Jason Rockman: And Rockman IS his real name

Tara Sands (Voiceover)  0:02  
The Sound Off podcast, the show about podcast and broadcast starts now.

Matt Cundill  0:14  
Jason Rockman is a Montreal radio personality, but before that he was in a rock and roll band. Slaves on Dope were a Canadian new metal band that won the 1994 show L'Esprit competition. We're going to talk about his experience with that band, how he got into radio, and we'll enjoy his grateful nature. You can listen to Jason these days on Montreal's The Beat 92.5 . And now Jason Rockman joins me from Montreal. how are you?

Jason Rockman  0:44  
I'm good, man.

Matt Cundill  0:45  
Have we met?

Jason Rockman  0:46  
No, I know of you, but we've never met.

Matt Cundill  0:49  
Maybe that's been better.

Jason Rockman  0:52  
So, the first time I heard your name, well, I know I heard your name on Showm, but I remember when I think the first shift I did at Showm, I was looking through the window, and either Sharon,

Matt Cundill  1:04  
oh yeah, Sharon Hyland.

Jason Rockman  1:06  
Okay, so I think she said she thought I was Matt Cundill when she looked at me through the window. So, on the first nights I went in, she's like, 'I thought you were Matt Cundill. Like, well, no, I'm not.

Matt Cundill  1:14  
Yeah, I guess you're the first person I'm interviewing where we're going to talk about the music and Slaves on Dope. So, tell me about how Slaves on Dope came together and when it all started.

Jason Rockman  1:29  
Started in the early 90s in Montreal, we played our first show at Station 10 in like 9293 February 5, 1993 So it was a long fucking time ago. We just kind of kind of started in the in during the whole, you know, the beginning of the 90s, where music was really shifting, and there was so much stuff going on, we didn't fit into anything that was going on, like that was popping at the time, like we weren't grunge, we were more into bands like Faith No More and Jane's Addiction, and stuff like that, bands that didn't really have rules, so that was probably to our detriment to a certain degree in Canada, because we just couldn't get arrested here. Shown gave us a chance, I mean, you know, we did the show Miss Breathing, and Too Tall liked us, and we ended up winning that, but it was just on our live show, you know. We didn't have anything that was really ever radio friendly. We didn't have any, like, it never made sense. Our band never made sense the whole time we were together, even with all the stuff we ended up doing, and, and we did pretty well at one point, but we never made, we never made sense on paper.

Matt Cundill  2:27  
Show them less free CD was a big deal, though, and it was, I think, 92 is your year, right?

Jason Rockman  2:31  
We, I think we went at 94

Matt Cundill  2:33  
Okay, but

Jason Rockman  2:34  
yeah, yeah, it was a big deal. Big deal, yeah, it was a huge deal. If you're in the city and you wanted to get any kind of attention, or you wanted to get any, you know, any leg up. The show must free was that, was the thing, and guys of a certain age will remember that show, you know, when show them supported bands that win, it's all too tall. It was a huge deal for bands. I mean, just being able to go to Canadian Music Week, getting on that CD, getting flown out to go play a show, it was just.. it was awesome.

Matt Cundill  2:59  
It was wild, and I was at Schome from 92 to 94 and so I'd worked on three of those projects. I worked alongside Too Tall, he just hustled his ass to get stuff done across the country, and you're right. Listen, it was an odd time for Muzik. Showm struggled with Nirvana, that's well documented, with Smells Like Teen Spirit. When I got there in spring of 92 they struggling with Red Hot Chili Peppers Under the Bridge, didn't know if it was, if it would fit. There were just certain songs that they just couldn't grab onto right away. They wanted to be one thing, and the era of, you know, the classic rock of the Super Tramp and the Genesis was kind of being sort of ushered to the side, the grunge had sort of come in, the hair metal thing was over, and if you took from from any of those piles, it was, it was very complicated, and Faith No More is a perfect example of that, because the big hit comes from 88 epic, yep, and then the next album comes out in the following years, Angel Dust,

Jason Rockman  4:02  
yeah, total flop,

Matt Cundill  4:04  
yeah, total flop. Listen, I love Midlife Crisis, yeah, I love

Jason Rockman  4:07  
the whole record. I mean,

Matt Cundill  4:08  
I got to play that at 7o'clock in the morning on Showm, and I was just like, this is really good, this is a banger. I love this song, yeah, this is good.

Jason Rockman  4:17  
It's funny because when you see where Showm is at now, you know the stuff that they consider, like, new classic, if you will, is all that stuff that they had a hard time playing. I mean, you can hear Under the Bridge all the time on show them. Now you'll hear it smells like teen spirit all the time. When I was there, I had a, you know, a segment called the 90s at nine, which lasted for, you know, like 13 years, 14 years, whatever, and it was all about the 90s, like people tuned in for that hour of 90s music, so yeah, it's.. it's just funny how you.. it's hard to go out and be a trendsetter. It's hard to go out there and forge your own road, but the ones that do it after, I think in the long run it really pays off, or it doesn't, and you can just say that you didn't care, like we kind of did.

