was like, I'm not going to miss it for any reason. And I think that for me, Philadelphia was the year that that was the pivot where the all of the that was the last year we saw any hobbyists going to Podcast Movement. I detected the same thing that Johnny did, where it was like, Okay, now suddenly it's a lot of marketing focus that are people are adding the podcast element into their other offerings. It's not the main show, it's not the main thing that they're doing. And I, I started asking that question of who is who is Podcast Movement for Matt, we draw very heavily upon what you and Dave. From Dave Jackson about it takes three years to make an audience. I started noticing there was like a three year cycle. People would go for a couple of years, and now, not only are they no longer coming to Podcast Movement, they're no longer podcasting. They couldn't get past that three year hump. So there's I definitely, as a attendee, a former attendee, of Podcast Movement, I detected some of the things. That you guys are talking about right

Matt Cundill  10:01  
here. Yeah, and I totally understand there was a time started somewhere between maybe 2019 all the way through to 2024 and maybe even this year, John, you'll have to tell us if this happened where there's a number of people on stage you go to every third session, and they'll tell you that you need 10,000 downloads in order to qualify for for ads,

Jon Gay  10:24  
yeah. I mean, again, I stayed away from some of those monetization ones too. I was limited in the amount of sessions I went to. I had a couple things I was dealing with so but, but, but yeah. I mean, I felt like there was enough content for me throughout the main two days I was there. I mean, Monday night, I just got in Monday, you know, got to have dinner with Johnny and his lovely bride and baby, and then, you know, but Tuesday, Wednesday were my main fashion, my main sessions, rather. And then Thursday, I was kind of in and out in the morning. So,

Matt Cundill  10:56  
so I have a question for David, yeah. And with Podcast Movement, going to New York City and that being close to Boston. Does that make life easier for you? Does it make it a consideration for you to attend? Yeah,

David Yas  11:12  
there's no, there's almost no reason for me not to go. I mean, it's not cheap, but if you're serious about podcasting, it's, it'll, they'll do well with everybody in the Northeast. And so it's, you know, for me, it's, it's a train ride, it's a half hour drive.

Speaker 1  11:31  
Take the Acela. Take

David Yas  11:35  
the Acela. I can just hop on 95 and go all the way,

Johnny Podcasts  11:38  
throw on the town to listen in the background, and you're already there,

David Yas  11:42  
right? So still, I mean, I share this, share the concerns about the direction it's taking, though, because just to pick up on what was already mentioned, if they're telling I've had, I've had this feeling for the the two podcast movements that I've attended is that, yes, there are a lot of there's a lot of big business there. And they're giving advice for people that have podcasts with 10,000 downloads per episode, well, there's a lot of great things to learn on how you get to 10,000 episodes, downloads per episode. And so I really would like to see more of that. The moving it to New York. It just it. I guess it kind of remains to be seen, like a lot of things in the podcast industry, how this will shake out. It's, it's, obviously, you've got cities like, I mean, pick up, pick a New England city. And, you know, we've got Providence, you've got Worcester. Then on the other end, you've got, you know, the whole state of New Jersey. You've got Philadelphia. These are all train rides to New York, and so it's kind of cool that it's open up to people up here, but if for the rest of the country, I don't I'm not

Johnny Podcasts  12:49  
so sure. I'm honestly pretty bullish that it's going to be in New York, and I'm planning on actually going next year. Okay, yeah, oh yeah. I'm planning on going partly because of what Jack just said. All of the sessions that he attended, he did not feel like they weren't for him. So clearly, there was three days worth of content for some and Jack and I are in the exact same business. Clearly I would benefit from going to that. I should go, because the shows that I work on are all like business interviews for companies. They don't they're not going to send somebody to Podcast Movement. That's my job is to is to learn how to make their podcast better and to go and the other reason I'm bullish on it being New York is because I think one of the hidden reasons why a lot of people like us may not be going so much anymore is if you are running your own thing, whether it's a company or it's your Podcast, let's say it's you're running your own podcast. You still have your day job outside of this, it's a lot to ask to take three days off of work, maybe four days off of work to include for travel, get the hotel, get the plane ticket, get to get food, get the actual ticket to the convention, and then for us, for people running companies, are slate like slates of clients, it's a lot to just take three days off and just not touch work for three or four days. It's that's a lot to takes a lot to get to that point where you can do that. So I think why I'm bullshitting New York is, if it's such a if it's so close in proximity to such a consolidated group of people, versus San Diego is really only close to La a lot more people may be able to go for able to go for one day, half day, day, two days of the conference, and jet over there, before, you know, take a day off work. Jet over there, see two or three tracks, get out of there, and then they're done. So that I'm very bullish on it. I will be attending next year.

Matt Cundill  14:37  
I kind of wonder what the impact of the London podcast show has had on this decision and where this is going to go. So I thought, oh, a show in London that'll be busy. Which it was, there was a lot of people who attended, but there was also creators and the business, there was room for everybody in the room. And I wonder if they're trying to replicate this by putting it in New York, where it's close to. Madison Avenue, where, as David mentioned, there are a ton of creators up and down the coast. You just go where the population is. Nothing against Dallas, Denver, even DC, but you're just going to draw more if you put it in New York City. Yes, it's going to cost a little more, but hopefully we get more bang for our buck,

Jon Gay  15:21  
I will say, in a conversation I had with former podcast super friend guest Jane Atlas and keynoter Hal rood. I forget which one of them mentioned this to me, but they suggested that maybe for someone like us, that pod Fest in Orlando in January might be a good fit, because there's a lot more independent creators. There's a lot more of the folks that we typically work with there. So that's also on my radar for January, is Orlando, but still unsure, because I'll be planning on going to New York in September, also. So

Johnny Podcasts  15:48  
and for the people listening, when it comes to these conferences, you get one, you get out of it, what you put into it, whether it's networking, actually going the sessions, paying attention and meeting people and putting yourself out there, but two. Look at these two events. Look at past sessions, at Podcast Movement. Look at podcasts. Look at the London podcast show. Look at the types of content that you're seeing there, and pick which one is best for you. If you're a host looking to become a better podcaster, maybe it's podcast. Maybe it's the London show. If you're someone just working in the industry. Who wants to move up in the industry? Move around in the industry. Network, more maybe Podcast Movement is more for you. So look at all of these events. There's something for everybody. But again, you get out of it. What you put into it?

