Let's Get Social

Tara Sands  0:00  
The podcast, Super Friends, five podcast pros talking tech promotion, marketing ideas and strategy.

Matt Cundill  0:13  
Looks good. I completely forgot we had an absolutely new intro and extra for the show. That was awesome. I'm Matt Cundill in the sound off media company, and this is the podcast, super friends. Welcome to it as described, five podcast producers who get together to talk podcasting. We will go around in clockwise motion and introduce ourselves.

Speaker 1  0:37  
Hi. I'm Johnny from Johnny podcasts, and that was a really badass intro. Thank you for surprising us with it.

Jon Gay  0:43  
Matt, I'm John Gay from jag podcast productions in Detroit.

Speaker 2  0:49  
David Yes, pod 617, dot com, the Boston Podcast Network located in the shadow of Gillette Stadium, home of the first place, New England Patriots club.

Speaker 3  1:00  
Hi everybody. I'm Captain O'Brien. Branch out programs in Baton Rouge, Louisiana.

Matt Cundill  1:05  
I thought that the Buffalo Bills would be owning that division. Like, like, long after, like, the podcast super friends had faded.

Jon Gay  1:13  
You had your window, and now it closed. Yeah.

Matt Cundill  1:18  
So today, I thought we'd talk about social media and effective uses of social media in an episode titled, let's get social and this is one that Catherine decided to to bring up, and in good timing as well. So Catherine, if you could just say a little bit about why you wanted to talk about this today, and also reference an article by Rob Greenlee, which I'm going to put into the comment section of our socials.

Speaker 3  1:41  
That'll be great. Yeah, I'm going to try and land this plane, bring everything together. We've this show's got everything. We've got social media, we've got AI, we've got Rob Greenlee. It's going to be off the hook. So second reference on this is really where the references are flowing here for the podcast, Super Friends, that's great. Well, not too long ago, okay, I have a I love hate relationship with Twitter now. X, I love I am a lurker on on Twitter. I enjoy the ideas that get flowing. And I also, whenever I get to put something out on Twitter, I get the personal, humbling experience of shouting into a void where no one hears me, no one responds, nothing. I could say anything. There's no feedback. There's no nothing. It's it's like standing at the edge of the Grand Canyon and yelling and hearing my own voice back at me. So I find this sort of a to be humorously frustrating. That social media is supposed to be here to be a conversation, especially somewhere like Twitter. And I found a somebody who was in a another industry. They're in the SEO industry, and they were talking about the fact that a lot of people who were involved in SEO have decamped from Twitter, left X for whatever, for all the different reasons, and now that they're on blue sky. And instead of saying, hey, you know, let's, let's all continue and go over to blue sky and have our conversations over there, this person was making the point that if you're in SEO, this is your chance to make a splash on x now you can become that big fish in that small pond, because all so many of these other people have gone out, that was kind of the impetus for my thinking there, but it also in reading Rob greenlee's recent piece where he was talking about, okay podcasters now we are having to think about, what are the implications of AI on our industry. And the first thing I thought was we couldn't even get the social media part down to the where we could man understand and manage it appropriately, and now we have this other factor coming in. So all of those ideas were kind of swirling around the in the background, and that was the sort of the setting, if you would, for Matt and my conversation and decision that like this would be something that's worthwhile for us to be talking about here, yeah. Just, I think, go ahead, yeah.

Matt Cundill  4:04  
So you mentioned that last week, and I thought to myself, Oh, yeah, I feel the same way. So I clipped a little piece, by the way, from Rob and what he wrote, he goes, if you spend a day inside the modern media ecosystem, and you'll see something undeniable, and that's audiences now consume content on living room, streaming devices, social interest, media platforms, and especially YouTube, they want interactivity, presence, personality and the feeling of connection that just don't exist in passive formats like cable or traditional TV and broadcast radio, viewers and listeners want to talk back, participate, react and feel part of a community, and that's where trust is being built today, and it's what what's happening at A massive scale. Now, I know that's sort of a shot at traditional media and TV, but I think there's a lot to be said with social media, because I think that sort of expresses the frustration and loneliness that I'm finding out there where I'm just not getting the reaction that I used to get on social media. So I thought today, if anybody wants to. Art. Talk about their social media experiences, what they're seeing out there, and what might be working on, what might not be working. Who wants to start? I'm just

Jon Gay  5:11  
gonna start jumping with something really generic, which is kind of what might be one of my big takeaways from Podcast Movement this year, which is that short form video is driving podcast discovery as a top form of it not saying it's driving a ton of listenership. We don't think we have enough data on that yet, but it is driving discovery because the best way to spread a podcast is word of mouth. So whether it's old school word of mouth, tell your friends, or new school word of mouth. Social media, I have found podcasts because I see a reel on Facebook or Instagram. Some may find it on Tiktok, Twitter, X blue sky threads and on down the line. So even when I have clients that don't want to do a full video podcast and are only comfortable starting off with audio, back to Johnny's shoes and socks analogy, which I'm going to mention every time for me now to eternity, because it's fantastic. It's gold. But you know, even if they're not doing a video podcast, I have them record the video anyway, even if it's on a webcam on a laptop, because we can take that video, just take 30 seconds or 60 seconds of something that's really good and slap it up as a real, as a YouTube short as any of the above. And I think that goes a long way. I think that's been really effective for me, especially. I go back to something Matt said a while back, which you guys should spend as much time on promotion of your show as you should production, which, which I hated, but he's right for me, the most time efficient way to do that is by is, is the short form videos.

Matt Cundill  6:35  
So to the short form videos Jack, if I don't see any downloads off it. Does that mean that it's a bust like, how am I supposed to measure whether short phone form video is working?

Jon Gay  6:47  
If you think about it, how many times that to our radio days? Matt, how many times did you have to play a record before people started, before it got familiar? 600 how many times you have to run a GEICO commercial before people know what the lizard is, just because you don't see that three months, just because you don't see return on that investment, it's branding, it's repetition, it's impressions. So I think there's value in that.