Matt Cundill  4:58  
I remember Station 10. One, and I remember the Lespreet events, and everything that came with it. So, in the subsequent years after that, how did the band fare? What was the, what was the next big signing? What did you guys do? 9596 97 In that period,

Jason Rockman  5:15  
we ended up signing to a local jazz label called Just in Time, you know, which made no sense again, and then you know we had a full-length record that we had recorded at Studio Victor with this guy, Glenn Robinson, really accomplished producer. He'd done a bunch of really, really cool stuff, and we paid for it all ourselves. We just wanted to label, we wanted someone to support us, and again, we're our way of thinking was a little bit ahead of its time, like nowadays everybody does independent records, and they throw them up themselves, but back then we were trying to do it, and we just couldn't get anywhere, but we, we had a finished record, so we signed up this label, we didn't really get anywhere with it, but they allowed us, you know, they bought us a trailer, we got back out on the road, we toured, and then we just hit our heads against the wall, and we finally said, look, why don't we move or do something? And we had a manager at the time who was managing this one artist, and he said, "Look, I can't manage you anymore, but I think you should, I should go to Los Angeles, that's where what you're doing is popping off, and where it's happening. And we ended up getting in a van, and we moved to LA in 99 and within three months we got offered like three record deals, and within six months Sharon Osborne wanted to sign us, and the rest, you know, was kind of history. We, we did a record with her, we went on the Oz Fest, we toured all over, we did really well, and it was, it was great, but it was because we had enough balls to just say, let's just move, like we've gone across Canada 12 times, like nothing is happening for us here we have a fan base, but it's not like the industries doesn't want us, and as soon as we got to Los Angeles, it was like we felt like we found we were in the right place

Matt Cundill  6:49  
again. Another confusing time across Canada, because the type of music the slaves on dope was doing, it was the right time, 9798 stuff began to really, really stick, active rock, I know, because I got the God Smack records, and I got the Disturbs, eventually came, and then the tools, and all that stuff was, you know, belonged on the radio in many, many markets, and I was in Edmonton, good hard rock in town, we had a good hard rock and radio station, and stuff began to fit, and Too Tall never stopped working, you, because he was calling, he was calling to say, keep your head up, if you find an opportunity to play slaves on dope, this is going to be the place, but at the same time, I was in Edmonton, and I was telling bands to go to Vancouver, Nickelback, notably amongst others, but I, you know, I said, listen, you're in Edmonton, you need to go get attention in places like Seattle, Vancouver, Los Angeles, you were going to get noticed.

Jason Rockman  7:45  
Yeah, exactly, exactly. That was where it was happening in the West Coast, you know. I remember the God Smack record, and you know, Sully did that record himself, for I think it cost four grand to record it, something stupid. And I mean, that record made him a multi millionaire, because he did everything himself, he played everything on the record himself, drums, everything, and you know, now they're one of the biggest bands in rock,

Matt Cundill  8:07  
and championed by Mistress Carrie,

Jason Rockman  8:09  
yes,

Matt Cundill  8:10  
at W A F, you know, and you know, bands need radio stations to help them,

Jason Rockman  8:15  
and when I got into radio, that is exactly what I wanted to do, I wanted to do what Too Tall did. I wanted to help bands, and I, I did when I got a gold record from band, you know, made out to me. I never got a gold record with slaves, but I got, you know, I have four of them, five of them that I got from bands. That means more to them to me than getting one that for my myself. Do you know what I mean?

Matt Cundill  8:36  
Yeah, I figure if you're in LA and you want to get attention, KR OQ was the station, right.

Jason Rockman  8:42  
Yep, yep. K Rock was the, was the one, and we got, I remember, we got played on K Rock. It was a big deal, man. But even then, that time, radio was important, but was really what was going on. I mean, there's a few of them that were getting a lot of attention, like, you know, like Corn, like Limp Escape. A lot of it was MTV, it was Total Plus Live, it was all that stuff that was huge back then.

Matt Cundill  9:01  
I misspoke, by the way. I think I meant to say K N A C,

Jason Rockman  9:05  
K N A C, or K rock, both of them. I mean, they, they were, you know, K N A C gave us a lot of love. K Rock, when they did, it was like you could feel the needle move, and I

Matt Cundill  9:15  
can't remember the station up in San Jose, but that was, that's another one that would, that would really count too.

Jason Rockman  9:20  
Oh yeah, I didn't think they were the ones they were responsible for helping to break the death tones too,

Matt Cundill  9:25  
yeah, because

Jason Rockman  9:25  
they're from Sacramento and all that area, for sure.

Matt Cundill  9:27  
Yeah, I miss those days, I do. You know, radio stations building bands and then taking ownership of bands and having having a relationship.

Jason Rockman  9:35  
Oh yeah, and I was really happy to be at Showm as a jock, when there was a little pocket where we were doing that again, and it felt really good. It felt really good. Everybody that was in place there, in terms of management and music director, were all very much focused on let's, if we're going to have to play Cancon, let's make it local stuff, and let's make it new stuff that we can push and we can have ownership on, and we did. We really, really did it, was it was special.