David Yas  16:33  
Well, a lot of just picking up on what you said earlier, Johnny, a lot of, I mean, stating the obvious. A lot of companies in across every industry, real estate, the big companies that have marketing departments typically will have somebody who is the podcast person, if that is a train ride, if that is, you know, spending a couple of days in New York, they're going to probably go on a lot of conferences in New York anyway. So in addition to all of us, the Super Friends, you know, if case you missed it, you know, we deal with clients. So I agree with you, Johnny, we should be the ones going to Podcast Movement and bringing the advice back to our clients. But in like regard, people who are either in house marketing for a lot of these companies that have podcasts, or obviously, I guess, independent, you know, PR companies and marketing companies,

Catherine O'Brien  17:24  
Jack. Can you give a little bit of a read here? So one of the things that I think you mentioned about just this going to New York is it's kind of a signal. It's like saying, if we're, if we're considering that Podcast Movement is somehow representative of podcasting, you know, the whole industry. And now we're going to New York for Podcast Movement. It's like saying there have been a lot of sessions, there have been a lot of talk and all these things about smaller creators, building dedicated sponsorships, building membership sites, doing all these things. And to me, it's like interesting that part of it is saying we're going for the ad money. We're trying to get this slice of this bigger pot. And can you do you feel that Is that, am I in the ballpark

Jon Gay  18:10  
there? What are your thoughts there? Yeah, I think you're spot on with that. Catherine, you know, the counterpoint would be one of the great keynotes that was the podcast study done by by by Hal rude and and Tim Brown, I believe his name is I'm going to put up out of my notes here. But talking about for independent creators, there's monetization opportunities around email, newsletters, merch, things like that. I'm actually scrolling through my notes. But yeah. Hal rudol, strategic solutions, research and Tim Brown of point to point marketing, they presented one of the keynotes called the podcast study, and one of their takeaways was that you can really, you know, people who are passionate about your podcast will spend money with you, whether it's a Patreon, whether it's buying, you know, merch, you know, T shirts, or something cleverly to your topic. So there is that if you're an independent creator, here's how you can make money doing it. If you haven't reached, you know, 10,000 downloads and you're selling to Mattress Firm and ziprecruiter. But I think your greater point is, right, Katherine, the industry is saying, hey, Madison Avenue, we want those dollars because your target audience, you know, they're not watching aside from sports, they're not watching live TV. They're DVR, ing, everything. All this money you're spending on television advertising, you might be better off to spend it in the podcasting space, where you're going to connect with people on a deeper level.

Johnny Podcasts  19:26  
Jack, how big was the AI track at Podcast Movement,

Jon Gay  19:31  
there were several sessions on it. A couple of my key takeaways on the AI piece of it were the AI is best in workflow for your workflow. You know, I use it for things like show notes and summarization, and we've talked about that in our offline and our online calls, the five of us. Interestingly, AI is viewed differently on different continents. The North America is kind of the middle ground in Europe, they have a lot tighter regulations around it, so they're a little bit. More handcuffed and Africa, this was a worldwide panel that I said, and Africa, the opposite is true. They are so resource thin in a lot of places in that part of the world, they're relying on AI much more so, less in Europe, more in Africa and North America seems to be kind of the middle ground of it. But again, the key takeaway for AI is part of the selling point of podcasting is authenticity. You're having an actual conversation. You're letting somebody into that conversation. When you start using AI for things like show thumbnails that you can tell it's an AI image or or, you know, artificial voice, things like that, just because you can doesn't mean you should when you start seeing things that are clearly AI driven, that really can hurt the credibility and that authenticity piece of the podcast that was my big takeaway from it.

Johnny Podcasts  20:52  
And then, sorry, go ahead. Matt Jack, I

Matt Cundill  20:54  
just wanted to ask because it's, I mean, they make a lot of money from exhibitors on the floor. And, you know, I think, I mean, one of the first one ever hears, you know, Todd Cochran, over at blueberry, who keeps a running count of the number of creators who will drop by the booth, and how many leads he he gets from that. And you've got to have creators come to this show in order to get exhibitors who, you know, want to be, you know, on the floor. Now, at in London, there was a lot of cameras for sale because of, you know, the buzz on podcast and video, but there was still a lot of podcast hosts as well. So when you look at what you saw on the on the floor, versus what is going to be needed for the future, you just can't do this show without having some sort of invite for creators.

Jon Gay  21:39  
Yeah. What was really interesting, Matt was Riverside was there. And we've all had various experience with Riverside. I've become a big fan of them lately. However, their direct competitor, descript, which purchased squad cast, I made several laps on the floor. So I don't want to say 100% they weren't there, because it's possible I missed them, and I was in a daze, and I didn't see them. But I was very, very surprised and disappointed to not see a bigger presence from squad, cast and descript. It was interesting to me that they did not send a team there, even somebody like simple cast, who's the host that I use, the tech guys that are usually there, they weren't able to make it this time. But there were representatives there who from ADS whiz, which simple cast has acquired, that's their advertising platform. They were able to answer my questions about about ads whiz, which was great, and I got some face time with them, which is one of the reasons I go to this is to spend face time with vendors that I use year round. But yeah, there were, you know, there were some oddball exhibitors that didn't seem to have a lot to do with podcasting. In case you're wondering, you've been to this convention before. There were no puppies. Nobody had the puppy. So there was not an exhibit with puppies, sadly. But, but to your point about London and the video, Matt B and H out of New York, B and H, photo and video. They were there. They had a massive setup. I learned a lot about cameras. So I learned some stuff from Johnny and some stuff from from B and H, about cameras to use if you want nice, you know, 1080, or 4k video quality for your podcast and not have to use a webcam for to use like a real mirrorless camera. Some of the it's pricey, another reason to strike against video, but some of that, and they had a road caster video set up and some road casters and a whole bunch of microphones, and it was good to learn from them. You know, what they have in the space? You know? I would have liked to see more from Rode. I would have liked to see more from, you know, Shore. Sure, I take them actually. I believe Shore was there, but yeah, not as many exhibitors as years past, either. And who's

Matt Cundill  23:38  
going to be put in charge of getting the Airbnb for us next year in New York.