Speaker 1  7:10  
It's it's the hardest part about the social strategy, which is also, ironically, the hardest part about podcasting, which is consistency. I think a lot of us like myself included, one of my biggest problems with, you know, growing a social profile online is I just don't post enough. I don't I just am not into writing something down every day and posting it. When it comes to promoting your podcast, you can't just post my one reel every other week on one platform, you have to be like, I saw, ironically, a reel of this girl talking about how she blew up on social media, and she was like, my content is not interesting. I like it wasn't necessarily good. I was just posting three times a day. That was my one goal. I posted to Instagram every day, three times a day. Didn't matter if I felt like it. Oftentimes I didn't feel like it, but I did it anyway. Luckily, for the podcaster, you've already recorded all of the content. It's already there. Now the next step is chopping it up. And there are great tools out there, actually one that I kind of want to publicly bash a little bit, but we'll get to that later. There are a lot of tools out there that can help turn your long form content into the tall, vertical videos with captions. Doesn't have to be crazy brain rock content. You can even outsource that. There are entire industries that are just solely dedicated to turning your podcast into shorts, but you have to be consistent about posting it. And when it comes to, okay, well, where should I be posting it? You? You know, probably the safest blanket statement is YouTube shorts, Instagram reels and Tiktok. That's but you know, if you have to choose one that you really want to laser into, that's all podcast dependent. That's your audience dependent. So where is your audience coming from? And that can either be done through surveys, or you're trying all three of the platforms for three months, and seeing where you're gaining the most traction, and then really leaning into that one platform, whether it's YouTube, Instagram, Tiktok, and then also getting direct feedback from the listeners too. So creating a hub of your choosing, I would recommend X, depending on your content, if it's business content, LinkedIn, if it's you know, whatever, but a place where you go, Hey, listeners, if you want to interact with me directly, follow me here. This is the podcast page. This is my voice. This is where I post. I will answer your questions directly, and then you see what kind of feedback you get from there and where your listeners tend to congregate. And then focus in on that platform.

Speaker 2  9:42  
I have a hot take, Mr. Chairman, will you recognize me? You already did? Okay, all right, if you all indulge me for a minute, people, we're talking about two things. We're talking about promoting podcasts on social media, and we're talking about using video to do so. And my question. Is, is it necessarily synonymous? Yes, promoting. We learn about Ed Jag, as you pointed out, we learn about podcasts through social media. I belong to a Facebook group called binge or cringe. It's a great group. It's fun. It's basically, what are you watching on TV and what should I watch? And I get a lot of ideas on what to watch TV there, but I don't need to see a video on that post, I might need to just see a little description so you can see where I'm going with this. Do we necessarily need the video clips to promote on social media? Will a clip necessarily? If you get tons of views on a clip, it doesn't necessarily mean people are going to invest time in your podcast. And may I remind everyone that in 1981 there was a network called MTV, which launched, some of you are old enough to remember it. And so what happened? It was a huge hit. Right away, Michael Jackson turned into a vampire and Billy squire dancing his pajamas on a bed, you know. But eventually, within a number of years, people figured out that the tail was wagging the dog and the music industry was putting too much effort into the video side of music and not the other. So what happened? Eventually, the channel that showed music videos stopped choosing music videos. The mania over making video podcasts, I think it might get tempered and pulled back, because the magic of a podcast is a conversation, whether it's talking heads or simply audio. So that's

Matt Cundill  11:28  
a great take. So just that, it's just, I think that the focus on video to make all that short form content is detracting from creating quality audio.

Speaker 2  11:40  
I agree. If you've got a great podcast, you don't necessarily have to make those short videos to promote it, get a nice, tight description and put it on social media somewhere where you're likely to find your audience, of people that are interested in trying a new podcast. There's a

Speaker 1  11:54  
funny little wrinkle in there, too, David, of like, you'll see this bleed into certain types of podcast guests. I don't want to name anybody by name, but if you, if you watch these people on video podcast, think, think big kind of business, influencer type people, people that are like, Here's how you make a lot of money. Here's how you grow your big business. If you listen to them on long form podcasts, everything that they're saying is clearly scripted to become a short short so, so they'll, they'll be asked a question, and they'll go, you know, there's this crazy book that was written that I read about this one guy, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, and they'll tell the whole story within 90 seconds ago, oh, he's just shooting for he's just the kids call it clip farming. He's clip farming. He's trying to everything that he says needs to be clipable. And if your long form, 90 minute podcast, your entire guest is focused on clip farming, can you really have a long, deep, authentic conversation that's beneficial to the listener?

Speaker 2  12:50  
Yeah, it's the it's the tail wagging the dog. You're trying to create the highlight reel before you created the actual, you know, win or whatever. I wonder

Jon Gay  12:59  
if we I wonder if we can split the baby here, because I hear what you're saying, Dave, and I think it's a really good point that you raise, because you don't want people focusing on the non podcasty stuff have the conversation. The reason, the reason I'm so gung ho on video is just because you want to feed the algorithm, and Facebook and everybody are going to favor videos in the algorithm. But I think maybe there's a way to split the difference here, where we focus on the content, and then just if you focus on the content, you'll naturally get some good clips that you can pull for video, as opposed to exactly what Johnny's saying in the clip farming of I bet this 92nd start, the question had nothing to do with it, but I'm gonna tell this 92nd circuit

Speaker 2  13:37  
can be a great clip. Well, I mean, you want your podcast to have 92nd great moments. You want it to have great stories, of course. And you're talking this is coming from someone who invested some money to put cameras in their studios at pod 617, dot com. And so I try to encourage all my podcasters to be on YouTube. Yes, it's become easy enough to shoot on video, whether you're doing it remotely or doing it in person. And I think it probably should be that way on YouTube. When people find you on YouTube, and we know you're where people are finding podcasts on YouTube, why not have moving video? It's just the you know, there are tools. There are AI tools that will make clips. I find none of them are perfect. And so, I mean, if you want to do the clips, God bless you. I just don't. I just think the Tiktok world is interested in Tiktok videos, and those are short and those are punchy, and it seems like we're trying to fit a round peg into a square hole, when we're saying, well, if they watch this great Tiktok clip, then they're gonna go listen to my, you know, 55 minute podcast episode. Maybe that's too big a leap, I don't know.