Matt Cundill  10:03  
I think there was a time you might have got dropped from a label and then picked up by EMI. Is that did that happen?

Jason Rockman  10:08  
Yeah, we got so we were on Sharon's label and Sharon's label got dropped, and it was right before the Osborne show went on MTV. We were like, we were in that house, we were around that whole thing about four months before they started shooting, and once that happened, they kind of lost their distribution deal with Priority Records, and we ended up signing to this record label called Belar Brothers that was distributed through EMI, and then right before the album came out, EMI dropped them as a subsidiary, so it was just non-stop disappointment, hard time,

Matt Cundill  10:41  
too, right? Because the industry is now changing, and Napster shows up, and

Jason Rockman  10:45  
then Napster shows up, stuff

Matt Cundill  10:47  
as stuff changes. Yeah,

Jason Rockman  10:49  
Napster shows up in 2000 I have kids showing up at our shows, asking us to sign their CDRs. They're like, "Hey, can you sign your record? I'm like, "Sure, where's where is it? And they're like, "Well, this I burned it off Limewire. I'm like, okay, sure. It was very strange time. And then you have a guy like Lars Ulrich, who's out there saying this is wrong, you know? Artists are getting robbed, and they're like, oh, he's just a rich rock star. And Lars was right, he was 100% right. We weren't, you know, music was getting devalued, and it, it now it is devalued. I mean, it's to the point where you go on to sell merch, that's where you make money. You don't make money with your records.

Matt Cundill  11:26  
Yeah, I might have suggested Napster was a good idea to art Alex Akis from Everclear. I didn't get another word in for the rest of the interview. He just went, he went to town, and he was right.

Jason Rockman  11:35  
I always say this: if they would have adopted the business model towards music the way they did with Netflix early on, they might have saved it, because now you know I have a family plan with Apple Music. Everybody, you know, both my kids, you know, I've got a 19 and a 22 year old, and myself and my wife, we're all on that plan. It's like 20 something bucks a month, and all the music you want, and I'm happy, and they're happy. If we would have done that early, we might have been able to save it, but everybody dug their heels in and didn't want to change, you know, didn't want to go with the way the industry was changing. And Netflix had the right idea, I mean, they did that change really early, and everyone's like, oh, seven bucks for Netflix, look at all this stuff we're getting, and now people are, don't give up their Netflix, even though it goes up every month, because there's so much content on there, and it's they should have done that a lot earlier than they did, and that was a problem, that was a big problem, but you know, hindsight is 2020 right?

Matt Cundill  12:29  
Yeah, nobody really knew what they were dealing with, but do you find today that there's Gen Z's out there who really want the physical music?

Jason Rockman  12:37  
Oh, yeah, yeah, well, especially, I mean, everybody wants vinyl, you know, and I see you know my kids and their friends, they thrift now because they can go to the thrift store and get a CD for, you know, $1 or $2 and they think it's so cool, and they're starting to collect CDs, and they're looking for vintage CD players, and then there's companies that are making CD players and portables again, and it's, I think, it's cyclical, like everything vinyl, you know, vinyl to come back now, it's it's something that people shop for regularly, and a lot of people have strong vinyl collections. I think people love the idea of having tangibles. They have something they can, they can, they can hold, they can feel. But there are other people that, like, I love buying records, and I have a lot of records, but I'm good with streaming too, because I can pull up a record and listen to it whenever I want. You know, if you, if you were a kid that went on the bus and liked having, you know, 10 cassettes in your backpack, because you wanted to listen to different stuff, and you don't have to do that anymore. If you grew up in that time, you're not against it, that's for sure. One

Matt Cundill  13:34  
of the things that the early part of the 2000s you know, gave us was musicians who would go on the radio? Kim Mitchell gets a show. I took a call one day from Miles Goodwin, I think, interested in a radio show. Little Stevie, little Stevie's underground garage was actually one of the first things I did in 2002 at home, was picked up the phone, and there's little Steven on the phone. Hey, you gonna run my show? I go, yes. I didn't tell anybody, I just said we were gonna do it, but you know, all that stuff, all that stuff is great. I don't see too many radio people going to pick up recording careers, not, not nearly that much. But for you, did you think, yeah, the radio, I think I'm gonna, I want to do that one day.