Johnny Podcasts  23:42  
Yeah, let's go. David, he lives the club.

Catherine O'Brien  23:46  
I could do some scouting. Yeah, I ended up in the pod hotel.

David Yas  23:51  
Nothing wrong with the pod hotel. Ironically, it is really

Johnny Podcasts  23:54  
surprising that descript didn't have a presence there, on one hand, because it is such a valuable tool in podcasting. I know all five of us use it to some degree or another. But on the other hand, jag, like you said, if or Matt, like you said, If there aren't a lot of individual creators showing up, I mean, what? What is descript gonna offer to the ad sales rep guy from you know,

Matt Cundill  24:21  
Libsyn, like, I don't know.

Johnny Podcasts  24:24  
So it's just one of those things where I would expect in a podcast convention, and I mentioned this on our call, is that I've got three or four descript guys sitting there with laptops, and I walk up to them and I go, Hey, I'm only using descript for this. I'm wondering if I can get some help on the video editing side with the script. Can I pull up my laptop and show you what I'm doing and you walk me through how to do it like that is the sort of the hands on individual creator stuff that you would be expecting from a convention like this. Sadly, it just wasn't there.

Jon Gay  24:55  
Riverside. Was was in several sessions along have with having the. Are both and I this May this will be a good tidbit for our listeners who use Riverside. I said, Hey, I'm having this weird thing with Riverside. When I log into it, it freezes for 30 seconds before everybody shows up on my screen. I said, what are you what are you using? I said, I'm using Chrome. That was always we were told, use Chrome. Use Chrome. Try Microsoft Edge. What that still exists

Catherine O'Brien  25:21  
words that have never been spoken.

Jon Gay  25:23  
And I did Firefox, and I did and it worked great. So I so if you're having issues with Chrome on Riverside, you can also try edge. And they didn't tell me this. I'm not quoted in this, but I would assume Firefox and Safari too. But I was very surprised

Johnny Podcasts  25:39  
that Safari is a no go, a no go. Okay, Safari is a no go. For you Mac users out there, I use brave browser that that's what I use for my main browser works great for Riverside. I've never had an issue with it. Thank

Jon Gay  25:52  
you for answering the Mac piece of it.

Johnny Podcasts  25:55  
And brave is free, easy download. Looks exactly like Chrome

Matt Cundill  25:59  
for the benefit of our listeners who are not seeing the scroll on on the video. Our next episode is going to be September the 30th, international podcast. Day 11am Eastern will be the time we'll have Kendall brittman from Riverside, who is going to give us tips and tricks and answer all your Riverside questions,

Jon Gay  26:20  
by the way, on the riverside users Facebook group. She's on it, so I'm looking forward to having her

Matt Cundill  26:24  
on international podcast day is September 30,

Catherine O'Brien  26:29  
and just a reminder and a pro tip, all the candy and the ornaments and the cars go on sale on the day after

Johnny Podcasts  26:35  
international you know what sucks? What sucks is because we have a guest we none of us can celebrate podcasts, international podcast day by drinking on the show, we have to be sharp as a tack and on our game to you know, host Kendall,

Matt Cundill  26:46  
it's, I mean, it's 6pm or 7pm where she's going to be in Tel Aviv so you know, maybe she'll be in a more festive mood.

Catherine O'Brien  26:54  
And if anybody says podcast Seasons Greetings, you know that does not fly. We say Happy International podcast.

Jon Gay  27:03  
We say Mary Podcast,

Sarah Burke (Voiceover)  27:13  
the podcast. Super Friends. Support podcasting 2.0 so feel free to send us a boost if you're listening on a newer podcast app, find the full list at new podcast apps.com,

Matt Cundill  27:24  
jag. Next,

Jon Gay  27:25  
okay. Next, speaking of universal tips, Taylor Swift, everybody is big. Everybody saw the Taylor Swift or heard about the Taylor Swift. Travis Kelsey episode of The Kelsey brothers new heights podcast. Jay Yao, who was a producer engineer, who I who gave this session, who I really like, and have become a big fan of, he pulled up on the screen the shot of Taylor and Travis, and they both had big headphones on. And so we've all dealt with hosts and CO hosts and guests especially, oh, I don't want to wear headphones, or I don't like how headphones are going to look on video. If you, if you're watching the video right now, you'll see all five of us have studio quality headphones on so the next time you have a guest say, Oh, I don't like the look of headphones, his direct quote was, if Tay Tay can wear headphones. So can you? Your biggest pop star in the world is wearing headphones because they recorded it on Riverside, and Jason Kelsey was not in the same state as Travis and Taylor. So in order to hear each other and not have to use Echo cancelation, which will cause distortion if both people talk and laugh at the same time, everybody had headphones on. If Tay taken, wear headphones. So can you and so can your guests.

David Yas  28:39  
But you haven't said the reason why, I mean, the reason I typically give to people in my in my studio when they don't want to wear headphones, is it's it's going to make for a better show if you can hear what your voice sounds like as I mean, I can't imagine not doing headphones. I just can't. I mean, I'm sure none of us can, right? But I feel like, if someone insists upon it, I'll say, sure, you know, but then it sort of makes the producer's job a little more difficult to monitor the level of your voice. And you know what I tell people, is you might do this all of a sudden, and now we can't hear you, and then you won't know that you just reached over to grab your water, and you said the most important thing in the middle of your interview. Do you guys agree?

