March 6, 2023

The Podcast Pyramid To Success

Johnny introduces the Podcast Pyramid to Success, and the friends mull over the Infinite Dial Research, and whether You Tube's next attempt at involving themselves with podcasting is gonna be a thing.

They also start talking about Dynamic Ad insertion and whether it is good or bad, and then realize they should do a full episode on it.

If you want to watch us live, be sure to follow us in these places and you'll get a notification.

This episode was recorded live. You can view the original recording here.

Check out more from the Superfriends below:

Johnny - Straight Up Podcasts

David - Boston Podcast Network

Jon - JAG In Detroit Podcasts

Catherine - Branch Out Programs

Matt- The Soundoff Podcast Network



Voiceover 00:00:01
Welcome to the podcast, Superfriends. Five podcast producers from across North America get together to discuss podcasting.

Matt Cundill 00:00:13
It's another edition of the Podcast Superfriends, and we are live in many, many time zones today, but we'll bring everyone in here and say hello. In fact, we're going. There's even more people coming. You're not even going to believe this because he's late. We don't even know where he came from. But now we're all here.

David Yas 00:00:33
He lives here.

Johnny Podcasts 00:00:34
He does.

Jon Gay 00:00:35
Hi, everybody. I apologize for my lack of voice. I'm just back from an alumni weekend in Syracuse, yelling in a college bar for three straight nights, but I would not miss this for the world.

Matt Cundill 00:00:45
Well, he joins us 10 seconds into the show, and it's great to see you Jag. I'm Matt Cundill. I am the owner of the Sound Off Media Company. Coming to you from Malga, Spain.

David Yas 00:00:56
Bueno. Bueno.

Matt Cundill 00:00:58
Johnny podcast has turned into a test pattern.

Catherine O'Brien 00:01:01
I love it. Yeah.

Johnny Podcasts 00:01:02
I love this new camera.

Catherine O'Brien 00:01:04
All right, while Johnny is figuring that out, I'm Catherine O'Brien, admiring these beautiful colors on the test screen. And I'm here in Baton Rouge, Louisiana, and my company is branch out programs.

Johnny Podcasts 00:01:17
I'm Johnny Podcast coming from Fort Worth, Texas, and I'm testing out a DSLR camera running into a cam link, so hopefully it gets a better video. So if it does cut out, that's the first time I've ever seen it do that. So ignore me. And if you're listening on audio, you have no clue what I'm talking about.

David Yas 00:01:36
I'm David Jazz in Bostonpod. Six one seven. The Boston Podcast Network.

Jon Gay 00:01:40
I'm John Gay from JAG and Detroit Podcasts, where we create and produce podcasts for local businesses and national businesses and international businesses and nonprofits.

Matt Cundill 00:01:49
Excellent. And your voice is a little bit raspy. Where were you?

Jon Gay 00:01:53
So I was at the annual alumni banquet for Wjpz Syracuse, which is the station that is run exclusively by Syracuse University students. We celebrated 50 years on the air, had about 200 people in Syracuse, New York, and that tells you dedication going to Syracuse, New York, in the first week in March in a snowstorm. But we had a wonderful time, and it was an incredible event.

Matt Cundill 00:02:16
It's been a big month for you, too, Jag. Can you give the podcast a plug as well?

Jon Gay 00:02:20
Yeah, sure. So I was actually recognized for a podcast that I help put together called WJPZ at 50, where we did. We're still actually cranking out episodes. Now it's a podcast series commemorating the radio station interviewing the alumni of the radio station from the 1970s to the 2020s. It's been a real labor of love, and it's been a lot of fun to connect people and tell everybody's stories. So whatever year you went to Syracuse, you learned about what students in other decades dealt with.

David Yas 00:02:43
Wow. Well, as a great man once said, radio, someone still loves you.

Jon Gay 00:02:50
I can tell you 200 people in Syracuse that still do, so.

Matt Cundill 00:02:55
So we'll start off the show today. We'll let Johnny, who put this out, he gave us a little preview last night about the podcast pyramid, and I love it. I had to title the episode a little bit differently than just calling it the Podcast Pyramid, because then it's going to sound like everyone's going to want to get in on this scheme. So I titled it slightly differently and then realized, well, isn't that what a pyramid scheme is supposed to be, is to lead you to some form of success? But I'll let Johnny explain the podcast pyramid that he's created.

Johnny Podcasts 00:03:24
Matt, I think you read my substance because that was the first line. It said, this ain't a pyramid scheme, but it is a pyramid. So I was just writing the substance post yesterday and I don't know, I've had a lot of conversations with people, talking on Twitter, seeing people talk online about what is kind of the most important thing in podcasting or when they start a podcast. And unfortunately, this is the thing that we all deal with. It always comes down to money. They're like, I want to get into podcast. I want to eventually monetize. I know, I promise you guys, it's not my first it's not my first goal, it's not my first goal, but it's my second goal. It's my third goal, it's my secret goal. And then I tell them, okay, well, have you thought about what do you have any kids? Do you have a camera? Do you have microphones? Do you have headphones? Like, what are you going to talk about? Who are you going to talk about it with? And they go, I don't know. So I was like, okay, I need to just map out in the simplest terms what is the most important and we need to talk about building blocks and put this in sort of just a format that's easier for people to understand. So in a typical pyramid, the base layer is the most important thing. And I thought to myself, okay, what is the most important part of a podcast? And ultimately it's the content. You have to entertain people, you have to educate people. However you're going to approach the podcast, what you're saying to people is the most important thing. That's why they're tuning in. So that is our base layer, is the content. That's why people are tuning in, is to hear you talk about X. So you've discovered what X is. Now we need to talk about production. That's the next layer of the pyramid. Production is your microphone, your setup, the fact that you look and sound good. If you don't have those things combined with your content, you could be saying the greatest thing in the world. People aren't going to want to tune into you because it hurts their ears. And there's honestly just too much content out there that's better quality from a production standpoint that they could choose to tune into. So we start with our content base. We add on top of it a layer of great production, and that's how we find our audience. The audience is the next level of the pyramid. And then within our audience, we need to find out who that audience is, who's actually coming to my podcast to consume my content, where do they hang out online? What are their demographics? What do they like to do? And do they have disposable income? And if so, what level of disposable income do they have? Okay, so we figured out who's listening to our podcast. Now we step into our marketing. We're talking paid advertising, podcast swaps, trailer swaps, short clips, TikTok, Instagram, YouTube, things like that. Because now that we've discovered who's listening to our podcast, we can target where to find more of those people who just haven't discovered our podcasts yet. And now we've built up everything in our pyramid except for the top piece. Now we have sponsorships. We have something that we can present to companies who we know fits our audience profile, sees our content and goes, okay, this is actually good content that we would be comfortable putting our brand name behind. It's a high production quality, and we're going to be getting in front of the eyeballs and ear holes of the people that we want to be our ideal customers. And that's when you put together your pitch deck, where you show them the podcast, look how amazing our content is. You show them the audience look, it's the exact demographic you're looking for in a customer. You present them the terms. You say, look, we're going to give you X. We're going to take X number of dollars for you for a time on X number of episodes, and then you rinse and repeat. And so that's a really long winded answer of saying, I feel like this is a really good structure for how people should approach their podcast, whether they're starting off brand new or they are in the middle of their podcast and they feel like they didn't start off on the right foot.