Jason Rockman  14:13  
Oh God, no, I fell into it, man. I was, I always loved radio. I think what I loved about radio was when we'd be on tour, and we would go into a market, and we would do a radio interview. I always enjoyed the banter, the back and forth, the live, that live feeling. It was kind of like being front man on stage, like you never know what can happen. And I love that, but I really did like going into radio stations on tour, because we always would go in and do interviews, like, we, you know, we told our publicist, like, "Please, if we're in the market, we want to go, and we, we did tons, and we developed relationships in that way, when we would show up in a market, the radio would bang us, because they liked us, and it just made such a difference. But I liked radio, but I never thought I would be a radio host, ever. I found out it was really weird, I was doing. Pop culture commentary stuff with Todd Vander Hayden on CTV on the new news. We were just talking about geek stuff and pop culture stuff, and I backed away from music and everything when I had my kids. I was done, and I was working with this guy, Patrick Charles, and Patrick had mentioned to me that they were looking for somebody on Virgin, I think. Overnight, I was in recording a slaves on dope album. My guitar playing, I had reconnecting. We're like, let's do another record, and I said, can we do just a quick voice demo or some like little thing? So I built like a radio show where I, you know, back sold some music, and I did a bunch of, a bunch of radio ads that were all in really offensive accents now, like people would get mad, like I did, like Patois taxi in a Haitian accent, and I did like an old Jewish resting home accent, like I did all these stupid accents, kind of like Jerky Boys, and I just sent this thing in, and the guy listened to it, and was like, you're not Virgin guy, you're more like a Shome guy, and he sent it to Shome, and at the time the PD heard it, and I got a call, and they were like, "Would you be interested in coming in for a read? And we're looking for someone to do overnights on the weekends, and I did it, and man, it was like I went started in December, and in the January they offered me a full-time gig, and it was kind of like out of nowhere, and I did not, did not ever expect to go into that, and then I ended up doing for like 14 years. It was nuts, and I really, really enjoyed it, because my whole thing was, I know music, I have a relationship with all these bands that are coming through town, I've toured with a lot of them, I know I can speak their language, so I decided to be the guy that was going to have integrity, know the music, be someone who had done it, and help bands. That's what I wanted to do the most. I wanted to help local bands, and I said to, you know, to the people there, like, give me a chance to shine on local and shine on new stuff. And they did, and it was great, because I got to, you know, I had full bands coming in and playing live at night on my show, like drums in the corner, basses, you know, they would play live through the broadcast mics. It was, it was a mess, but it was so much fun, and just the fact that I got away, you know, I got away with that, and got to be able to do it for as long as I did, it was great.

Matt Cundill  17:08  
That's great, I mean, that's something that's been going on at Showm right since its inception, you know. Super Tramp showing up at the door, I can remember Ian Anderson coming in and playing Christa Berg in the later years, no problem showing up, and then eventually I know Matthew Wood, program director, that would have no trouble just setting the keyboard up and plugging it in for whoever was going to come in and plug it in. So that's great that that tradition continues.

Jason Rockman  17:36  
The thing I realized about Showm is that Showm was such a love station, you know, it's, it's beloved, but it's also respected, and people really take their, their love for show them seriously. The people that love show them love show them, and there's such a rich history there. And I think it's what's great about it is that when we would give somebody a show them T-shirt, like I remember I gave 4t-shirts to the Tea Party, and the drummer from the Tea Party wore those shirts, I think he kept them all, and he wore them all the time. I saw him on the road and pictures as I'm doing interviews, and he had his show him shirt on. It was the old script logo, and it was just.. it's iconic, you know. And I, I really respect the station a lot, and I really, really respect the history behind that station. I think, like, anything they go through ups and downs, depending who's, you know, who's at the helm or who's tying the person who's at the helm's hands. We all know how that works with, with radio and corporate, and that, but show them will always survive. But I think sometimes it goes through these, these peaks and valleys, and I really think that I was there at a time when, when we were really going back to what we did back in the day, and that was a good feeling, because I would hear from people like you. You know, you're here at a really magical time, where you know it feels like the old show.

Matt Cundill  18:50  
Yeah, there's two great jobs in Montreal: you can play for the Canadians or you can work at Shell. Well, you know, I work

Jason Rockman  18:58  
with the Canadians, but I haven't - I haven't played for them. I don't think I would ever play for the Canadians, unless you know they were looking for a warm meat sack to put somewhere, but yeah, it was. Listen, man, it was.. it was a great time, and I have no, no regrets about working at Show. It was a.. it was a blast. It was an absolute blast.

Matt Cundill  19:14  
You were mentioning the Tea Party, is the drummer Jeff Burrows?

Jason Rockman  19:17  
Jeff Burrows, yes, yeah.

Matt Cundill  19:19  
So I remember that the debut record, because I was there at the time, but it caught on really well with Montreal, the river, and the subsequent single singles after that did very well. They actually played the 50th anniversary of the station too at the big party. I think that was something the band did.

Jason Rockman  19:39  
Yeah, I got.. I made that happen, by the way.

Matt Cundill  19:43  
Well, it's a great choice,

Jason Rockman  19:44  
just so you know. I helped to make this happen, because the Tea Party had been forgotten at Sean, which was crazy. And they were coming through town, they started playing again, and I reached out to them. I was like, guys, I got to have you in. It was almost met with no, because we had gone.. Such a different direction, and I said, "Listen, it's the fucking tea party. Can we get them in here? And they came in, and I started a really good relationship with them. When I asked them to play, I don't know if I don't - it was the 50th or was, or if it was too tall as retirement, but it was one of them.

Matt Cundill  20:13  
No, it was the 50th. I was there, I was invited to it. I think Moist did the Talls Retirement.

Jason Rockman  20:21  
All I know is that they were so happy to be a part of it, and they were happy that they, they were getting attention again, because we had kind of not given up on them, but they kind of like they're not a footnote, but they were a bit like on the back burner. I really, really pushed to get them back on show and back on our radar, because I had a lot of respect for those guys. We played a bunch of shows with them in like 9495 and they were just such good guys and such a great band.