Johnny Podcasts  29:25  
Oh, totally instant feedback. Yeah. One of my favorite pot like, of my actual in person podcasting career. One of my favorite things that I ever saw was the guy they didn't want to wear headphones, and as the episode would go there in these chairs with wheels, and as he would stop, he was just getting so animated. And he just was slowly just, you know, and by you know, I had to stop the recording because he ended up over here. I was like, we can't hear what you're saying. And also, you're at a camera frame. He's like, I'm sorry, I'm sorry. I didn't know. And in my head, I was like, should I wear headphones? Shouldn't wear that phone?

David Yas  30:00  
Like to find it right? It also just gets you in the zone. I think that's what I tell people. It gets if you feel more like a podcaster when

Matt Cundill  30:05  
you do it, and air pods are not headphones. No, God no,

Johnny Podcasts  30:09  
oh, air pods are fine on Riverside. Come on, we don't we? People listening. You do not need to go out there and buy these $150 over ear headphones if you're just guessing on a podcast. It is just common courtesy to have your Airpods are fine. You just, it's for remote. I think AirPods are totally fine. You just need to be able to hear the other person in your ears.

Catherine O'Brien  30:29  
I find they interfere, yeah,

Matt Cundill  30:31  
I find that sometimes they interfere with the with the recording, depending on the WiFi and how they connect.

Jon Gay  30:41  
I will say air pods, in a pinch, as headphones, but never as a microphone. You're better off with your built in, of course, as a microphone and wired. Always preferred to Bluetooth, because to that point, Matt, Bluetooth gives you one more fail point as always,

Matt Cundill  30:56  
yeah, like sometimes maybe, oh, the microphone will just switch over to the air pods, and then things get confusing.

Johnny Podcasts  31:03  
No, you're right. You're right when you if you were a host and you were running your show, the air pods are not an option. I standing on that wall.

Jon Gay  31:12  
If I Matt, do I have sharing permission in this podcast? I should. I want to. I want to really make here. This is to the importance of this is to the importance of here. I'll make it a little bit bigger here, first impressions in a podcast. This is from, again, this is from the podcast study, one of the keynotes, which was fantastic. How much time will you listen to or watch a podcast for the first time before you give up on it? 4% will only give it 30 seconds. 6% will give it a minute. Give it a minute. 41% will actually give it five whole minutes. So you do the math on that, that's pretty generous. Yeah, that's more than I would have thought. 50% of people are gone after five minutes. You had better, better, better. Do a good job with that first impression, or they're out. And I'm going to pull up another slide here, when a second that really emphasizes this here,

Johnny Podcasts  32:07  
well, those 4% left after 30 seconds because the audio quality was horrendous, agreed, in the last five minutes. Give

Jon Gay  32:16  
me as I'm going to try to find one more slide here.

Johnny Podcasts  32:21  
It's good intermission time to tell the listeners that if you want to see these slides, head on over to YouTube. Watch the show on video. We all have beautiful setups. We're all very attractive people, and you'll enjoy it.

Matt Cundill  32:32  
That's great. However, I'm cutting this out of the audio.

Jon Gay  32:37  
Never mind. Let me. Let me share one more here with

Catherine O'Brien  32:40  
you. It's an Easter egg for the people who you know the real ones go, Yeah, real

Johnny Podcasts  32:44  
ones. Real ones. Watch live nursing this Labor Day hangover.

Jon Gay  32:49  
This is another one. So do you prefer the host start the podcast by diving right into the main topic, or do you prefer a little relaxed chit chat? So 33% say, dive into the topic right away, and 42% say, if you can have some chit chat, but keep it real short. Add those two numbers up. You've got 75% three out of four podcast listeners want either short or no chit chat. Give me the reason at the beginning of that podcast to stick around or I'm gone

David Yas  33:19  
start with the good stuff, it's actually a little more forgiving than I would have guessed. I would I agree, you know, I would have guessed no chit chat. But the fact of the matter is, if you become loyal to a podcast and you look forward to it every week, you probably don't mind the chit chat, because why you like the hosts? You keep coming back, yeah, and you feel like you're part of their little family now, but if you're a new listener, that's what I think we have to keep reminding ourselves as podcast hosts, is, what if someone's listening for the first time, and your show is about auto repair, and you've been talking about Cheerios and Frosted Flakes for three minutes, it's like, what the heck? What am I doing? You

Johnny Podcasts  34:00  
have to eat breakfast before you fix your car. You can't

Jon Gay  34:03  
just go I'm really glad you said that, Dave, because the other slide from this I wanted to show when you try a podcast for the first time and you're disappointed. How likely are you to try it a second time? 41% are not likely to give you another chance. 40% are somewhat likely. So only 19% of people are likely, very likely, to give you a second chance. There's a four out of five chance they're not coming back. So when your most recent episode is listed first in Spotify or Apple, and you don't give them something good out of the gate, you have lost them. It is cliche, but you only get one chance at a first impression.

Johnny Podcasts  34:42  
I don't know. I'm a half glass full on this, somewhat likely. I think that's a bad that's that to me when I read that means that I've got another chance the red, the red is a no go zone. I'm looking at this as six out of 10 times I'm going to get another shot at the out or another. Yeah,

Matt Cundill  34:59  
that's why the. Green slides are together, right?

Speaker 1  35:01  
Yeah, yeah.