Matt Cundill 00:06:56
So I want to apologize because I wanted to share the screen of the podcast pyramid and then I realized that Chrome is not going to let me do it because Chrome has decided to do its own thing today. I don't know how that happened, but.

Johnny Podcasts 00:07:07
Whatever, I think I can pull it up on mine.

Matt Cundill 00:07:10
Oh, well, you've got like ten cameras and one is actually a test pattern, so you might be able to share it through that.

Catherine O'Brien 00:07:18
While you're doing that, Johnny, I wanted to pop in and I love what you put out on your substack about the pyramid. And just a little kind of one thing that stood out to me, especially as you were describing it, is the first two layers of the podcast. The foundation, if you will, are things that people who are considering doing a podcast can start working on right now. So those are like pre planning. Now, of course, you can keep bolstering up that foundation the whole time you're doing a podcast, but there's no stopping getting those first two pieces together now.

Johnny Podcasts 00:07:52
Very true. There it is. I tried sharing my screen. I have it shared. Matt, I don't know if you have to allow me to.

Catherine O'Brien 00:08:03
Technically Savvy Group here. No, that is the infrastructure radio track.

Jon Gay 00:08:13

Catherine O'Brien 00:08:14
There we go.

Johnny Podcasts 00:08:16
Okay, so without going through the whole spiel again, you can see for those of you watching, you'll see obviously the bottom layer content and we move up to production, audience marketing dollar signs. So I feel like the majority of people kind of have this flip. They spend all their time worrying about how they're going to market this nonexistent content, that they haven't put any concept into their production. They don't know who their audience is in the hopes that they are going to make money out of it.

Matt Cundill 00:08:44
Yeah. So if you go into some of the Facebook news groups, we know that every second question is, how do I monetize my podcast and how do I market my podcast? And the bottom of the pyramid has not been addressed yet, often. All right.

Catherine O'Brien 00:08:59
Correct. Well done, Johnny.

Johnny Podcasts 00:09:02
Thank you. Should I trademark that?

Matt Cundill 00:09:08
I was wondering if it might have been out of order because that's the kind of thing I go to.

Johnny Podcasts 00:09:13
When we were talking about what topics do we want to bring to the table for the podcast today, I was like, I'm super open to arguing over this and being wrong about this. And I add layers, subtract layers, combine layers, move them around. So if anyone has anything yeah.

Matt Cundill 00:09:30
Yeah the only one I would move around is marketing first and then audience, because I don't know, but at the same time, they may actually go they might be together because of word of mouth. So somebody hears the show and then that becomes your marketing and then you market and your audience will grow from that.

Johnny Podcasts 00:09:49
Yeah. Because on one hand, you create the podcast for an ideal person. You've kind of created this listener in your mind. However, that can change as people start to as your audience starts to develop and you go, oh, I actually thought I was making it for X Group, but it turns out that Y Group is the type of people that are tuning into this podcast. So my thinking there was once you find out who your audience is and who's consistently coming to the show, then you can start to put a little bit of oomph behind marketing more to those types of people rather than the people who you think are going to tune in, I guess.

Catherine O'Brien 00:10:22
Yeah, that's what I was in the same vein, I think that the audience is a little bit further down towards the foundation because you need to know who they are, what they want and what they need, because we know that you give people what they want, but you deliver what they need. That kind of concept. So I wouldn't want to invest marketing efforts in that until you had those things really solid.

Johnny Podcasts 00:10:46

Jon Gay 00:10:46
Another good point to make, too, is that where audience and marketing go together is that one of the top methods of podcast discovery is word of mouth. So your audience and your marketing are going to work together in that regard, too.

Johnny Podcasts 00:10:57
Yeah, that's true.

Matt Cundill 00:10:59
My question is, how long does this take?

Jon Gay 00:11:03
Matt always says one to three years to monetize. That's always Matt's line.

Matt Cundill 00:11:08
Well, I think it's three years to build an audience, but to get to that money point, I think it's different for everyone. But let's say I was asking you as a client, Johnny, how long before I see that top of the pyramid?

Johnny Podcasts 00:11:19
I think it would depend. This is such a cop out, but it depends. So let's do an example show here. What do we want our podcast to be about, Matt?

Matt Cundill 00:11:37
I had two beers at lunch today. I'm in Spain. I have many beers ahead of everybody. I'm probably not the right person for Short Snappers today.

Johnny Podcasts 00:11:46
Catherine, what do you want your podcast to be about?

Catherine O'Brien 00:11:48
Relocating to Spain.

Johnny Podcasts 00:11:50
Relocating to Spain. Okay, great. So we're going to be finding an audience of people who potentially want to leave their country that they're living in to move to Spain. So our content is going to be all about the glorious country of Spain. What there is to do. Maybe we use episodes to break down all of the different countries and counties and towns in Spain, and then we can dive even deeper and be like, what is the actual real estate market look like here? We can interview people who are realtors in Spain, we can talk to tour guides from Spain, things like that. So that's going to be the idea for our podcast. So we've got our content, we get you the mics, we've got our production, we know who our audience is going to be. To get all the way up to the money side of things, I would think that you need to I would agree with Matt. I think you would have to put out at least a year's worth of content. Unless you are somebody who is already really big in the travel space and you have a lot of connections in Spain, which would make sense if that's kind of what you're leaning towards for your podcast, I think you could get there a lot quicker, maybe three to four to five months. And now you're partnering with who are the big travel what's the word? It's a term that used to be a really big thing. A travel guide or travel agent, travel agencies, hotels, restaurants, tourist attractions in Spain, realty companies in Spain. You can privately pitch all of those companies and probably start monetizing relatively quickly. I would be interested to see how big that audience actually is first, but I would say three to four months on the best end. Eight months to a year on a traditional trajectory. You'd have to be really diligent. We're talking like you're putting out content, so much brand new content. It's really fresh. You're putting your all into this thing. This isn't some bullshit podcast that you're doing once every quarter and thinking you're going to monetize it.

Jon Gay 00:13:40
Mark it as explicit, Matt.

Matt Cundill 00:13:42
I was just about to say, somebody remind me to mark this as explicit.

Johnny Podcasts 00:13:45
I can't help myself.