Speaker 1  14:48  
Well, something we talk about all the time too, Dave, is maybe the goal isn't necessarily to push people into the podcast, and maybe that's a different form of marketing, which you can talk about. But maybe the goal is, i. Want to build up my Instagram page. I want to build up my Tiktok page. I'm going to get a larger following there. And I'm still creating content. I'm creating the podcast, but I'm also creating content for this social media page, and I'm developing a following there.

Speaker 2  15:14  
Well, that's, that's a good point. If you, you know, let's say you're a criminal lawyer who's got a lot of hot take on on whatever big crime story or case or trial is going on, and, you know, you want to build your brand. Yeah, it's kind of like, of course, why not do both? Why not have, you know, your 92nd hot take over here and then your long form discussion over here? And they work together. And there's definitely another one with that,

Speaker 1  15:38  
and there's also the ability to put calls to action within these shorts too. I think people think that, you know, I just has to be the video. One of my clients actually just, we just recently started adding a custom logo at the end so the whole clip will play. The logo pops up at the end with a big Subscribe ticker too. So they go, Oh, I clearly watched this video all the way to the end. It's something interesting to me. What's one more second to tap? Get to the profile page, subscribe now that I've been prompted to do so.

Matt Cundill  16:10  
Has anybody taken a look to see how long a clip can be? Because I put some in that are one minute.

Speaker 1  16:18  
It's pretty platform dependent, but the general rule is three minutes. But again, you have to think about who's watching reels. It's not necessarily someone who's going to be watching for three minutes. So my best advice and best practices are 90 seconds max, and it's got to be and this is where editing comes in. You may not find in with even within this podcast, 90 seconds of a really great short but if you stretch that out over to three minutes, we can cut that down to the best 90 seconds, fast cuts, short sentences only the most powerful, hardest hitting information or whatever, in those 90 seconds. And that's what's being posted. And you want that by Friday on your desk. I was thinking, ideally earlier, okay, tonight, you know, I always say that

Speaker 3  17:06  
you're actually late. You're actually, this is actually you're turning it in late, no matter what time you do it.

Jon Gay  17:10  
You know, you in the I always tell clients in a podcast, a 30 minute podcast, you've got 30 seconds to get my attention. The 30 minute podcast. Give me a reason the first 30 Seconds to listen to that next 30 minutes. I would scale that down to a clip from what Johnny's saying. If you got a 92nd clip, you got to give me something good in that first five seconds, or the scroll keeps going.

Matt Cundill  17:30  
Can we talk about X for a second? Because I think Catherine, Johnny and myself are all on x a fair amount, but we've noticed changes in the last year. So, Johnny, is it more or less, in terms of engagement for you on X in the last year,

Speaker 1  17:45  
way less, way less, and that, and that also contributes to me not posting as much. Again, I think the consistency thing, it would be interesting to ask someone who's been posting every day for like, a year, what they've been seeing. The general sentiment that I'm seeing from other people that talk about it is that it's way down and

Speaker 3  18:02  
Catherine, well, as I tried to illustrate in my my read dramatic reenactment, it feels like just yelling into the void as soon as soon as I paid for Twitter, it's like it went off a cliff. I was it would, I really was talking to myself. And I do think that. I do think that podcast Twitter is gone. They're really, I cannot find, I struggle to find podcast Twitter. I, in fact, I even remember at one point I turned on notifications for each of you so that it would be supportive of my podcast Super Friends, and immediately I saw no tweets from you ever. It was really, I saw nothing from anybody. I can't find the sort of the bigger Twitter podcast conversations, you know, I started reading things we're saying, people are saying, well, you know, find tweets that are doing well and then engage in the conversation in the replies. Didn't matter if that wasn't happening, nothing seemed to be doing it. So it really is a place where I scan for ideas, really not as much even as I have to deliberately look for stuff, for podcasting make it it's hard to find it. And I look at, look through for other ideas. I look through for other things that I'm interested in.

Matt Cundill  19:18  
Similar experience here. Jag, David, are you guys still messing around on Twitter at all?

Jon Gay  19:26  
Very rare. I'm on it, but I'm not really active. Yeah.

Matt Cundill  19:30  
So that dovetails to blue sky because it was in November of 2024 when there was some form of Exodus, and blue sky was supposed to be the new thing is, anybody got any blue sky experience or stories to share?

Jon Gay  19:44  
I think Matt showed me how to create my make my website, my username, and then I haven't used it since

Speaker 3  19:51  
I limit the amount of crazy in my life, so I'm sticking to Twitter.

Speaker 1  19:55  
Okay, you, I mean, you've, David, are you on blue? Scottle, no. Not. Okay. Jack, so you, Matt, are you on it? Yep, okay, have you? Is there a conversation outside of politics on blue sky?

Jon Gay  20:07  
I haven't been on it lately to see, and I know that was kind of the genesis of it. Is that Twitter went right? So these other things went left, and yeah, and Eileen left, and I got on, I got on blue sky, and I got on threads, which I know Matt wants to talk about later, and yeah, and

Matt Cundill  20:25  
Twitter's No, I can't find, I can't get a foothold on on on blue sky. I can't figure out what the conversation is supposed to be about in it. You know, I went in and followed who I thought I should follow. It's not a lot of interesting talk going on there, if any, I'll tell you what I do, and maybe I'm ruining the algorithm by doing this. But I post my Wordle there once a day to with Donna Halper, who's a professor of Media at former professor of Media, I think, at Wellesley, but also well known for being the music director at WMS in Cleveland, who first put rush on the turntable in 1974 and has been a friend of that band ever since. But I mean, she plays, and then I put my, I post my Wordle score there, so it's, I mean, blue sky is a is as exciting as my Wordle score.

Jon Gay  21:17  
So here's my litmus test for these platforms. When I'm watching football on Sunday and I hear of somebody having a gruesome injury, and I want to see it, because it what? Because somebody's ankle bone is sticking out of their leg, and I missed it, and the TV won't show the replay. It's on Twitter. I can't find it anywhere

Unknown Speaker  21:34  
else, you sick bastard.