Matt Cundill  20:47  
This is a tough question, because it's so loaded with so many different ways you can go with it and answer it, but I think you're the, you're one of the better people who could probably tackle it. And what makes Montrealers like particular bands and songs? I used to get work stuff all the time. Well, this is a big hit in Montreal, and doesn't work anywhere else, right? But mainly it's stuff from a farm, middle America, stuff from Ontario, and beyond that does well Toronto West, and just doesn't resonate in Montreal. Can you pinpoint the difference and what makes a hit in Montreal?

Jason Rockman  21:20  
I think Montrealers, they have a pretty refined music palette. Think a lot of it is because there's, you know, especially on the rock side of things, Prague is so prominent in our history, and I think we appreciate people that really can play. I think we, we appreciate talent. We have this really, really good relationship with the UK in terms of our music love, and so many of those bands came over and got accepted here first, before they got accepted anywhere else, especially in the 60s and 70s, and I think we just, we can smell a bit of the bullshit. There's a lot of active rock stuff. I remember going on tour, and there were certain bands that did so well in the Midwest, and so well everywhere else, and, and on either coasts, they just were non-existent. But it's almost like we, especially in Montreal, we have a refined palette when it comes to music, and I think we're, I think that's exactly what it, what it is. I think we're very, we're a bit picky, but when we like something, we like it, and we show up, but sometimes things will just won't fly, especially in Quebec. I mean, you know, not just Montreal, but Quebec in general, like it just doesn't fly. But when it does, they're diehards, and they're there forever. They're there for the long haul. Target didn't work here, Krispy Kreme didn't work here, Taco Bell didn't work here. There's so many things that didn't work here that worked so well everywhere else. We're just different, and I think you got to embrace that, and when, when Montreal chooses you, you're happy because they're there for the long haul.

Matt Cundill  22:48  
How did your first few shows go?

Jason Rockman  22:49  
Pretty good. I was very nervous. It's like, you know, when you start at any job, you're nervous, but radio, you know, it's funny because I, I'm at a news station now, and I just did a couple of my first shows there. Same thing came back as I felt I when I walked into that booth, I felt the same way as I did the first time I went on a show. I remember I was doing overnight and the guy who was training me, I asked if he could stay with me for the entire night, and just because I was so nervous, and then I was fine, but it was, I kept worrying that I was going to swear, because I listen, I swear all the time, and that was my.. and I never did, knock on wood, I never swore on air. I had a couple people that did, that were invited, but it was.. it was this thing where I kept having these dreams that I was going to swear, or that something was going to go wrong, or that the board was going to go down, and.. and all those things happened, but the first couple were very nerve-wracking, and I had my mom listening, you know, my mom. I was on from midnight to 530 and my mom had her little transistor radio that she dug out somewhere with the one, you know, the one ear piece, the ones people used to listen to baseball on.

Matt Cundill  23:51  
My, yeah, my grandmother was the same,

Jason Rockman  23:54  
so she had one of those, and she was listening, and she, she was like, oh, you don't talk often, but I'm listening, and it was, it was a weird time, but it was very.. I was super happy, because it was.. I was working at a station that.. that I grew up loving, and the fact that I was there was like, 'wow, this is nuts. Like, I can't believe I'm doing this.

Matt Cundill  24:09  
And today, do you have the radio dream, which is where the record runs out in your dream, and you wake up, and there's dead air?

Jason Rockman  24:16  
I haven't had that in a long time.

Matt Cundill  24:18  
Okay, a

Jason Rockman  24:18  
long time, but I had many of those, I went through that, you know, where I had to go and get CDs in my car, because we had no music, I had to play everything on CD, because the tower went down, or something went down, and I remember just going and just playing whatever I wanted for like three hours, and it was just great, it was fun. I went to the library, you know, I was like, oh, let me go grab some stuff I have downstairs, and it was, it was a lot of fun, but man, it's nerve wracking.

Matt Cundill  24:44  
How did you know, and when did you know? And I mentioned this because it has popped up on a few other interviews that you've done. When did you know to stop drinking?

Jason Rockman  24:52  
I got sober july 25 1992 I think. I just got sick and tired of being sick and tired. Do

Matt Cundill  24:58  
you say 1992

Jason Rockman  25:00  
Yeah, I've been so over 33 years. This summer will be, well, july 25 hopefully will be 34 years.