Matt Cundill 00:13:47
I would point out that if you did a year's worth of podcast, that would be 52 episodes. And from that you've had 52 meetings with experts in the industry, and from that you'll get some business that may or may not come out of it. So I think the money can start a little bit before that, or by the time you've had 50 episodes. That's a pretty good marketing network that you've got going.

Johnny Podcasts 00:14:09
Absolutely. And then on your end, Matt, with the DAI, that's a whole catalog of stuff that you're really ready to just pull the trigger on and sell. You don't have to worry about selling episodes forward. You have everything behind you that you can sell and monetize.

Catherine O'Brien 00:14:22
Plus, can I throw in here? This is a great time. On those 52 episodes that you've done, you'll get the feedback from your audience, like, what worked. I think that one of the biggest lessons I've learned from podcasting is to double down on the things that are actually working. There's always that gap between what you think is going to be a hit and what actually hits with people and just being able to see what you get the most response from, the most comments on the most questions. About and start that. It will help you hone in on what your audience really is actually wanting from you.

Johnny Podcasts 00:14:54
And how would you go about doing? We talk about all these different ways to communicate with your audience. Like, a show that I'm working on now is actually doing an audience poll where for four episodes, he's put a Google form into the episodes to get people to give feedback. I feel like the most surface level thing that people would think of when you say that Catherine, is like, which episode is getting the most downloads? And I feel like there's a lot of factors that could play into why an episode gets so many downloads. So what would your recommendations be for people?

Catherine O'Brien 00:15:21
It depends, but depending on the podcast, there are a couple of shows that I work on that I know when the host gets emails, that's the thing for us. So we actually have a way to email the host in the show notes, and when she actually gets the emails, that's like, okay, now I'm really paying attention because that takes a certain level of opting in where people are actually doing something. They've had to overcome a couple of barriers to get to that and

Johnny Podcasts 00:15:50
That's a core listener.

Catherine O'Brien 00:15:52
Yeah. So that we're going to listen to that person.

Johnny Podcasts 00:15:55
Yeah. I'm a big proponent of having your email in there or just creating a Gmail kind of catch all for the podcast. It's like, if you have anything you want to say to the host, questions, whatever, just throw it in that email.

Jon Gay 00:16:07
And it's important to mention too, at the end of the episode not to have too many calls to action. That point that Johnny makes and Catherine makes is really good that you want to have emails of any feedback or concern, but if you start saying like, and rate and review and follow us and email, people are going to lose all of that. So I really think it's wise to have one consistent call to action. And if you're soliciting for feedback, make that your call to action for a handful of episodes, and then you can change it if you want, but really try to keep to one call to action at the end of each episode.

Catherine O'Brien 00:16:35
Yeah, that's effective.

Matt Cundill 00:16:36
They call those the doggy commands. David.

David Yas 00:16:39
Yeah. Well, I have a question for Johnny or for the panel, or for anyone listening. I think the pyramid is well crafted, Johnny, and I think it makes sense. So much of what we do is making sure we don't put the cart before the horse and making sure that you have great content. And your podcast sounds great. It gets to the point right away, it has interesting segments, interesting guests before you start worrying about who's listening. But let's say you're pretty confident in that. So you're in the middle of the pyramid now and you've got an audience. And let's say maybe you're getting somewhere between 203 hundred downloads per episode and you're starting to hear from people in emails, but you just kind of plateau there, right? You're kind of stuck there. This is the dilemma I wrestle with time and time again. It's like, then what do you do? Then do you go back to, maybe I need different content, or I'm doing the marketing things that people say to do. I'm doing the social media, I'm sharing it. So this is obviously an open ended question. It's not necessarily the right answer. But Johnny, maybe you want to start with that.

Johnny Podcasts 00:17:49
I think we need to title this episode that it depends. So think about this. 200 to 300 downloads an episode. If you're getting a lot of email traffic off of that, quote unquote small of an audience, that's fantastic. I would not change my content. If you're getting so much interaction from your listeners off of 200 to 300 listeners, and they're actually emailing you, and it's a significant number of them are doing that, I wouldn't change up your content. I would probably double down on who your audience is. Just because it's 200 to 300 people, that doesn't mean that that's the only 200 to 300 people in the world. I think that's when you jump up into the marketing segment of the pyramid and go, okay, we know who's listening now, where do we find those people who haven't found the podcast out on the internet? Because they're out there.

Jon Gay 00:18:37
This episode is brought to you by Depends, by the way.

David Yas 00:18:42
We're not quite that old, Jack, but I did have a question.

Matt Cundill 00:18:47
Go ahead, David.

David Yas 00:18:49
No, I was just going to say maybe I know that we're talking about the period not necessarily about growing your audience, but the latest sort of effective tool that I seem to hear on other podcasts and everything is that you're doing the social media and Johnny, I think you once gave a good piece of advice, don't go crazy with social media. Find a social media channel that seems to work for you where you're getting feedback and stick with that. But let's say you're doing that. There are always new things that you can do. I've heard the latest is really try to promote yourself and try to get on other podcasts.

Johnny Podcasts 00:19:30
That's just what I was going to say. The new thing is the old thing. So you take your 200, 300 people and you say maybe you email them all back or you call it out and say, hey, you guys have been really great about emailing me. Let me know what other podcasts you listen to, and then try and go get on those podcasts. Because then if their audience is similar, you can now reach at just as many people who listen to that show.

David Yas 00:19:53
I hadn't heard that before. Okay, so you ask your existing audience what other podcasts they listen to and.

Johnny Podcasts 00:19:58
Yeah, I'm just thinking of this. Now this is under the context of like, they're emailing you like crazy and so they want to hear back from you. But I would make that call to action. What other podcasts do you listen to? And then I think it's different. Never mind.

Catherine O'Brien 00:20:12
Well, and Matt has a tool that he uses, but there are tools that will say, this podcast is similar to this podcast. You can even see it within podcast apps. It's kind of like you may also like at the bottom, whatever podcast you're working on, it'll give recommendations for similar podcasts. People who like this one, also like this one. The algorithm is working. 

Jon Gay 00:20:40
In radio we had a term called P ones. Those are your hard core listeners, your primary one. Listeners think of it as being you're the first preset in their car almost. And then from there it goes up to p two, p three, and so on and so forth. And the phrase was always hug your p ones, keep them close to you, really super serve your hardcore fans. And by talking to them and finding them, you can really find out what they like and expand from there.

Matt Cundill 00:21:05
There was going to be a little poll question just to find out if we really could be sponsored by Depends. When was the last time anybody used a travel agent?

Catherine O'Brien 00:21:15
Yeah, full circle generational collide here.

Matt Cundill 00:21:21
1998. But they still exist.