Speaker 1  21:36  
Hot take? Well, not really a hot take, but just, I think probably right now, the best general platform is LinkedIn, and that may just be because a lot of the content that I work on is business focused. All of my clients see really great engagement with with LinkedIn. And I Matt, if you want, I'm happy to go through an exact week of posting and what that entails.

Matt Cundill  22:03  
We'll give you, we will give you, like a whole show to do that. There you go. Okay, so I love this is fantastic. Thank you.

Speaker 1  22:10  
Here is a general what a general week looks like. Let's say that we release an episode on Wednesday, yeah, Monday, a medium sized clip is being posted to LinkedIn and to x. So I'm just going to focus on what we put on LinkedIn, a medium sized clip that's three to 10 minutes. So think of like a 90 minute podcast. There's three to 10 minutes of a question, story, answer that's pretty good and relevant to the general vibe of that episode, or the overarching, tart topic. We're writing some really nice copy for that. That's being posted on Monday. Another one's going out on Tuesday, saying this is coming tomorrow. This is coming all of that's on us. That constant reminder, this is coming tomorrow. This is coming tomorrow.

Speaker 2  22:55  
No within, Johnny, sorry to interrupt you. Yeah, I might have missed this, those two posts, those first two posts that you mentioned, are they video clips? Are they? Yes, always video clips. And okay, and it's always a different video clip that you're talking about.

Speaker 1  23:09  
Yeah, new video clips every time. Doesn't have to be 10 minutes. Ideally, it's in that three to five minute range, just some kind of nugget where they go, Oh, I would like to hear more about this same thing Tuesday, our branding is there. We're not putting any links to any channels there just because of this. I feel like no one's ever confirmed this. But there's just this kind of superstition that if you put a link anywhere that leads to any kind of YouTube channel, it takes the viewing they want native video that is uploaded on that platform episode comes out, we gotta, we gotta post some links at some point soon as the episode comes out on Wednesday morning. Hey, this episode is up, and it's basically a copy paste of the show notes that explains who the guest is, bullet points of what's discussed in the episode. Here is the episode on YouTube. Here's the episode on Spotify, and here's the episode on Apple podcasts. The problem that makes it harder with that is we can sit. We can schedule all of these posts out way in advance, so I don't have to worry about it, except for when we're posting links to each episode, because Spotify and Apple don't generate links to your episode until that episode is actually live.

Jon Gay  24:16  
You're most often though, Could you, could you put on a web page and link to the website, or to could

Speaker 1  24:22  
link to the website? That's a great idea, too. There's a good hack right there, just link to the website instead. But again, now we're asking. Now we're extending the click journey. We want it to be pretty we want it to be pretty immediate. So Wednesday, the episode is out. No video clips. Just to post about the episode. We've already got two out there. Thursday is going to be a short style post. So that's probably the intro hook, something really short. Just another reminder. Hey, this episode is out Friday LinkedIn. The best, the best performing content that I've seen on LinkedIn with the clients that I work with is the what I. Call the first 15 so LinkedIn has a 15 minute limit on their videos, and we post something on Fridays that say, Hey, this episode with guests so and so came out this week. We had a really great time. Please enjoy the first 15 minutes of the episode here on LinkedIn, or you can watch the full episode here on YouTube, and there's the link. So now we're getting to able to see how posts perform with just native video in there. How posts perform when it's just the links. And within that post about the links, I'm putting the thumbnail, the YouTube thumbnail, on there as well. So there's something to look at as well. So we're seeing how posts perform with only native native video content. How posts perform with no video content, but links, how short content performs, and then how content video content performs with links. And I would be lying if I told you I've calculated all that data together, but when I just look at the posts, they do really well. Like, 400 500 likes, tons of views and impressions and messages from the host saying, like, the 15 minute ones are killing like, let's keep pushing. Let's keep leaning in on that. So that is on LinkedIn. That is like, what a full week of posting will look like. And then within that, we're touching on Instagram. We're touching on X, X, getting the full episode release Instagram, getting the short form content only. And from there you're getting that's a full kind of social media schedule, and you're welcome. You just got that for free as a listener of this podcast, Super Friends.

Matt Cundill  26:31  
So I found with LinkedIn that they do a really good job connecting me with the people who interact with my stuff. So when I make a post about this show or another show, or anything else, I find that it does appear very quickly with the people who have interacted in the past with my stuff. And so I find it's growing all the time. It's positive. I love I love LinkedIn, and I especially love that you shared these, these tips and tricks. And as well doing things in advance, I haven't really spent a lot of time making posts in advance, because I'm like, why would I tell anybody about something that they can't buy right now? But I'm coming around.

Speaker 1  27:10  
When I say posting in advance, I mean scheduling posts. Okay, and what do you

Unknown Speaker  27:15  
schedule Monday and Tuesday is saying

Speaker 1  27:18  
Wednesday, this is coming out. Yeah, a little bit of both.

Speaker 3  27:22  
Yeah. It's like a tease of coming, yeah. The platform coming soon

Speaker 1  27:26  
I'm happiest with is called Social pilot. Social pilot is really great. You can link all of your social media, social media there, and you just, you know, I click create post. I select I want it to go on Instagram. I wanted to go on LinkedIn. Here's the copy. I dragged the video and put it on there. I'm scheduling it for Tuesday at 6am or 7am or whatever time we decide this way it sounds, oh, sorry, great question. I'll look it up

Speaker 3  27:53  
while we Okay, not to sound totally naive here, I didn't, honestly, I did not realize people were posting that much on LinkedIn, where they're doing something daily, that was not my impression at all. So shows you where I am.

Speaker 1  28:08  
There's, there's different tiers. So this is working under the assumption that we have, you know, you're the podcast host. You're handling all of your content distribution, because we're talking to smaller podcasters. 25 bucks a month gets you to, gets you to, gets you to link seven different social media accounts. One user, you can share a login, and then they have something called AI credits. I haven't played with that tool. And then tag so you can tag users within your post. So it's like, you know if Matt you were using and you wanted to tag me, you just do at Johnny Peterson, my LinkedIn profile pops up. I select that and it's going to tag me in that post as well.