Johnny Podcasts  35:05  
One, one more thing before we dove into that slide was the chip back onto the chit chat part. Piece of the conversation was exactly what Dave mentioned. It jumped into my mind is like, this is an auto repair podcast. This isn't a chit chat podcast. You as the host have to determine what kind of show are we? If we're a comedy podcast, if we're sort of a bantery podcast, if your podcast is a chit chat podcast that doesn't apply to you, but if you're doing a like a true crime podcast, or you're a news show, or you're some kind of more serious, more businessy, buttoned up type deal. Your audience is probably not looking for the chit chat banter, so you have to, you know, take all this with a grain of salt. What kind of podcast? You know, take your show, apply it to the advice. With that in mind,

David Yas  35:52  
also, there are ways to kind of strike a balance, I think, like if you say, you know, welcome to Joe and Bob's auto repair shop. We're going to talk about the troubles with the new Mitsubishi battle. Not a car guy, I don't know. But before we do that, we just want to answer a little viewer mail. And by the way, later in the show, we're going to get to x, y, z. So I think if you I always try to keep in mind the listener is here for this. Let's do this little funny stuff, but they know it's coming. And by the way, it better be coming soon. And if it's not coming soon, then remind them again. It's like, Thanks for your patience, everybody. We just wanted to shout out a couple listeners. We're gonna get right to the whatever. I was just

Jon Gay  36:33  
gonna say that same thing, Dave. Like, if you know you're kind of pleasing both both beasts there, because you can do a little banter, but just set it up and just say, Hey, if you're new here, we're gonna talk about this however. You know, we wanna also have a little fun here and talk about X, Y, Z.

Matt Cundill  36:50  
I think that's a good point. Jack about assumptions. We assume that everybody has listened to every episode since episode one, and everybody knows everything about us. And this is why we do our intros every week on the show. And we are at episode, I don't know, 40 something, 50 something, yet we still do our intros every week on this show.

Catherine O'Brien  37:11  
There's, there's some kind of adage about easy reading is hard writing. I think there's, there could be a parallel to podcasting where it's like sounding flawless and easy, breezy banter. It seems like, oh, anybody could do that. We're just, we're just having this fun, casual, lighthearted conversation. But actually, banter is not easy to convey to a wide audience. It's hard to do at scale. It's that is not an easy thing to do, and most, I'm going to say, most people, even good podcasters probably aren't as good as the Easy, breezy, following banter that we might think that we

Johnny Podcasts  37:47  
are. Well, imagine you're a solo show, but solo banter, it's got to be just impossible. You have all your notes and everything you're going to talk about in front of you. Take away the co host or the guest, out of the out of the equation. Solo banter is just insane.

Jon Gay  38:00  
One. I won't bother with a slide with this one. But my other key takeaway from from that session was folks really love on average, three podcasts. Three. Three podcasts are the ones they're going to listen to, and 75% of them have a strong preference for number one out of those three. So if you really want to crack into somebody's routine, you got to make that top three and ideally be their top one. So the bar is high.

Johnny Podcasts  38:25  
Well, it's it's a great point. It means you like that should be so inspiring for you as the host. What more energy or kick in the butt do you need to make the best podcast possible than be like I every episode, every time I sit down behind the mic, every guest that I book, every promote piece of promotional material. Promotional material that I put out, is trying to knock one of those three off the ledge, and boom, I made it onto the third spot. All right, next week I'm going to knock that second guy off. I'm going to move up to the second spot, and in six weeks, I'm going to be at the top spot. I'm going to be this, this person's favorite podcast. That's like, the energy and approach you should be taking to all of this. And if you don't feel that, maybe you rethink the whole podcasting thing, because that is, you know, you're making it on that Olympic podium. Yeah, you're making this for somebody. It should, it should really hype you up to do that. I

Catherine O'Brien  39:14  
like the Olympic podium. And I you just said that, Jack, that's a great way to think about it. Who's your the gold medal, silver or bonds there, you know that's you're in against tough competition there to get, get to that podium. Uh, jag, I know that you should you shared with us that there was a lot of some good discussion about podcast reach, and that we're having, we're experiencing some good, positive directions on podcast reach. Could you share it a little bit with us about that?

Jon Gay  39:40  
Yeah, and this was from Tom Webster's sound profitable keynote. And he essentially said, just bear with me as I'm going back to my notes here. But he basically said that we're kind of, we're kind of, I don't wanna say maxed out, but we're really big in terms of podcast overall reach. That 90 in their study of 5000 people this year, 96% are familiar with the term podcasting. So his line was that reach has flattened, but TSL, or for non rated people, time spent listening has grown. So it's really about getting existing podcast listeners over to your show and spending more time with it. It's not about making the tent bigger. The tents pretty big. It's about really reaching the people who are inside that tent. Was my takeaway from from Tom Webster's thing, and then the the age old audio or video conversation. Again, my favorite analogy ever for this came from Johnny when he said that audio are your shoes, and video is your socks. So you can go out without socks. You really can't go without shoes. And the number of folks who define a podcast as audio or video, that number really has grown, has grown. So ideally, you can be both, but in but, but if you're can only do one or the other, and you don't have the time or the resources or the or the technical expertise to do video, just do audio. Audio is fine. A number of folks who consume podcasts on YouTube aren't watching. They're just listening while they do their spreadsheets or they walk their dog, or they drive their car or they clean their house, the audio is so much more important in an ideal world. Sure, produce video, but the audio is really the most important.

Matt Cundill  41:21  
Yeah, so was there any angst over that? Because I found there was a lot of angst over video in London. Like, there was a real pressure that we got to do it, kind of like that same pressure of, you need 10,000 downloads, like you need to have video. Have people landed in that spot where, you know, audio and video is, you know, it's not binary. It's one and the other and the shoes and socks, like Johnny's analogy. I

Jon Gay  41:47  
think, you know, Tom's takeaway was that, if we see when you expect a podcast, when you think of a podcast, you expect to be audio or video. 21% said audio, only 38% the biggest slice of the pie, said usually audio, but maybe video. 25% maybe either only 3% said video only, and 13, only 13% said usually video, but maybe audio. So in their in their group of respondents here, you know audio was still the assumption, but with the option for video. And really, I always say the compromise here is shoot video of your audio podcast. You don't have to have a super slick produced video product of the whole interview, but have a couple 30, 60/92, clips that you can put subtitles on, or you can put on YouTube shorts, Instagram and Facebook reels, Tiktok, Snapchat, your short video platform of choice, because that's gonna drive discovery and awareness. That's going to get people to find out about your podcast by getting it up on social media, and it's also going to reinforce folks who have found your podcast, remind them about your show. It's gonna drive impressions. Just you talk about advertisers, they want impressions, impressions, impressions. You're gonna create more impressions by doing those short term video podcasts, and

Johnny Podcasts  43:04  
when you don't do video you're just you're shutting out a whole side of the market, which is YouTube. And yes, we've said you can upload audio only to YouTube, but, I mean, are we really going to say that someone's going to YouTube to seek out an audio only podcast? Probably not. And

Jon Gay  43:18  
there are, there are, there are people who are going to YouTube, who are consuming it. YouTube is now beating apple and Spotify for consumption, and that includes audio only podcasts Correct.