Matt Cundill  25:09  
So, I didn't expect to have a follow-up question, but how hard is it to be the front man of a band that's in bars every night throughout the 90s? And because I was the opposite, I was like 1992 this is great, I'm gonna do my show on show, I'm gonna get off at midnight, and I'm gonna go to St. Denis,

Jason Rockman  25:26  
right,

Matt Cundill  25:27  
and I'm gonna be out all night, and I can't say that that was all didn't serve me well, and wasn't all that great, but it was a lot of fun. How did you manage that lifestyle for so long? Because it's hard,

Jason Rockman  25:39  
yeah, it is, it was, it was challenging. It was challenging to be surrounded, you know. You're talking about Disturbed, and all these bands.. like I was on tour with a lot of these bands. You know, I was on Oz Fest with Pantera. You know, I saw.. if you know anything about Pantera, they're legendary for their drinking, for their partying. And I was.. you know, I was with a lot of those guys backstage on a summer tour that was just like a traveling rock star summer camp, you know, where they were just.. I saw chairs like fly past me, like out of a out of a trailer, you know, and I'm like, what am I.. what is this? But I was able to kind of find where I fit in. I'm in a 12 step program, so I ended up going to a lot of meetings in different cities, and I found my place, you know. It was tough, it was really, really tough, but I wasn't white-knuckling at all. Like, by the time I got, you know, into the heavy touring and stuff, I had had a bit of time under my belt. I don't think we really hit the road until I was about, I was at least a year sober, so I was okay. But, um, but it was challenging. There was nights where it was like, oh man, like the worst part for me was like, you would just see the change of what happened, you know? You'd be with people like from like 910 and like around 1112 they just you're talking to a different person and that's hard I still that still happens now if I go to a party and you know I'm there long enough I'll see the change that happens people that are drinking and it's it's just part of it you know it can it can work in your favor depending on where you are in your life but it's yeah it's it was a challenge. It was definitely a challenge, but it's now the idea of drinking, like that decision was non-negotiable. It's like I always talk about alcoholism, you take alcohol out of the equation, you still have the isms, and that's why I still work a program, and still try to keep my feet on the ground with that kind of stuff, because it's, it's very challenging in all the other aspects of your life, like, you can be a dry drunk and not drink, but you can be a miserable bastard.

Matt Cundill  27:24  
Did you ever tour with Machine Head?

Jason Rockman  27:25  
No, I've interviewed Rob. I never, never toured with Together, actually. They were on Oswald's, I think, the year before us.

Matt Cundill  27:32  
Okay, that's one night I remember on the bus. It was a long night, because, yeah,

Jason Rockman  27:37  
that's the thing, right?

Matt Cundill  27:39  
Don't get on the bus,

Jason Rockman  27:41  
there's a lot of reasons not to get on the bus, but look, I was in a band, like I saw all kinds of stuff, you know, I was part of all kinds of fun times, but I was never one to fall back into it, and I'm really grateful for that, but I was, I had a really good, you know, I had a good support group around me, none of the guys in my band were really into drinking at the time, like the bass player and the drummer were practically sober. The guitar player would have a beer once in a while, but no one was really into it. They were, they were pretty, pretty straight-laced guys, which was, you know, but there were times where I was on tour with other bands where it's like, "Wow, man, these guys are like these guys are really going for it.

Matt Cundill  28:18  
So, your time at Showme, let me just go back a sec. When you said you didn't want someone to leave the room when you were doing the show, just on the first night, was that a show or CJD?

Jason Rockman  28:27  
That was a show. It was a show.

Matt Cundill  28:29  
Yeah, it would have been funny if you said, I don't want you to leave. No, no, I'm worried about the boogeyman downstairs in the basement of..

Jason Rockman  28:35  
I was worried about hitting the wrong button, and I just.. I had just said, can you stay with me, and he was like, yeah, no problem. So they, I think they ended up,

Matt Cundill  28:44  
who stayed with you?

Jason Rockman  28:45  
He was my producer on CJD, when I did that CJD show for years. It's just, it's escaping me now. But he was a great guy, he trained me on the board, he was a great dude. I just, his name is escaping me, I think it was, I'm gonna say it was Piero or Pablo, it was with a P,

Matt Cundill  29:00  
okay?

Jason Rockman  29:00  
And he was very, you know, like he was a super guy, but he was like an operator that did stuff all over the station, and Pietro, there we go, that's his name, Pietro, and yeah, I was just, I'm really glad he was there with me, really glad, because that first night was terrifying.

Tara Sands (Voiceover)  29:17  
Sound design of the Sound Off podcast is inspired by Mega Tracks, the sound of entertainment, providing music and sound effects for radio, podcasts, and media professionals. Mega Tracks is your one-stop shop for library and custom tracks. Start your music search now at Mega tracks.com The sounding off newsletter delivered free to your inbox, featuring Matt's media hacks, hot takes, and retakes. Sign up now at Sounding Off dot news.

Matt Cundill  29:51  
So, here's something incredible, and I know it's incredible, because I know so many people have not been able to do this, but this just sort of reads. Like an easy transition in a resume, where you can go from doing rock radio, and now you're gonna do talk. I can't tell you how hard that is for some people to go to, just, you know, back selling and doing short breaks, to doing entire talk segments. So, tell me about the show on CJD, and why you jumped into that, and who encouraged you to jump into that world, because it's wild.