Speaker 3  28:47  
Did you mean to say your government name? Because we know you as Johnny podcasts?

Speaker 1  28:51  
Oh yeah, I shouldn't have said that, Matt. Let's erase that from the we can do that as a joke. I don't care.

Unknown Speaker  28:58  
We're just joking. We're yoking. But

Speaker 1  29:00  
that goes That's the base one is 25 and then obviously, you know, you get more users. You can link more social media accounts. And then the next step up is 42 bucks a month. The next one is 85 bucks a month. And then the ultimate is 170

Matt Cundill  29:13  
bucks a month. David, what is the name of your podcast?

Speaker 2  29:17  
Great, glad you asked. Oops, my audio isn't hooked up. It's called past, past 10s, the top 10 Time Machine, time machine.

Matt Cundill  29:28  
So the question I want to ask about that is, if you did, if you did an episode and about, you know, involving, say, an artist, would you tag that artist and be able to get their attention on social media and

Unknown Speaker  29:41  
their attorneys get their attorneys after,

Speaker 2  29:46  
well, no, I mean, yeah. I mean, we've, we've done that, or just get no, no. I mean, the by

Matt Cundill  29:53  
the way, I'm full, full disclosure. I've got a client in Toronto who has started a music podcast that. Is definitely no threat to yours by any stretch of the imagination. But they said that they did ask these questions about, you know, about using social media, and perhaps, you know, tagging artists and who, who do you involve? And how would you go about marketing a a podcast?

Speaker 2  30:14  
Always, it always is worth it, because, you know, you can easy to tag people on x. Of course, we post a lot on Facebook, and it's pretty easy just to find the, you know, find either the group for, you know, if we're talking about Maroon Five, to prove I'm a loser, Maroon Five, you know, you could tag maroon five's fan club. You know, I love Maroon Five. Maroon Five is the best. I mean, there are tons of these groups, and we do, we do tend to promote our podcast that way on Facebook, and we do a lot of stuff about the music of the 70s and 80s. So this is one tip I'd offer that's, I mean, it's pretty simple, it's pretty intuitive, but find the groups. You know, find you can find Reddit threads, you can find Facebook groups. You might even be able to find LinkedIn groups. I mean, for an entertainment course like this, it's probably going to be, you know, Facebook and, and maybe Instagram, but, and then, yeah, I mean, it's, it's, it doesn't necessarily turn to gold, but it's one of those where you just just keep firing and everything does a little bit so Reddit, some Hollywood yellow, yeah. Yeah, but we are in a fight with Facebook over copyright issues. I mean, sorry, we're in a fight with Spotify Facebook. You're cool, as far as I know, which is ironic because I don't know if I know, Matt, you asked me about playing clips on a music podcast. It's a topic for another day, I realize. But the irony is that music podcasts promote music we're promoting for you. Come on. Yeah. Are you listening Jay Z and Eminem and whatever?

Matt Cundill  31:47  
Do you want to talk about podcast threads? Does anybody? Is anybody? Is anybody on threads?

Jon Gay  31:54  
I'm not. I get sent there from Facebook all the time that I never actually open threads.

Speaker 2  32:01  
Then I get frustrated when I click on mistake, yeah, yes,

Matt Cundill  32:05  
I'm actually enjoying podcast threads because I'm I'm enjoying it. I'm not enjoying it. I'll tell you why, because it knows that I like podcasting. So I'm getting pushed to people who are using some they're putting up basic posts such as, What, Mike Sinai is, what? Yeah, some really top line stuff. And of course, I'm a sucker, right? And I'm I'm biting on all this stuff,

Unknown Speaker  32:27  
and I'm saying, but Lou Yeti, here's a link. Blue.

Matt Cundill  32:30  
Yeti, that's the one. Here's a snowball for you. But at least the I mean, you're wondering where the conversation went. I'm having a conversation, and of course, it's quite a little confrontational, but I'm still having a conversation, a conversation, and it's and I am connecting the people in that particular space. So I would sort of say, I guess that's where the conversation went to. It seemed to have left Twitter and gone there,

Speaker 2  32:55  
but that's, I don't know if this is a related question or not, but you're in a lot of groups or threads pertaining to podcasts. Has anyone had success promoting podcasts on podcast groups? If that makes sense, you know, there are, I mean, all kinds of groups on Jay I know you're a few on Facebook, you know. And they run the gamut from useless to, you know, if you find a group that says, post your podcast, I find it's frustratingly useless, because just everyone's just posting, yeah, no one's going there to find podcasts. So yeah, has anyone had success with those sort of

Unknown Speaker  33:33  
things? No, I might be too young. I don't use Facebook.

Speaker 2  33:35  
Well, it doesn't have to be Facebook. I mean, you know, well, I think the

Speaker 1  33:39  
problem with podcast groups like that, whether it's Facebook or not, is like, exactly like you said, it's people that host podcasts that are looking to either improve their podcast now. So now maybe the direction you want to take it in is sort of a general interest group that's not necessarily quote, unquote podcast related. So if your podcast is about music, maybe there's a general music interest group, 80s music interest group that you're able to promote it there, correct? Yeah. I mean,

Speaker 3  34:06  
I think, as everybody knows, I like to have a little bit of a philosophical bend. I think Johnny, what you were the just you laid out this beautiful scheduling for LinkedIn. I and I believe what you're saying about the potential. And this is getting, you know, the 15 minutes is getting crushing it on Fridays, and it just, it seems so logical. And I don't use LinkedIn, really. I mean, I rarely use LinkedIn. I use it occasionally. And as I mentioned a moment ago, I honestly did not know people are doing, like, daily posts, you know, they would be doing that many LinkedIn posts in a something every single day that just I was totally, I'm totally unaware of that, because I'm just not there. And I think that one of the things we're sort of dancing around is there's a lot the core love of podcasting is the audience. Video product, we're finding more and more that to be successful in what we want to do, we have to go into these realms that we're not necessarily. Why we started in love with this is not our core passion, and I think that there's a lot of acceptance that kind of has to go along with that. With podcasting. I think that the slow take to video is absolutely symptomatic of that exact situation. People did not want to do video, but all the people who are podcasting and putting it on YouTube and doing the video and making a concerted effort for it, they're fine, you know, it's they, they those people got ahead of the people who are just holding on to audio. And I think that there's a little bit of that here too, where we're having to do clips, we're having to do all these other pieces that aren't necessarily that core, that the thing isn't the thing as I as I like to say it, it's the core thing that we're after is having to be supported on all of these other things that are pushing us out of our love or area of genius. Let's say I