Johnny Podcasts 00:21:24
They do. I got offered to work at one. I was working at Jamba Juice in high school, and I was working at the cash register. And the lady is like, I love the way you just interact with people. Do you want to come work for my travel agency? And I said, what is that?

Jon Gay 00:21:38
Well, now it's YouTube influencers.

Catherine O'Brien 00:21:39
Still telling that story.

Jon Gay 00:21:41
We booked a cruise and my wife looked at some travel agent space that she found on YouTubers giving cruises. I don't remember if we booked it on our own or through an agency or not, but she considered it, at least.

Matt Cundill 00:21:53
What if we signed up our listeners for a cruise? Where does that ship sail to and what are we going to talk about and do?

Jon Gay 00:22:00
We're all going to get on a boat and go Trans Atlantic and go see Matt in Spain.

Catherine O'Brien 00:22:04
Yeah, no kidding. For our relocation. Spain podcast. I mean, it's kind of necessary for us to do that.

Johnny Podcasts 00:22:12
Yeah, I think that's episode one.

Matt Cundill 00:22:14
Remind me, we've got a trademark. All this by the top of the hour. So infinite dial took place, and Catherine and I were talking before everybody got together. I didn't get a note about this or somehow I might have missed it. I thought that I was on an email list that would automatically - maybe when Tom Webster left at US and he took the email list with him, but I didn't get a note for it so it took place. But I did see it in the trades and the infinite dial came up. And has anybody had a chance to go through it? It's not surprising that podcasting went up. Now, if we think back to last year, when you look at the weekly numbers and I do like to look at the weekly numbers too, because that's the one when you know you've got a podcast listener is when they're hooked on it and listening every week. And so the numbers, as I'm just peering off to the side here, it went down. I think there was a lot of shock and horror, but everybody was going back to work. 

Matt Cundill 00:23:16
And the prior year to that was the pandemic where everybody dove into listening to podcasts because we had nothing to do. And so people went back to work. There's a drop. We're horrified. And then this year it comes back up. And Larry Rosen, who he spoke to this, he said, a lot of the numbers in audio have now levelled out, and we can now see that we're sort of back on a current trajectory of where we thought all this was going.

Johnny Podcasts 00:23:38

Matt Cundill 00:23:39
In the first place. So it's in the survey. It's 31% or 89 million Americans listening weekly, which is up from 26% in 2022. To us, it's a big jump, but again, we had irregularity in 2021 and.

Johnny Podcasts 00:23:54
It'S more than doubled in ten years. I mean, the growth is just insane. And I think, Matt, you made the great phrase of when's the best time to get into podcasting is. Right now is the best time to get it, because it's interesting how listening is going up. It seems like there's a lot more Pod fading going on. A lot of the people who got into it in 2021 are fading away, and the real people who are really dedicated to it are the ones that are actually sticking around and they're reaping the benefits of it. Now.

Matt Cundill 00:24:27
Pod News fact that was floated this morning. I'll probably have the wrong number here, but it was about 232,000 new podcast episodes were released just last week. That's your competition. It's not the 4 million in the podcast index that you have to go up against because those 232,000, they're the ones being marketed.

Johnny Podcasts 00:24:50
And then you niche it down into they're not all business interviews, they're not all true crime podcasts, they're not all lawyer podcasts like David's podcasts. When you start to niche it down into the space that you actually play in, the competition gets even smaller and smaller and smaller.

Matt Cundill 00:25:09
The number of podcasts that people are listening to is up. It's up to nine.

Jon Gay 00:25:15

Matt Cundill 00:25:15
Yeah, I've got nine here. US Weekly podcast listeners averaged nine podcasts in the last week.

Catherine O'Brien 00:25:25
That's great.

Matt Cundill 00:25:26
When it was six and seven, I thought, we can't do any more, but there's more.

Johnny Podcasts 00:25:31
Why are episodes getting shorter?

Matt Cundill 00:25:37
I think there's a lot of short form stuff out there that people can consume.

Johnny Podcasts 00:25:40

Catherine O'Brien 00:25:44
I have to say, because as Matt shared, I was out of the loop. I felt a little silly knowing, oh, it already came out. The thing that I really missed is the witty banter on Twitter with all these as these things come out every year, I would find at least a couple of people, new podcasting people that I didn't know, that would make some very insightful comments about the information coming out for Infinite Dial and get a great new follow. So that's the part I'm really feeling sad about.

Matt Cundill 00:26:15
So I just want to drop just the social media part of this thing because we get questions all the time. What is the best place to market your show and on which one of these social media tools? So for the first time, there's Macedon, Truth, Social and Discord, which finally got added. They've obviously sort of at the bottom, and I don't think we really have a formula on that yet. Facebook down, especially with younger people. But Instagram is up and TikTok is off a little bit, it appears.

Jon Gay 00:26:50
For what it's worth, being around some current college students this weekend, Instagram, is still really massive with them. With Gen Z, that is still one of their media of choice.

Johnny Podcasts 00:27:01
I think Instagram made a smart move by pivoting into Reals. They basically just said, let's just clone what TikTok is doing and offer that as well. So they have the brand awareness, at least in America, that Instagram has had simply by being out longer than TikTok. And they've been able to sort of mirror their model a little bit. So it's very easy for people to convert over to that.

Jon Gay 00:27:24
Also worth mentioning, if you want to have a presence on Instagram with your podcast. Somebody asked me recently, hey, how do I share this on Instagram? If you go to your podcast on Spotify and use the Share button on Spotify, it will allow you to share that to Instagram. So if you want to have a presence on Instagram, you can do that from Spotify.

Matt Cundill 00:27:41
You can do the same for with Amazon Music now, I found out too.

Jon Gay 00:27:44

Catherine O'Brien 00:27:44
Oh, wow. Okay, good to know, good to know.

Matt Cundill 00:27:49
So for all the blah, blah, blah, blah, blah about Twitter in the last year, Twitter remains the same.

Catherine O'Brien 00:27:57
The rumors of Twitter's death exaggerated, apparently.

Matt Cundill 00:28:03
But think of us all. We're all just like talk, talk, talk, talk, and Twitter is going down the tubes. And now we see increased investment on Discord true social and stuff like that. But Twitter didn't go away. I never understood the people who want to up and leave because you're leaving your audience. That's where your audience is. They're not going to come with you. So you kind of have to still be there.

Jon Gay 00:28:26
Yeah fish where the fish are.

Johnny Podcasts 00:28:29
Because even if you have x thousand number of followers, they're not going to see every single thing that you post. And so that conversion rate is already so low of them even seeing your post and interacting with your post on a daily basis and then taking the leap of being like, oh, I'm going to leave with you and join Mastodon because your content is just so freaking amazing.