Jason Rockman  30:22  
I did a show on CJD while I was at Sean. I did that for I had an idea for, because I was doing so many interviews at Joan, that I said I'd love to do a show called On the Record, where I could actually talk to someone about their, their history in music, and their, their whole like story in music, from beginning to, you know, the first song they listened to, like a lot of cliche questions, but it really worked, because I gave people questions. I said, this is going to be, you know, I want to know about the first song you remember hearing, want to know about the first album you bought, first concert you went to, favorite band, like all that stuff. And then what I would do is, I would use those as like kind of goal posts or benchmarks to build conversations around, and that show lasted for about two and a half years at CJD, and it was really, really fun to do, and I had some incredible guests on that show, like I had I had Nikki Six on that show, I had Josh Groban, I had Rock Voisine, I had Steely Dan, Chuck D from Public Enemy, George Thorogood, like I had a lot of guests, I think I did 150 shows, about maybe, yeah, about that, but 150 and and then it just came to a time where they made a decision that they wanted to get something else on there that brought in a bit more revenue than spending on me, so that kind of changed, but it was, it was different, but I liked it, because it was like a long form interview, was kind of like podcasting, same idea,

Matt Cundill  31:41  
and I'd be remiss if I didn't mention right now that you also have the Rockman Power Hour, which is a podcast which kind of does the same talks to musicians.

Jason Rockman  31:49  
Yeah, we talked to like public figures and actors and stuff, and that what's great about that is that it's really my own thing, where I don't, you know, I don't have anybody to like, I do want to want to do it, and like right now, we're on a bit of a break because we're doing another studio and we're trying to maybe bring live in a little bit more than having to do it through Zoom or like this, but but it's fun to be able to do it and just do whatever you want, like not have anybody say, "Well, you know, you should do this, have this guest on, or that doesn't fit. I remember once I on the CJD show, I interviewed one of the pointer sisters, and someone said, well, that's really off brand for you. Was

Matt Cundill  32:22  
it Anita Pointer?

Jason Rockman  32:24  
No, yes, I think it was Anita Pointer. I think so. Yeah, yeah. And I remember it was.. I don't know if it was Anita Pointer, I'm saying that, but I don't know, it was one of them. And I remember the one of the people that worked at the station told me that was off brand for me, and I was like, why? I mean, it's a different show than show them, and they're like, yeah, but like, you shouldn't be talking to someone from the Pointer Sisters. I'm like,

Matt Cundill  32:45  
what's gonna happen?

Jason Rockman  32:46  
What's, you know what I mean? What I'm gonna, you know, it's like, stupid thing, but, um, but yeah, I think now, like, because I just started week some summer replacement at the beat, and that's very different, that's a completely different beast than what I was used to, but it's fun. It's fun, because I think when you're, when you're someone that likes to connect with people, and you like challenges, look, you've done this long enough, you know. You never know what life's gonna throw at you, you know. And I'm 55 I never thought I would do radio again. I hadn't done radio in three years. I was fine with not doing radio. I really like what I do now. I do a ton of things, I'm busy, but I got a call and they were looking for someone for the summer, and would you be interested? And I was like, really the beat, and I met with them, and I liked the PD, and I liked what he was looking for, and I liked where he came from, and he was a real radio guy, and he was like, I, you know, you have formats, you know it, you get it, you've done it, and I was like, okay, I'll give it a shot, and I'm into the summer now, doing it, and it's fun, it's really, really fun, it's new music, it's different, it's, it's a different demo, 100% different demo than show, completely different, but it's fun, it's a lot of fun, and it's light, you know. Show them serious sometimes, as much as it's fun. It's there's a serious thing behind it, you know, where you feel like I don't know.

Matt Cundill  34:09  
Rob Kemp is the PD who hired you. Rob Camp has done just about every job in Montreal Radio, from, from, he did the traffic, he did CJD, I think he's done some stuff on, on what was the mix, then you know, and he did mornings too at Shm, at one point, as well as a bunch of other shifts. Yeah, he, he'd know radio informatics, so good hire, Rob.

Jason Rockman  34:31  
I mean, listen, I, I first was kind of like, I don't know, you know, I'm not sure, I don't, I don't need to do this now, I'm really, I don't, I'm busy, you know, but my wife and I talked about it, and she helps me make all the decisions when it comes to anything professional, like she - she usually represents me when I'm going in anywhere, she does that too, and I just, she was like, I think you should do it, I think you should give it a shot, and I did my first few shows, and I was like, this is a lot of fun, man, this is completely different,

Matt Cundill  34:59  
it. It moves like the format moves right,

Jason Rockman  35:02  
yeah. It moves, and it gives me a chance to listen to stuff that I hadn't really necessarily listened to. And a lot of times I would, in my mind, I'm like, "Oh, I just.. I'm not that guy, I don't fit that. And then I listen to the station, like they're having a lot of fun, man. They're having a lot of fun, and they're the number one station in the city, you know? It's there's a lot of people listening to that station, and it was, it was cool. I did my first couple of shows, and I was like, this is, this is cool, and I got great feedback. I got a ton of, ton of really positive feedback, and I didn't know, man. I thought people were gonna be like, "What are you doing? You're going to be makes no sense, you're the rock band. Well, it's

Matt Cundill  35:39  
still, it's still a great name, it still fits. I know you have to explain the name, but that is your real name.