Matt Cundill  36:03  
just put up on the screen, by the way, that's my threads account. But threads has now say, if you do have a podcast, you can add it to your profile. So I've chosen the apple podcast one for the sound op podcast that can appear there. So if you're on threads, you can add your podcast to your profile. I think that's a good positive step in some sort of direction.

Speaker 1  36:24  
Yeah, because Jack, you and I have talked about this on my long graveyarded podcast, but, you know, ideally in the future, like there, and I think X was trying to do this, but you're there's a social platform where all of your everything is there, your all of your videos, your podcast, your writing, your photo uploads, everything about you. The person is can is contained here, and it's very easy to navigate to each one of those things that you're doing. So you've got your text posts that you post directly there, and another tab is, here's your podcast. You can listen to any of the episodes within there. Then here's all of your youtube content. Here's all of your sub stack, long form writing, and everything is contained here.

Jon Gay  37:09  
I believe the word you're looking for, Johnny is a website, but that's but you could make a website and do exactly that. I know this thing's called, but

Speaker 1  37:19  
the problem is, the problem is, is I want to see what everybody else is doing. Correct? I don't want to just go to Jag's website and see his stuff. That's great when I want to see Jack stuff. But I also want to swipe away and see everybody see my feed.

Jon Gay  37:33  
This is a matter of everybody trying to be all things to all people too. So how's that going to shake out? Yeah, yeah.

Matt Cundill  37:39  
I think a lot of people are really enamored with social media, and, you know, interested in this particular show and what we have to offer. And I think it's because social media is largely free. We look at it as free marketing and free promotion. But the question I would probably throw out to everybody, and I think this might be rhetorical, but, but please feel free to add, is that, how much time are we spending on social media, you know, chasing algorithms and doing this when we could probably set aside a few $100 to market your podcast in a paid way that might be more beneficial, that will get in front of the people that it needs to get in front of, instead of, you know, chasing the algorithm and, you know, us trying to sort of figure out

Speaker 1  38:22  
the magic formula and is it even on social media, like my wife mentions this all the time. She works in what's called programmatic advertising, which is not social media marketing. It's website banner ads. It is television smart display ads, website ads, ads that pop up on your phone that are based on, you know, your interests, what you're looking at, where you've gone, physically, where your device is, you know, geo located, all of that stuff. I don't see any podcast advertising in that lane. Is that a completely untapped market, because everyone's promoting everything on social media. It's not just podcast, it's my clothing brand, it's my YouTube channel, it's my only fans, it's everything I

Matt Cundill  39:05  
would say that that's that's out there, but it's being done internally. Johnny so I heart is going to promote I heart podcast that way. Yeah, and Spotify is going to promote the podcast that they're interested to in that way. I it is possible to go to an ad agency and to and to make a buy in that realm. However, if podcasters are listening to that, rather than putting a spend into that area, I think this is where the advice of, you know, finding a podcast that is much like you know, yours. So if you have a music podcast, say, in Toronto, you might want to check out the top 10 time machine and perhaps do a promo swap to you know, to grow the podcast audience,

Speaker 3  39:43  
I told you guys that suddenly on whenever I was listening to a podcast on YouTube, meaning I'm playing the video version. I'm listening in the background, suddenly I'm getting all these ads that are an entire podcast, a 50 minute podcast episode. As an ad on YouTube, like they are inserting their podcasts into other podcasts, like forcing it in there. And I was like, you know, I wonder what the results are going to be. But it was just sort of like, okay, YouTube knows I am a podcast consumer, so they're giving me these massive ads of podcasts.

Speaker 2  40:18  
That's the parallel to the Netflix thing, where Netflix is like, do you want me to play the next episode of this? Are you still watching? Are you still watching? I'm gonna play this episode Anyways, here you go. Like, you know, sometimes there's

Speaker 1  40:33  
the three second countdown. It doesn't matter what you're doing. You are going to be the half to be the one that turns this off,

Speaker 2  40:39  
right and forcing your hand. That seems to be why you're talking about. Like, if you you might not realize this is an ad and, oh, what is this playing on my YouTube screen? Oh, yeah. And, you know, one out of 200 people will probably be like, Hey, this is

Matt Cundill  40:53  
pretty much all the way through. Yeah, that's right.

Speaker 1  40:56  
Well, that's deliberate, like, or is that just a lack of understanding how Google Ads works.

Speaker 3  41:03  
Well, I don't that's Johnny interesting point, because I was thinking, huh? I wonder, at what point does this count on the YouTube counter? Yeah, so that then they're like, oh, Oprah's new podcast had, you know, 1.4 million views of this new episode, you know, or whatever. That's a literal

Jon Gay  41:21  
counts as a view. I believe that's right. Yeah.

Matt Cundill  41:25  
Personal question for how you run your businesses, How involved are you with social media, with your clients? Do you make the social media assets for them, or do you just advise on a marketing strategy?

Speaker 1  41:38  
I provide them, I don't post I get asked all the time if I will post it for them, and I that's like, that's like, too far. That's like crawling, but they get over a bed of nails. For me, I cannot fathom waking up and posting manually all your only fans. Now the only fans is coming, yes. So, yes, so yes, creating the assets for them and again, like as you run your business, that's just more revenue for you, the business owner, because you've already produced the podcast episode. How hard is it to chop up the first 15 minutes and give that to them? How hard is it to learn how to make shorts not crazy, like some of these Tiktok like crazy. Tiktokers are able to do but set, but usable content. You know what the good content sounds like. You've already put the episode together again. It's, it's, it is leaving money on the table from a from a podcast producer's business standpoint.