Johnny Podcasts  43:29  
I, I would, I would, I would have to see the data that says that audio only podcast consumption on YouTube is above X threshold before I'm going for that. If you're, if you're already recording it on Riverside, you might as well just throw it out. Throw it out there on YouTube.

David Yas  43:44  
I always say it's more that it's it's better than nothing on on YouTube, because people can find your YouTube is an incredibly powerful search engine, so people might find your podcast on YouTube and then listen to it on audio or listen to it on whatever. But yes, yeah, but at

Johnny Podcasts  44:00  
least you're right. You're right the majority of the time it's going to be consumed in your pocket. Matt hits on this all the time it's there. Has. We have not reached the point where people are settling down at the end of the day, pouring themselves a glass of whatever, pulling out their pizza from the oven and throwing on a YouTube podcast to watch for an hour, true,

Matt Cundill  44:20  
but we are seeing a lot of people just put the YouTube on on their phone, stick it in their pocket and go for a walk. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And that's, that's, I think, a stat came out today, and it was like 49% of, you know, people listening, are consuming their podcast on YouTube with just audio only. I will go pull that up just to make sure that I'm

Jon Gay  44:41  
not that never sounds right when I remember seeing that I'm gonna back you up on that without

Johnny Podcasts  44:46  
having the actual data, maybe my maybe my trepidation on it, then is the the willingness for someone like YouTube to promote an audio only channel, because your podcast can, you can have a podcast channel, I'm talking about like a YouTube. Channel where you're just putting up a static image and the audio is your episode. I podcast on YouTube. Yeah, I just am. I am more concerned that YouTube is not willing to promote something like that into somebody else's feed over a visual component with the podcast.

Jon Gay  45:18  
So I do want to, I do want to give you a different side of something I mentioned earlier. So I talked about, you know, how competitive it is to get into somebody's, you know, Olympic podium. The flip side of this, and these numbers are updated every year from Rob Walter Blitzen. I always go to his presentation every year. So shout out Robbie. And he's, he's a grading and he was, we recently had him as a cast, I believe, didn't we on the show? Was that Rob we had no it's different. It was Rob Greenlee. We had Rob Greenlee. We had, okay, yeah, it was, sometimes we have those two, because got those two confused. Rob Walsh from Lipson. You talked about how, at how, you know, active versus inactive podcasts. And forgive me for holding my phone, because I'm referring in my notes here. But if you were to Google, how many podcasts are out there, that number is now up to 4.6 3 million podcasts, and you'd say, oh god. How am I going to compete with over four and a half million podcasts? Well, you dig a little bit deeper, how many of those 4.7 million podcasts have reached 10 episodes and put something out in the last 90 days? 467,000 that is 10% of those podcasts have actually put something out the last 90 days. Zoom in a little further. How many have put something out in 60 days? Only 400,000 in the last month, only 320,000 of the in the last 10 days, only 215,000 how many have put something out in the last three days, 97,000 less than 100,000 out of that 4.7 million. So if you take even that 90 day number, which is 467,000 compare that with the number of blogs out there. Actually, we'll compare it the 355 54,000 number 354,000 you know, podcasts out there. There's 757 million blogs out there. The ratio of active podcast to blogs is 2000 to one. How have often have you heard somebody say, I'm not going to start a blog because there's too many blogcasts out there, too many podcasts. Let me try that again. How often have you heard edit here, Matt, how often have you heard someone say, I'm not going to do a blog because there are too many blogs out there. I've never heard that in my life. There are 2000 blogs for every one active podcast out there. Don't let the numbers scare you if you're going to do it, if you're going to do it, do it.

Matt Cundill  47:28  
And I would love to see a number that would do the last 30 days of, you know, YouTube videos that versus, I mean, I mean, where do you want to have your fight?

Jon Gay  47:41  
I want to do a huge I'm not going to do a YouTube page because there's too many YouTube videos out there, billions of minutes, billions of videos get uploaded every minute. You know, if you're good and you have an audience, they'll find you as long as it's well promoted, YouTube

Johnny Podcasts  47:55  
sees approximately 518,400 hours of New content uploaded every day. That's over 360 hours of video uploaded every minute. Yeah, yeah,

Catherine O'Brien  48:12  
Hey, Jack back to before we leave. Reach. You also shared some just tips or some realities about people focusing on SEO for podcasting and maybe putting putting together blog posts, putting together these things there, it seems like there's been a little bit of a accepting the reality of SEO for podcasting. Can you talk about that a little bit?

Jon Gay  48:35  
I am so glad you mentioned this Catherine, because this is really important. So the two acronyms that I've learned are SEO, search engine optimization, which we know from websites that's more about showing up in Google and chat GPT and then PSO, podcast search optimization. So first to SEO, you're actually going to rank more likely for specific episodes in Google than your show. So the advice that I got from Podcast Movement was, think of your podcast as an album. Think of your top episodes as your radio singles. Which singles are you going to release on the radio? By the way, this would be a great time to mention Dave's podcast past past tense. So

Matt Cundill  49:20  
wait a minute,

Speaker 1  49:21  
was that the top 10 Time Machine? Oh, thank you.