Catherine O'Brien 00:28:54
This Podcast supports Podcasting 20. If you like this show or getting value from it, hit the boost button now. If you don't have a boost button, you can get one now at new

Matt Cundill 00:29:10
Okay, so round the table, because this one I love, big jump is LinkedIn. That's all up to 26%. And so everybody talk about why they love LinkedIn and why this should be.

Johnny Podcasts 00:29:22
What slide are you on, Matt?

Matt Cundill 00:29:24
I'm on the social media slide.

Johnny Podcasts 00:29:26
Brand awareness.

Matt Cundill 00:29:27
Can you see social media brand usage?

Johnny Podcasts 00:29:29

Matt Cundill 00:29:30
It's social media brand usage.

Johnny Podcasts 00:29:32
Okay, I got it.

Jon Gay 00:29:33
I would say with LinkedIn, I think a lot of businesses are really coming into the realization that they need to use branded podcasts. That branded podcasts are an excellent tool to market your business. And with podcasting growing again, really growing over the last with doubling in the last ten years, I believe Katherine said that because of the massive growth of podcasting and awareness in the business community, I think that people are realizing that LinkedIn is a great way to have your professional branded business podcast and share it there.

Johnny Podcasts 00:30:06
I'll go next. I'm really embedded with a lot of people that are big on Twitter. Like, they use Twitter as kind of there. That's why I'm such a big advocate for it, is that all the people that I'm surrounded with use Twitter primarily. And what I'm hearing a lot of is that Twitter's algorithm has changed, and a lot of them are kind of just reposting a lot of their content over onto LinkedIn, and it seems to be performing very well. So they're taking a lot of their threads and things that they're posting and writing about that would normally perform really well on Twitter is not performing as well now. They're seeing a ton of traffic on LinkedIn, so I think they're using it as sort of just like a backup to Twitter. So at least that in my sphere. That's what I'm seeing a lot with LinkedIn.

David Yas 00:30:45
Well, I'm reminded of what bank robber Willie Sutton said when they asked him why he robbed banks. He said, because that's where the money is. So if you're thinking about monetizing your podcast, you could do worse than LinkedIn simply because where businesses live, businesses, professional firms, professionals, lawyers, investment advisors, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera, that's their world. A law firm this is my world, so speak to it. But a law firm might have a TikTok channel, but the pirate don't know what they're doing on it. They probably don't know what they're doing on Instagram, and they probably don't know what they're doing on Facebook, but they know exactly what they're doing on LinkedIn. And so I find that the podcast that I produce, if there's a professional bent to it and we post the latest episode, you'll get a dozen comments just saying, "Hey, that's great", "hey, I can't wait to listen to this". I just find that that kind of traffic is worth its weight in gold, because then, as we know, you can shout out all those people on the next episode of the podcast. You can use them to become sort of ambassadors for your show. And the best way to build an audience is for others to be sharing your show. LinkedIn, it's kind of like a well oiled machine as far as that goes.

Johnny Podcasts 00:32:01
Yeah, on LinkedIn, David, you're so right. They really push. Like anytime you comment on a post, all of their followers now see the post that you commented on. And so getting twelve comments may not seem like a lot, it's probably not a lot on Twitter, but on Twitter, those comments don't get that whole post doesn't get reshared to all of their followers. So it's a really good kind of duplication machine to just get it in front of a ton of eyeballs.

Matt Cundill 00:32:27
One thing with the Twitter algorithm that has changed it is to the benefit of people who share content. So if you're a podcaster and you want to push stuff out to your audience and you're getting interaction from people, it will show up with people who are already in your audience, they won't have to scroll through for the whole thing. So that's nice. There was one other stat, though, that I thought just going back away from the social media too, and that was 55 plus listening did not move for podcasting, which I think that's a little concerning.

Jon Gay 00:33:00
Did they all die?

David Yas 00:33:03
Hey, man, I'm almost there. Careful.

Catherine O'Brien 00:33:07
Philosophically, I think that podcasters should still continue to look at that as a potential that they should see the older listener as a potential audience to reach. And having worked with a podcast that was geared to that audience, if an audience is being underserved, then that should spell opportunity for you. So I don't think that people should discount that and just having that as a sort of a little bit open to our 55 plus listeners.

Jon Gay 00:33:36
Part of a self fulfilling prophecy there, Catherine? Where is it a matter of there's a perception that folks over 55 aren't listening, so there's not a lot of content being created for them. Could that be a reason for the draw?

Matt Cundill 00:33:47
There's not enough content.

Catherine O'Brien 00:33:49
Yeah, I wonder if there's a lot of truth to that.

Matt Cundill 00:33:53
There's not enough content being created for them.

Johnny Podcasts 00:33:56
Well, think about I mean, the golden rule in advertising is that you're marketing to 18 to 49. 55 plus. Those people may have, you know, given the boomer generation, they have a way more disposal of income than Millennials and Gen Z and Gen X.

Jon Gay 00:34:12
There's way more of them now, too.

Johnny Podcasts 00:34:13
There's way more of them now, too. But, you know, the traditional advertising deal is, why would we pay to be on 55 plus? We want to market to 18 to 49.

Matt Cundill 00:34:23
Why do marketers do that? That's a family reunion. 18 to 49.

Johnny Podcasts 00:34:30
That's way too big of a category.

Matt Cundill 00:34:32
Yeah, but I mean, Jag, you put up with us for a number of years, like, you know, trying to seek out 25 to 54 all the time.

Jon Gay 00:34:40
Or 18 to 34 when I was in top 40 as well, and they don't have the money to spend. To Johnny's point, as 45, 55 plus.

Matt Cundill 00:34:50
These same marketers, by the way, are probably trying to use Facebook to reach them. Of course, we just saw the data that says they're abandoning Facebook.

Jon Gay 00:34:56
If you have a marketing firm and they're telling you, reach your young audience with Facebook, fire your marketing firm.

Catherine O'Brien 00:35:03
Facebook or me.

Johnny Podcasts 00:35:04
But it also depends on who your audience is. That goes back to the pyramid. If your audience is people above 25, they're probably not on TikTok. So should you focus your marketing efforts on Facebook? Maybe if that's where the majority of your audience hangs out. But if your audience is 18 to 24, maybe you got to look at TikTok then.

Catherine O'Brien 00:35:25
And I know this is not exactly where we're going, but to me, this is where the YouTube question comes in for those people who are 55 and older, is because the familiarity of YouTube and some of the opportunities that YouTube are kind of exploring with podcasting, I think that might be a way to reach that audience.

Matt Cundill 00:35:47
Okay, so I just got to the line of scrimmage, and Catherine has made the call. We were going to talk about DAI, but we're now going to talk about YouTube.

Catherine O'Brien 00:35:55
I thought that was a beautiful, natural segue.

Matt Cundill 00:35:58
Yeah, well, I thought so, too. That's why I took it. I just had to call it the line of Scrimmage. Here Omaha.