Jon Gay  42:38  
I'll chime in here. So I when I do have my high end, my high end packages, you get, you get one video short with your whole thing that I will provide the I'll create the asset, and I'll give it to you. I will put it on YouTube, because I'm already uploading your video to YouTube. But in terms of the other social I don't, I have one particular client who said, you know, we want to really up our Instagram game. Can we send you a Word doc? And can you pull these, I don't know, 5060, clips from the last two seasons of episodes. And I said, Yes, for $50 a clip, yeah, when they say yes, they did about money on the table, Johnny. I said, you know, I'm happy you get, you know, the first hits free but, and I applaud them for wanting to up their Instagram game, because they want to get this many clips on there. And I'm like, I'll do as many as you want me to do, you know, and the meters running as a business owner, how

Speaker 1  43:35  
involved like, walk us through what a typical short for you looks like,

Jon Gay  43:39  
using Riverside. So I So, when I so? So when I produce a show in Riverside, in the full video, I edited, I send it out for a transcription, and then I get the transcription. And so in this case, I am sending the transcripts to the client. And you know, if they we can, sometimes I'll pick it, sometimes they will. But for this many, for a project of this magnitude, I'm gonna say, here are the transcripts. You know, to watch the video, start, pause, rewind, fast forward, but scan the transcript. Tell me which clips you want me to grab, and then I'll cut the fluff out of it to your point earlier, Johnny and couple jump cuts here and there, because it's that fast, you know, short style. And I'll go into Riverside. I'll create the clip manually. In Riverside, I'll add the captions. I'll edit the captions, export it. Here's your MP four file done all in Riverside, if you're watching Great, yeah, and

Unknown Speaker  44:43  
thanks, Coco, yes,

Jon Gay  44:45  
not using Coco, using old school Riverside. I'm not telling you. Give me a clip because I, because I have to be fair, I haven't messed around with it, so I can't speak to its quality. But I'm a control freak, and I want to have it exactly the way I.

Matt Cundill  45:00  
Once and for those who need recollection, Kendall from Riverside was a guest on the show. We talked about Coco, which is their internal name for the new AI creation tool. Can I get that right?

Jon Gay  45:12  
CO creator, Coco? Thank you.

Speaker 1  45:15  
Let's say you're not using a riverside account, but you still want to make shorts. So a couple other options you can use. The one that I mentioned earlier, that I was going to bash publicly, is here. Now it's called Opus clips. They were great for like, a month, and then what was nice about them is you just upload the full episode, and it will use AI to create all these clips for you. However, it seems to have regressed in its intelligence, and it just the clips that came out the last few times I've used it. I'm like, I can't use any of these, let alone re edit them to fix them, like it's not the content you just chose is not even good. So Opus, if you're watching, please step at the f up. A great manual option is v.io v, e, e, d.io, you just upload the clip that you want to use. You change the orientation to be short form. You manually crop it. You click add subtitles. The subtitles pop up. You can change where they pop in, what they look like, the font. You can add stuff that comes in. And now it's a really very user friendly short creation tool. So I use that almost daily. So great question.

Jon Gay  46:25  
Yes, there is a cost, which I'm pulling out right now

Speaker 3  46:29  
sidebar, as you're looking that up is, is the that phenomenon that you were describing is that called version control, where you're like, Ah, this AI is clicking along, amazing. Everything is going great, and then it updates to a new version, and then it's like, I don't know what I'm doing. Help me figure out is that called, is that phenomenon called version control?

Matt Cundill  46:51  
I'm not sure it's called descript.

Speaker 3  46:55  
Shots fired. I was gonna give them a nice plug, because I'm having a great success so far with the with getting clips on the it's Underlord is picking up some pithy the kind of clips that I would want anyway, the things I had in mind. And it's, it's that has become very, very easy to get some clips out of descript, in my experience,

Matt Cundill  47:16  
okay, Jerry, very quickly. Catherine, can you walk through how you do that? Because I know a lot of people who watch this are using descript, including myself, and I have not used Underlord like this yet. Okay, well,

Speaker 3  47:27  
it's, I mean, they have now pre loaded it with a prompt for Underlord that you just click and it says, produce x number of social media clips from this episode. What I do is I add, because I'm thinking of one client in particular that posts on LinkedIn. So I said optimized for LinkedIn, and in fact, they will. The Underlord will give me options of things that seem very to the to Johnny's original point, the businessy community, the kinds of clips that we'll do with there. I've always been limiting them to a minute, but now I have the go ahead to go a little bit longer, maybe find some of those other other clips. And Underlord will go and pick it, open it up within the project, in a separate file, so that you can manipulate it there. You can do a different layout. You can do you can add captions. You can add a waveform. You could add different elements to make it a little bit more you know, add the branding, any add a logo. All of those things are pretty easy. And you manipulate it exactly how, how you do any other clip in, in or you you do the exact same thing and descript the way you do any of the other editing, and it has it in a perfect clip, and it can export it right away.

Speaker 1  48:39  
Love it. So that would bypass Opus altogether, because if you're already doing a lot of other stuff within descript, you might as well use it for making clips.

Speaker 3  48:47  
Sorry, as I mentioned, it does have captions. It does have like, text elements. It does have other shapes and whatever you can add, and waveforms.

Jon Gay  48:59  
There are a dozen AI ways to pull video clips out of a video podcast. I had a client that wanted to send me a list of video clips. I don't know which AI software they used, but they fed the YouTube links into the AI, and the AI started hallucinating. It was when I got the list. It was grab the clip at this timestamp talking about this, not what they're talking about at that timestamp, not even a topic that was discussed in the podcast. I don't know which one it was, but it it was. It screwed the pooch badly.

Speaker 1  49:32  
I feel like we're hitting kind of a lull in AI, because I've just noticed this in the last couple of weeks with chat GPT, I've had a fully structured project. These are your instructions. When I give you this, you give me that, and even that has been messing up a lot, and I say, hey, read your instructions. And it goes, oh, sorry. And then you're right, it's, it's getting it's getting kind of annoying. I'm like, I would take me less time to just do this myself.