Johnny Podcasts  49:27  
I thought that that got taken down. I thought Spotify had struck that from your sound

Jon Gay  49:32  
board. I'm gonna make it on Spotify because he used the jingle. So Google and chat GPT are gonna rank your specific episodes. So really put some effort into if you've got three great episodes, really, you know, put I'm not going to say keyword stuff or do anything untoward, but, but think about really optimizing your show notes, maximizing that field, getting your transcript up, things like that. Also important for Google, Google on their results, is going to show. Really, 55 characters, seven words. Think about that. In your Show, episode titles, you don't necessarily need your guest name in the title, and that will that surprised me, and may surprise some of you or some of our listeners, because think about it. If I if you have John Gay on your show, there are not a lot of people googling John Gay. If you have Taylor Swift on your show, you're probably going to be getting a few more hits by that, you know, hence why my blog post for this is going to be called Taylor Swift into the future of Podcast Movement, because I mentioned both in the recap. So I'm not just spamming because I'm talking about the Taylor Swift headphone thing and I'm talking about the future Podcast Movement. So another one. Of course, Reddit. Reddit is huge. There are 1.2 billion active users on Reddit. Don't be Don't forget about Reddit. Think about tools like Google Keyword Planner, a site by Neil Patel called Ask the public your show description is going to max out at 4000 characters. Feel free to use all 4000 and then on the PSO, as I mentioned podcast search optimization, we had a great Rob made a great point in that your search results in Apple are different before and after you click the Search button. As you start typing in, you will get auto filled search results when you hit the actual search button. Those results may change, so pay attention to how your stuff is showing up when you're searching in the chat. And then also, Apple is going to prioritize your show title, not your episode titles. So make sure your show title is optimized. Make sure it's not just something clever and cute. Make sure that it's relevant to what it is that people are going to be searching for, and then also number of followers or unpaid subscribers down all time. Your Spotify and Apple are going to rank for that they're going to rank for, excuse me, title of the show, the author of the show, very important. And then followers. So podcast search optimization of the apple and Spotify charts that's more based on the actual show. Google and chat GPT are going to list more specific episodes. So there are two beasts to feed when it comes to search,

Johnny Podcasts  52:12  
but Jack, I have the top 50 investing podcasts on the Apple podcast charts. How does that help me?

Jon Gay  52:18  
I have a number on that somewhere, but which would take me a minute to find, the number of folks who are finding stuff off charts is slim. It's more about what they're going to find in search. People are not looking at the charts. I hate to say it, because I have clients that get excited when they get on the Apple podcast charts, and I don't want to rain on their parade, but it like, sometimes, like downloads, it's an ego metric. It's It's great. It's great. It's a great piece of marketing to be able to say I'm top 25 and apples, investing charts or or anything like that. But is it really going to help you show up in search? Maybe, maybe not,

Johnny Podcasts  52:53  
get yourself a plaque and then up, up, up your SEO game.

Jon Gay  52:58  
Catherine was nodding about something a moment alone.

Catherine O'Brien  53:01  
I it is a it has marketing value. And I think that people should not. I think podcasters should capitalize on that. And any, any little marketing opportunity that you get, you should take.

Johnny Podcasts  53:12  
No, you should. I was just making the joke that, no, no, just you shouldn't rely on that. We're like, Well, why aren't more people finding me? I'm top XYZ in the charts and well put to lead jag to say, like it's not where people are finding stuff. It is a good it is very great, very admirable.

Matt Cundill  53:27  
A super article that Steve Goldstein wrote really puts the question to how many, how answerable is your podcast? Are there answers within your podcast that are on your blog that it's going to go and use to, you know, to categorize and to and to put in for, you know, for AI, even AI is going to be able to capture that stuff, because we're always asking questions. So how answerable, you know, is your podcast? I'm going to put that link in the show notes, by the way. Please do Yep. Jag, was there anything on discoverability

Jon Gay  54:08  
in regards to what, specifically,

Matt Cundill  54:10  
how people are discovering podcasts?

Jon Gay  54:14  
I think we've covered a lot of it so far, but I'm trying to find a slide on the on that because, gosh, I've got some. Oh, here we go. Podcast discovery, total sample. Let me see if I can grab that one real quick here and pull it up for our video folks here.

Johnny Podcasts  54:30  
Because I think the last time we discussed it, Matt, we found that word of mouth share had dropped quite a bit, right, right?

Matt Cundill  54:37  
Yeah, so I'm gonna

Jon Gay  54:38  
really hear that slide for you. Let me pull let me pull that up for you right now. All right, for our video listeners, again, this is from the podcast study.com that we talked about earlier. So social media, those videos. This is why this is so important, 62% so these numbers add up, obviously, to more than 100% because people pick three ways they find podcasts. Top for our audio listeners. Top is 62% that's social media. So they're finding those short form clips, or they're seeing a friend of theirs share it, and then related, 57% number two, friends and family. And then next, the next, distant third, was suggestions from the platform where you get podcasts. So that might be, it could be charts, but it could also be, you know, what you're typing to search, that's 35% 25% from an ad during a podcast, and then stuff like music, streaming, ads, billboards, stuff like that at the very bottom. But social media, I call new school word of mouth, friends and family. I call old school word of mouth. Those two are massively number one and two,

Catherine O'Brien  55:42  
don't laugh at billboards because in here locally, in Baton Rouge, I noticed there was a billboard with a guy's podcast on it, and he had a QR code. And I unfortunately did not get my phone out quick enough to get it, but I wanted to reach out and say, I want to hear, I want to hear the results of this billboard. How did it go? I'm curious. I'm very curious.

Johnny Podcasts  56:00  
Is there anything less safe than a QR code on a building, on a billboard next to a highway?

Speaker 1  56:06  
Oh, yeah,

Jon Gay  56:10  
let me put down my cigarette and my sandwich and and pull out my phone while I'm

Johnny Podcasts  56:14  
driving. Or it's easy, because you're already on your phone, texting and driving, and you just whip it up. It's just an easy

Catherine O'Brien  56:20  
and because I'm in South Louisiana at my daiquiri I'll put, let me put that in the Oh, right,

Jon Gay  56:26  
drive through daiquiris.