Catherine O'Brien 00:36:05
It's a football playing catherine oh, I yeah, got it. Yeah.

Matt Cundill 00:36:10
So YouTube has decided to venture into podcasting. There was Google podcast again. They've decided to redo it. There's a long tour of history with this, and I'm not even sure where to start with this, but the advice that came down a few weeks ago was to organize your video podcast and YouTube in the format of a playlist. And if you did that, then you'd be able to participate. And I just opened up my YouTube last night and I saw podcast. I saw the word podcast. And you could create a podcast by adding the videos in there and then put the artwork up. It did not ask for an RSS feed, but I thought, okay, that's interesting. So I already had the playlist done. And then I thought to myself, well, where is this going? And is this going to be a good thing? And if I give them my RSS feed, what are they going to do with it? Are they actually going to be populating the audio every week and putting it into YouTube music, which is where I believe it's going to be headed? Or are they just going to be taking it and caching it? So from this information that we have so far, has anybody taken any steps to create their podcast and submit it to YouTube?

Johnny Podcasts 00:37:22
I have a client who does an audio only podcast, and we recently just started uploading them to YouTube. So I make the thumbnail. I put it up on YouTube as a video, and I put them all in a playlist. Because, Matt, I got the same option as you where it offered. Once I clicked on that playlist, it said set as podcast. So I did that. And so far, nothing else has changed. Not the look, not the way it shows up for people. It just is now considered a podcast.

David Yas 00:37:48
That doesn't seem to be any machine that input takes your RSS feed. It's just a way of labeling a video on YouTube.

Johnny Podcasts 00:37:55
Yeah, it's essentially, instead of calling it a playlist, it's now called a podcast.

Catherine O'Brien 00:38:02
But if I understand correctly, it is conveniently if you had other content it is organized as a playlist automatically, correct?

Johnny Podcasts 00:38:10

David Yas 00:38:12
It's kind of nothing pretty much. Although it doesn't hurt. I mean, it doesn't hurt to give attention to podcasts on YouTube, but we already do podcaster.

Matt Cundill 00:38:24
This feels like what Google Play did. Didn't they do this? They sort of asked for our RSS feeds and then they just sort of put it all up and it sat in the Google Play store and it was weird.

Catherine O'Brien 00:38:34
Yeah, well, I have a couple of little titbits of anecdotal and I have to just right off the bat, it is totally anecdotal information about the YouTube podcasting thing. So similar to Matt, I started seeing prompts in the YouTube app for podcasting and as I clicked through, one thing I did notice and we all know I like some offbeat topics, I like some niches of niches. I can get really granular. There one thing I have been noticing though is that very what we would call like small podcasts. They're getting good numbers for audio podcasts but compared to other YouTube videos they would be considered low views. I'm talking about in the couple of hundreds. I've been noticing that the YouTube algorithm is promoting what smaller podcasts to me and I thought, okay, well that's kind of interesting. That's something that I wasn't quite expecting. But if I click through on the tab just to see what YouTube is saying is podcasting, I don't see really any difference from the stuff that I would normally see as videos. So that's kind of what David was saying is that what is the difference? Like I said, I am anecdotally seeing a lot of things that I otherwise would not see that are labeled as podcasts. But in sort of the main podcast arena I'm seeing all the typical stuff that everybody sees all the time anyway. Did that make sense? So I'm hoping that some of the maybe the algorithms are working to boost shows that otherwise would not be seen and getting them those views or those listens that they might not experience on other podcast platforms. But yeah, I'm kind of sort of cautiously optimistic about what the future holds. The other thing that I wonder is a big opportunity is advertising back to Johnny's marketing layer of the podcast pyramid is. I wonder how impactful it's going to be if people start advertising their podcasts on YouTube, doing paid advertisements to get in front of those audiences and get those eyeballs and ear holes to pay attention to their show. And I haven't quite heard a lot of people talking about that in the past. Before YouTube was making this move into podcasting, every once in a while I would see an audio only podcast being promoted, paid sponsorship to be put in front of me. But yeah, so I'm wondering if that's really going to be what is going to be an opportunity for some of our podcasts.

Matt Cundill 00:41:14
I right now will not be participating in that because right now it's USA only, so that doesn't do my audience any good. And secondly, I don't think they're going to be picking up any of my ads from the dai that I'm going to be putting out there. So I'm essentially going to be doing all the work promoting the podcast for YouTube, and those listeners are not going to hear the ads in my podcast now. I don't even know if I'll be compensated for it, but we'll see.

Catherine O'Brien 00:41:45
Yeah, I believe that there are the same options that you have now, which is like, if you have a YouTube video, if you have a video you can say includes paid promotion, I think that you'll be able to do that with the podcast as well, so there wouldn't be a conflict there. But, yeah, I'm just thinking about the all important audience growth part, is that if you can pay for other people to get in front of people, that might be very helpful.

Matt Cundill 00:42:13
David, you've got a pretty significant podcast with a lot of episodes in it. How are you going to handle it?

David Yas 00:42:20
I'm not sure. I've just been getting a lot of my podcasts. I work onto YouTube in one way or another. But you're asking about YouTube, right?

Matt Cundill 00:42:32
Yeah. Okay. How are you going to put all those up there and how you're going to organize it, too, especially if it's going to go into YouTube music, and you've got a music podcast, that might be beneficial.

David Yas 00:42:43
It also might be a problem because they might flag a lot of podcasts.

Johnny Podcasts 00:42:47
Are you worried about it getting pulled down? If you're playing music on there, you're.

Catherine O'Brien 00:42:50
Finally going to get caught. Johnny Ampass is going to finally catch up. What is that?

Johnny Podcasts 00:42:56
Johnny Law?

Catherine O'Brien 00:42:57
Yeah, I'll finally catch up with you.

David Yas 00:42:59
All right, so first of all, I'm squarely within the boundaries of what is legal under the US Copyright Act, and I'm quite confident of that. However, YouTube is notorious for blocking copyright protected music, and we know why they do it. They don't want you to be able to go to steal the music, which everybody does anyways. To answer your question, Matt, I'm not sure I have a plan. My plan is to get podcasts on YouTube, period. And I think it's more a sense of I think it's more important to do it going forward. If you're a podcaster trying to move up that pyramid and you're worried about getting all your back episodes, manually adding them to YouTube, which from what I hear, you would have to do that right, because it still doesn't accept an RSS feed.

Johnny Podcasts 00:43:52
Unless they do the RSS feed. What I would recommend, David, if you were going to do that, I would just find someone on fiverr to do it, be like, I'm going to create a YouTube login. I'm going to create a YouTube account. It's going to be a random email that I make and a random password. So that way this person that you're hiring, you're not giving them your email access and just say, here's Mp3 files of everything. Here's the thumbnail that I need. I'll pay you $50 to upload every single one of these.