Jon Gay  49:56  
Dave, it's

Unknown Speaker  49:58  
AI's hit its teen phase. It's like. Can?

Speaker 2  50:00  
I don't, yeah, I haven't looked into why this is occurring, but I'm finding the exact same thing at chat GPT, more than ever. I need to be careful, like it'll I'll say, I'll be producing a podcast about hockey, and to prep for a guest, I'll say, give me 15 interesting, odd things that happened in hockey games. And I look at it, and it'll say, like, and you know, yaram Jaeger once took a break and ate a hot dog on the bench. And I'll say, chat GPT. Are you sure that this Yammer Yager thing happened? And it'll say, oh, good catch. You're right. That actually never happened, although I pray. Well, where did you get that from? And it'll say there's no verified report about Yarmouth eating a hot dog on the back. And so I have no idea. And so I scream at it, because I have the I pay for the premium service, or at least whatever the paid version of I say I'm paying for this. Why are you getting it wrong? I'm so sorry. Dave, blah blah, blah, blah, blah, can't

Unknown Speaker  51:02  
do that. Don't turn me off. Dave,

Speaker 2  51:06  
acting highly irregular. Dave, yeah, so it's, it's very frustrating. I try to use it now for things that where you don't need to, don't need the facts to be correct, like if you're punching in data asking, organize this into a chart, it's still good for that

Jon Gay  51:21  
kind of tinfoil hat time I you, I've been seeing about how much computing power AI takes, and we don't think anything I'm telling you about chat GPT, but how much it really takes at these farms and everything. My Custom GPT, when I upload a transcript, it gives me YouTube and Spotify chapter mark or timestamps. It started rounding it to the minute, instead of giving me minute seconds, instead of saying at 5626 this happens. It's 56 minutes this. 58 minutes this. So I had to specifically, you know, reprimand the teenager to your point, Catherine, and say, Please give me timestamps to the exact second. And please always give me time Sam to the exact second whenever I run this. GPT, okay, no problem. I'll do that for you. You're grounded chat.

Speaker 1  52:08  
GPT, yeah, a couple workarounds for that. Jack. Are you creating projects? Are you just doing chats?

Jon Gay  52:15  
I have one GPT that I open and I it's a it's a new chat every time I gotta think, Okay,

Speaker 1  52:20  
so with pro with projects, you can set instructions in a separate area. So it's like, these are the instructions that will follow. So what I've done is I've created a a chat GPT project that is exclusively I tell it what I want another project to do. Give me instructions for that it needs to do, X, Y and Z, be very explicit about what I need and what it needs to do. So for example, one of them is For show notes. So it needs to write show notes. And one of the problems I was running into was it would hallucinate and just kind of make things up, and it's like, oh, well, I found this on the internet about this person, so I just assumed it was part of the podcast. I go, okay, rule around that that's now added into the project instructions. The only thing you're referencing in any given scenario when you and I are working together is the transcript that I have just provided you. That's the only thing you can look at. That's your only reference. That's the That's all you're working with. And they go, Oh, okay,

Speaker 3  53:16  
okay, jag, you're now you're I'm getting a paranoid. I honestly, I have not. I don't, like, go through and check every timestamp that

Speaker 1  53:26  
nobody does that's when you're using AI. You just like, you're just assuming it's correct, and it's easy, yeah, just not have to check.

Jon Gay  53:32  
I only noticed because I was scrolling and I'm like, why are these all? 56 minutes, 24

Unknown Speaker  53:38  
times those in a row. My glasses are killing it. What a streak.

Speaker 3  53:42  
One time, a glitchy Underlord session gave me the time codes out of Chronicle, not in chronological order. And I was like, Okay, we're not going to do that at all.

Speaker 2  53:55  
Conversation. I've had that with Underlord, yeah. Yeah, the show notes. I mean, it's they're still useful for the show notes, I find, and let's, let's be honest that there's a lot of room for error with the show notes. Has anyone gotten an angry email from a listener saying this wasn't, just wasn't where I said I'm I don't know about you guys when I, when I, I still do them, and they're still useful. But when I listen to a podcast, now, if I'm looking for a topic in the in the in the annotated show notes, I know that it's not always going to be accurate, and I think a lot of that has to do with dynamic audio insertion, screwing with the time codes. But, you know, it's nice to provide, but Catherine, don't sweat it, and you're off by a little bit,

Speaker 3  54:41  
and YouTube likes them. That's the that's the other thing is that YouTube likes them, so we give them to

Matt Cundill  54:47  
YouTube, Apple and Spotify are doing their own right now. So you'll have to do the override if you would like to use your own for Apple, and I think Spotify as well. Yeah. Okay. Any final. Words here before we hit the top of the hour, hard stop and goodbye and that sort

Speaker 2  55:06  
of thing. Remember MTV? Remember what happened

Speaker 3  55:09  
everybody when I was a girl, music MTV played music videos, not these reality shows. When I was

Unknown Speaker  55:16  
a kid, MTV played Jersey Shore. There were no music videos.

Matt Cundill  55:19  
All right, we'll say goodbye. We'll head around. We'll go counterclockwise this time from below me. Catherine, thank

Speaker 3  55:29  
you so much, everybody. This is Catherine. Oh, signing off in Baton Rouge, Louisiana.

Speaker 2  55:34  
David, yes, Boston. Podcast Network, pod 617, dot com and pod, we trust. Thank you.

Jon Gay  55:39  
John Gay, jag podcast productions. Jag podcast productions.com,

Speaker 1  55:44  
Johnny podcast. If you like the podcast Super Friends, please subscribe to the show on YouTube. Follow on Apple podcast, or Spotify, or however you listen to your podcasts.

Matt Cundill  55:55  
Matt Cundill, at Matt Cundill with the first podcast Super Friends, hailing from the Laurentians in Quebec, see ya.

Tara Sands  56:03  
Thanks for watching the podcast. Super Friends for more super friend wisdom. Check out the show at sound off. Dot network.