Speaker 1  56:27  
Just a joke. I see that, you know,

Matt Cundill  56:29  
social media being number one. I think everybody would look at that and sort of say, Okay, well, we have to have some social media. And yes, having social media is a good thing, but I think once you put it out there, the worry is, is that it doesn't catch and it goes into, you know, algorithm hell. And good luck to see, you know, if that's going to work or not work. And so I've worked, been working on some podcasts that have done, you know, really well on the social media side, but we don't always see the growth. And I'm like, well, you're building an audience on that social media platform, they may not necessarily be coming to your show, and if you do want to see results with your show, I would say anything you can do to get yourself and your podcast in front of people is really a great strategy. So don't stop doing your social media, and don't stop, you know, leaning on your content and putting it out there, but anything you can do to get in front of other people and tell people about your show. That's really going to help your growth? I agree. Yeah. I just see, I see people seeing the social media number at the top, and figure they just have to push all in on it. And I don't think it's always the best.

Jon Gay  57:34  
Those videos, though, will feed that social media algorithm, because they want to put to that point, Matt, they want Facebook and Instagram and whoever want to keep you in their ecosystem. So by putting video natively in that ecosystem, you're staying there as opposed to going to the podcast. But make it easy, get a link up there to the podcast, you know, lead them to water, so to speak, so that it's, it's one less friction point of, oh, that sounds like an interesting podcast, as opposed to oh, I have to remember the podcast next time I pull up Apple or Spotify or YouTube, and what was the name of that podcast? Again, Facebook showed me that video, and now it's long gone. To make it easy when you're putting that content out there, to lead them to through that hoop to that to your

Matt Cundill  58:12  
podcast. Okay, and so what is the source of this slide? Again, this

Jon Gay  58:16  
is the podcast study this, which looks like strategic solutions. Yep, it's Hal rude and Tim Brown from point to point marketing. And this was, I will say, my favorite keynote of the of the entire weekend. And full disclosure hell and I are friends I've known for a long time, but these, this was, this was a very, very thorough study. It's the podcast study.com We'll put the link in the show notes, or Matt will but you can actually get access to

Speaker 1  58:43  
it. So let

Matt Cundill  58:44  
me do this. Do some quick adding. If I take friends and family at 57% and I add in some acquaintances at 16% and then some co workers at 17% I mean, these are all real people telling stories about your podcast. Yes. So word of mouth. Yeah, exactly.

Johnny Podcasts  59:01  
It's why my favorite call to action that you can do in your podcast is share this with somebody who you think would find this valuable, whether it is a co worker or a friend or a family member or an acquaintance, your best promoters are going to be your most rabid fans.

Jon Gay  59:16  
I think them. I think the the rate and review really bled over from YouTube when YouTube crossed over, it's because every YouTube video ever starts with Hey guys and ends with rate and review. And so if you can get away from that on the podcast side, and really, that's how you're going to drive discovery. You're going to get followers, you're going to get more listeners, you're going to get more downloads. And by the way, this piece from from Rob Walsh should be obvious, but I'll say it anyway, do not buy downloads. He spent a fair amount of time telling horror stories from Libsyn clients, where he said, Hey, your download numbers look a little funky. Something going on here. And he talked about innocent podcasters who were in tears on the phone with him, but. He said, Your shows get all these numbers, they're not real. Did you pay a service to help with downloads? And he said, if you compare the number of downloads to the number of unique users, if that ratio is more than his work, his number was two and a half to one. If you've got, say, only 100 users, but 10,000 downloads, something's rotten in Denmark, so to speak, because at that point it's spam, it's junk, and you can't, you can't sell those numbers, because one, they're not real and it's dishonest. But also, the minute you stop forking over that cash to these companies that are bought downloading, you all these, all these downloads, they turn the spigot off and your Sol, yeah,

Matt Cundill  1:00:44  
we're coming up on time as we go around on this. I guess we're done here, right? Anybody got anything bad? No, okay, who is thinking about going to New York in September of next year. Yes, and All right, we just have to convince Catherine

Catherine O'Brien  1:01:06  
to come along for the ride. Yeah, I'm thinking. I'm thinking, I gave you my skeptical look, but I'll think about it especially, especially if the rest of the podcast Super Friends are going to be there. Who am I to say no

Johnny Podcasts  1:01:17  
here, Catherine, that looks good in

Matt Cundill  1:01:19  
any session at Podcast Movement in 2020, all right, that's it for us. We're gonna go around the room and say goodbye. We'll start in Dallas.

Johnny Podcasts  1:01:29  
Bye. Thank you. Please subscribe. Please subscribe to us on YouTube, and if you find this episode valuable, share it with somebody who you think would also find it valuable. Thank

Catherine O'Brien  1:01:42  
you so much for your TSL, your time spent listening to here with the podcast. Super Friends. And I think if you just know one podcaster that would benefit from this, just share this episode with them. This is Catherine signing out from Baton Rouge.

David Yas  1:01:56  
David yazen, Boston, pod 617, dot com and pod we trust. Thank you. See ya

Jon Gay  1:02:02  
John Gay, the designated attendee of Podcast Movement this year. Jag podcast productions, jag podcast productions.com and jag podcast productions on social media, j, A, G

Matt Cundill  1:02:12  
and Jag. Thank you so so much for bringing back all the notes and doing the notes and the slides and a lot of the legwork here for today's show. It is very much appreciated. Thank you very much. So so much. Thank you, Jack.

Johnny Podcasts  1:02:23  
He had to he lost fantasy football this year

Jon Gay  1:02:30  
on a plane this morning. I was great. I just jotted down notes.

Matt Cundill  1:02:34  
I'm Matt Cundill from the sound off Podcast Network. Thanks a lot for for checking us out. And by the way, we are still waiting for our very first person to rate review us, so do that please here.

Sarah Burke (Voiceover)  1:02:48  
Thanks for listening to the podcast, super friends for a transcript of the show, or to connect with the Super Friends, go to the show notes of this episode, or go to sound off dot network,

Tara Sands  1:02:59  
produced and distributed by the sound off media company