David Yas 00:44:20
And that's probably the best way to go. Yes, I may do that. But if you don't mind talking about that other issue briefly, because it will become an issue for a lot of people. The spotify. Police have emerged, not YouTube. Again, I don't know whether YouTube is going to go crazy with podcasts to knock out what they deem copyright protected material, but I've been getting emails from Spotify. I don't know if you guys have been getting these. It says, Hi there, we wanted to let you know that there appears to be third party content in your podcast and additional information is needed to continue interrupted playback. Please review within 72 hours to avoid potential cancellation or whatever. And so what it what then you click through to that? I was trying to do it, but it's not working. But anyway, it will name like, gave me my music podcast. It gave me the songs that appeared in the podcast and then it said the options were and I wish I had this in front of me, but it was like, yeah, I don't have copyright rights to this. I will fix it. You could click on that or you can click on I disagree. This is not third party content. Or the most important one is this is approved use under the fair Use exception to the Copyright Act for commentary, criticism, parity. Or there's another one I'm forgetting. And good on Spotify for recognizing that that is a thing, because it is a thing. On my music podcast, we play clips of there's maybe five to 10 seconds of uninterrupted music and then it's the host and I talking over it and commenting on it, which is exactly what the fair use thing is there for. So good on your spotify. It's going to be a pain in the ass every time I post one of these to click through and tell them, yes, I'm using this legal, but better than just wiping it off like YouTube probably still does.

Johnny Podcasts 00:46:20
YouTube will just nuke your channel that you're on.

David Yas 00:46:23
Yeah, you don't even see it coming.

Matt Cundill 00:46:27
I had one note from Spotify. It wasn't my podcast, it was another one, and it was because a radio ID had a Luke Comb song in it and they were just profiling the radio station. But there's about 20 seconds of the song in there, which was enough, and I just took it out. Anyhow, it should be interesting to see how all this sort of shakes out and that we all have different strategies. One thing I would like to point out is, Johnny, this show runs on your channel and my channel on YouTube, we could both submit the podcast.

Johnny Podcasts 00:47:02
That's what I was going to do. I was just looking over up to the side. I was just going to set all of the live because all of the only live videos I've done have been this podcast. So I was just going to set it all as a playlist and make that a podcast because I played with the podcast tab that Catherine was talking about, and she's right, it does whittle down everything that you would normally see. I'm not seeing NBA highlights anymore. It's all, you know, podcasts that I would consume on YouTube, so it's I think it'd be worth it.

Matt Cundill 00:47:28
So, on a scale of one to ten, how excited are you for this going around? There's a five. Catherine 6.1. David, how excited are you with all the work you have to do?

David Yas 00:47:45
Well, that's just it. When people used to ask me about YouTube, I used to say, file it under nice to have, but not essential because podcasts are an audio creature. But I'm getting tugged more into that world and I understand we need to be there, but to me, it's just practicality. If you're a busy podcaster, you're probably not going to spend a ton of time creating a video version of your podcast, but you want it up there in some way, shape, form or fashion to be redundant.

Jon Gay 00:48:17
Let me count the point to you, Dave. Dave because I would say probably six, because there's a lot of discovery happening on YouTube. It would be nice, my dream would be for YouTube to somehow incorporate the RSS feed. So when you're how many people are listening to your podcast, you can say, well, I have this many on the podcast with this many on YouTube, and combine the two numbers. It'd be nice if it was one number you had at the ready to give somebody. But there are tools, like Headliner, for example, that you can set up an automation to auto post your podcast to YouTube, use that for a couple of clients that when that podcast publishes within an hour, it's on YouTube and it takes the show notes and it takes all that puts it in the description, done and done. And it's not a heavy lift on the editor of the podcaster Dave.

David Yas 00:48:58
Yeah, I mean, I'm with you. I think you should be on YouTube, absolutely, but I don't think it's not going to move you too far up the pyramid, not at this point. But heck, all we know, getting on YouTube increases your audience by 25% to 30%. I just made that number up. Or at least it's going to increase your podcast being found by Google searches.

Jon Gay 00:49:25
I think it's a little bit unique to podcasts with specific podcasts, too, because there are some podcasts that have more followers on YouTube than they do on the traditional RSS feed, and some that are vice versa. So it's kind of back to the beginning we talked about, about knowing your audience, figuring out where they're consuming your content and really embracing that piece of it wherever they're coming in strongest.

David Yas 00:49:45
And we all know that a YouTube hit, what do we call it, views. A YouTube view, I think to us doesn't carry the same weight as a podcast download. However, if this is the new world, then maybe we're going to be just displaying two types of stats whenever say, a potential sponsor asks you for what your download numbers are. Here are my downloads, here are my views on YouTube. I'm not sure.

Matt Cundill 00:50:13
Well, they have asked for RSS feeds so we will be submitting them at some point. So the question is, are they going to just take those, the content from the RSS feed and cache it and keep it or is it going to be passed through and whatnot? It's going to be interesting to see how they do it.

Johnny Podcasts 00:50:36
Go ahead Kevin.

Catherine O'Brien 00:50:37
No. You go, Johnny.

Johnny Podcasts 00:50:38
No, mine's taking it in a different direction.

Catherine O'Brien 00:50:40
And I was going to say David, you make me think of again, let me get philosophical here for a second. I think that in earlier podcasting we were so passionate about making a distinction between we're not radio, we're not video, we're something special and different. And in that process, now that YouTube is coming back as a viable option for our shows, there's a little bit of like almost like we're having to retread or the word that's coming in my mind that's not quite right is sort of like a pride of letting go of that differentiation and coming back to YouTube and saying, yes, we want to be here and put things out with gusto. So and maybe that maybe I'm sharing a little bit too about my own psychology about it. But I do see that as part of the part of the issue here. Any agreement on that or thoughts of that?

David Yas 00:51:33
I agree and I'll add one more wrinkle and that is that I was listening to a podcast the other day which when asked to name the top, some expert, sorry, I don't remember who it was, asked to name what the top ways to grow their audience are that are kind of now a new one happening. First one he said was live streaming which is why the five of us have happening. Cutting edge people are doing this live stream right now and it's just to me, if you're an aspiring podcast or you're trying to grow our audience, it's like now your head's going to explode. It's like, well now I got to be on YouTube and I got a live stream. But he brought up a couple of good points and that is there are things you can do on a live stream that you simply can't do on a regular recorded podcast. You can do calls to action and you can touch your audience immediately. You can hear from them. You do what you do when you start. You ask twelve of your friends, hey, do me a favor and just watch my live stream and share it afterwards. If you can, then maybe you start to develop an audience. You can do instant things like sign up for our email newsletter. You can put that up and have them do it immediately. And you can have people contribute to your show, the virtual tip jar, or however they do it. Certain platforms have this and certain people are making money off of this. So sorry if I went a far field there, but scared Jag off.

Matt Cundill 00:52:56
I was watching Jag have an existential crisis with whatever.

Catherine O'Brien 00:53:01
We've shaken Jag's world.

Johnny Podcasts 00:53:03

Matt Cundill 00:53:03
Johnny, did you want to take us in a different direction?

Johnny Podcasts 00:53:05
It was just one final tag on the YouTube thing. You can even kind of just split the difference. Once they start letting you access RSS feeds, you upload your RSS feed. But I still think that you should consider videoing your podcast, even if it's just for clips. Because when I talk to Daniel J. Lewis on my podcast, he's very anti YouTube being a podcast platform, which is fine, everyone can have that opinion. But he did concede and compromise and say, like, it's a great opportunity to share 510 twelve minute clips of your podcast. And if those are on video, and then that pushes someone to the RSS feed that's still on YouTube. You're not asking them to leave YouTube. And go to Spotify, go to Google Podcast, go to Apple, just click right below. Boom. RSS feed. Audio only podcast. Now they're hooked onto your show or they're just someone who just consumes the clips. So I think there's sort of a middle ground that we can all be happy with.

Catherine O'Brien 00:54:00

Matt Cundill 00:54:00
All right, let's check in to see how Jag is doing. Jag, are you winning the war over there against your computer? He is not okay. He is losing currently to I guess that might be the bots there.

Catherine O'Brien 00:54:12
I like that blue steel look, though, he's got going.

Matt Cundill 00:54:15
Oh, now, okay, so the last one that came up here, this was last Monday, johnny put out his newsletter, and in the newsletter he said that commented about DAI. DAI, by the way, stands for dynamic ad insertion. So from this point forward, when you hear DAI, it means Dynamic Ad insertion. I've never heard of a debate involving whether DAI is good or bad, because me, I believe it is all good. So tell me about the ongoing sort of struggles between the two.

Johnny Podcasts 00:54:42
Johnny, it's confirmation bias. Matt, you are so pro DAI. Coming from the radio world. This is what you live from. The conversations that I've had with either their clients of mine or other podcasters online, there's a big camp of people that say, I would much rather just burn an ad onto my podcast. I don't care. If I could make more money potentially by swapping them out. It takes the listeners out of the show because it's not my voice. It's some crap. Obviously not Matt. Matt's, amazing voiceover, but it's some crackpot voiceover artist recording in their kitchen for I heart saying, go buy It's just not the type of content that it's not the ads that my audience wants to see. It doesn't fit with my audience. The levels are off. It's terrible. I can't fit it in the right area of my podcast. I'm just not into it. So there is that camp and then there's the camp that Matt's in, which is very pro DAI. We think it's great for podcasters. It's less work, you can make more money, you can utilize your back catalog. You don't have to spend the extra time burning an ad that you have to record yourself. You don't have to go out and find the sponsors yourself. You can do it all online without having to really talk to people. So I see that there's these two sides of DAI and I think that ultimately we're just so early on in it that there are the two camps. And as technology continues to increase, there will be better discovery, better alignment between advertisers and hosts, better optionality for it. And Matt, there is technology that you've talked about where you can be very specific as the host of I don't want these ads, I only want these types of ads. I think it just needs more time. And as time progresses, I think the dii will be the primary way that people do podcast advertising. And if you want to split the difference now, Jack made a great point a couple of livestreams ago. You can just use Dai to promote your own stuff. You can do your own recording, you can make the levels great, you can use your own microphone. That way you're in control of all the content that's being put out there, but you can still utilize Dai and all that it has to offer.

David Yas 00:56:43
But just to be clear, when you said DAI and then there are ads coming in that sort of you don't have anything to do with that doesn't have to be DAI, right? I mean, you can set your own you can create your own ads, you can improve your own ads and have only them run.

Jon Gay 00:56:58
That's what I do. Yeah, there's a misnomer there. I think about DAI to Johnny's point, is that it's not mattress firm and ZIPRECRUITER coming in and spamming your audience. It's whatever you want in your show. So the A in DAI, the ad is a little bit of a misnomer because it should really be DC, actually. Dynamic Content Insertion.

Matt Cundill 00:57:17
It doesn't have audio insertion.

Jon Gay 00:57:20
I stand corrected. Thank you, Matt. I need more coffee. But I think people think of it as Dynamic Ad Insertion. I'm going to kick save and a beauty there. But I think it's important to remember that it doesn't have to be a commercial. It can be a promo for your show. This what I mentioned a couple of times ago is that the Radio podcast I did, we used it to sell tickets to our banquet. I had an ad that ran, hey, get your tickets now. It's this price. And then that changed. Hey, get your tickets. It's this price. Hey, get your tickets. It's this price. Every time the ticket price went up. And I used that with a marker so I didn't have to reprogram 50 episodes every time.

Catherine O'Brien 00:57:58
We really need to do an all DAI episode sometime.

Matt Cundill 00:58:03
Put that on the yeah, I think we probably could do one and talk about all the different ways that can be used and the dynamic audio insertion episode, as it were. I think a lot of people are confused by it, but what does it mean? So you put a midroll marker in, then there's the line. And then what happens next? Well, it could be a mattress firm ad, but it would also be one of your ads. And it depends. Like, I'm in Spain right now and I'm getting Spanish ads, so I'm getting paid for stuff pork it. So with that said, I'm going to mark that down as a show idea. Catherine, thank you. Thanks a lot. It's 06:00 here in Spain. It's just the time for me. I don't know what time it is for the rest of you, but anyhow going around, everybody give yourself a plug and thanks for doing this this week.

Jon Gay 00:58:53
I'm John Gay Jagged Detroit Podcast. You can find me on social at Jag in Detroit or on my website,

Catherine O'Brien 00:59:00
Thanks for being here, everybody. My name is Catherine O'Brien. You can find me on Twitter at HelloCatherineO.

David Yas 00:59:07
Yes. In Boston. Pod six one The Boston Podcast Network. We produce podcasts remotely or in Boston. And if you're interested, because I know you are, about that music podcast I keep talking about, it's called Past Tens, and you can find all about it at the website

Johnny Podcasts 00:59:23
Johnny podcast. Go. Find me on Substack the Johnny Podcast newsletter.

Matt Cundill 00:59:28
I'm Matt Cundill, currently in Malaga, Spain, with the Sound Off podcast network. Thanks a lot for joining us. We'll do it again next month.

Voiceover 00:59:36
Thanks for listening to the podcast Superfriends. For a transcript of the show or to connect with the Superfriends, go to the show notes of this episode, or go to Soundoff dot network, produced and distributed by the Soundoff Media company.