Jason Rockman  35:44  
It is. It's kind of nice to just be Jason Rockman and be like, hey, you know, I've listened to some of the song. I'm like, you know, there's some good stuff here. It's not just.. I think I had to have a bit of an open mind because I was very much like, oh no, I'm not gonna like this. And I really do, I really do. I really enjoy what they play in terms of where it's who it's going out to, the people that are enjoying it are are having fun, and it's the same way. Like, I'm really into movies, right? I go see a lot of movies, and the biggest problem I have is movie critics, people that want to criticize and tear a movie apart. When you know how much work goes into a movie, especially film, you know, there's so much work that goes into film years and years and years and years to be able to just watch something and go, "Oh, that sucked. No, I think you have to work a little harder, and I think you have to give it, and you also have to take into account that not every movie is made for everybody. And I think when you have that kind of an open spirit about it, you see things differently. And I, man, like that's it. I listen to stuff, I'm like that Teddy Swim songs actually really good, and that weekend song's actually a banger, and I was surprised. I surprised myself at how much I actually enjoyed what I was listening to. I was like, this is really good, like, but I've always been open-minded, you know? I'm the guy that would show up when he would do those show him roundups every year, like, oh, what's your favorite song, what do you like, and what's this, and I would always have this oddball stuff, where people like, really, like, oh yeah, Public Enemy, and they're like, what, what's that?

Matt Cundill  37:05  
Yeah, I mean, I think a lot of people get hung up on the format and what you're doing, but it's still radio,

Jason Rockman  37:12  
yes,

Matt Cundill  37:13  
and just understanding the format, I mean, I did country for a few months, right, it's okay, we're all going to live, it's all going to be good. I don't think you really care about being about the format until you're a music director, a program director, where you have to wonder if the song is going to fit into the listener's ears. The personality, listen, Ken Connors, I thought he was a rock guy, he just moved right on over to to pop records, absolutely no problem, he's a great

Jason Rockman  37:39  
broadcaster,

Matt Cundill  37:40  
but I think that's the point. If you're a great broadcaster, it's just about a microphone. It really doesn't matter about, you know, the records, because also you're surrounded by hundreds of years of radio experience in that building.

Jason Rockman  37:53  
Oh yeah, at one point almost everybody on that station I've worked with, it maybe not directly, but like we were in the same building, I think. Everybody, so we all bounce around. I just never thought I would be the guy that would bounce around, because in my mind I was like, I'm a showm guy, and that's it. There's no way I would ever go anywhere else. There's no other place for me. It's like I don't broadcast in French, so you know, I don't go to any LG, and then the rouge, and then the hidden.. like it doesn't make sense for me. I'm an English broadcaster. If I'm not on CJD or I'm not on show them, where would I go, and lo and behold, I ended up at the beat, and that's it's kind of interesting, you know, it's you never know, and yeah, it's crazy,

Matt Cundill  38:31  
so if you identify that way, it must have been hard getting let go,

Jason Rockman  38:35  
no, not at all, by the time I got let go, and it's funny, if you, and I know, you know, Matt, when I got let go, and we've all been let go from radio, I mean, it's anybody that's been in the business long enough has either let themselves go or has gotten let go or knows what it's like. I knew the day would come, one day I didn't see it coming, but I welcomed it, because I really, at that point, I wanted to change. I was really ready for a change, like I had mentioned a lot of what I loved about Showm kind of was gone, like our program director, Andre Lely, that was there, that was a big part of the change at Show, had passed away from cancer, it was really devastating for a lot of us, especially the ones that were close to him, and then our Music Director P Card, who I really like, and I'm still friends with today, he was let go, so a lot of, lot of people that I worked with were no longer there, and you know, after Covid, the building was, it just, it got heavy, you know, and I needed to change, but the problem was I was working at a place where everybody was telling me, why would you ever want to leave that job, like you said it when we started chatting, or in this conversation, there's two jobs you want to Montreal, play for the Canadians or be on show. So, in my mind, it was like, I can't feel like this, like I'm an asshole, like I've got to want to work here. And when I got let go, it was june 14, three years ago. The summer is just starting. I do so many other things, you know, not only the podcast, but I work with, like, five comic cons. Like, I, I love covering Fantasia Film Festival, Ocean, like all these festivals. I was really ready for a summer of, like, you know, not having to go and work seven to midnight. I was on evenings for a long time, and that was the other thing, I didn't really move there, you know. I kind of was, I kind of stayed where I was. I just started doing some morning replacement, and I was like, finally, like, this doing something different. It was great. And then they were like, you're the morning replacement guy for like, probably at least 10 weeks a year, and I was okay, I can live with that, some change. And then that happened, and I knew it wasn't my PD who was making the decision, it was Toronto that made the decision. They just cut evening programming, and it was a bummer, but I remember getting let go, and then calling Matt right away and asking him, like, are you okay, because I know that was probably hard to do, because we were with the, you know, that you're always, it's uncomfortable when you're on Zoom, and the HR person's there, you can't really have a conversation, because they just kind of have, tell you what's going on, hand you off to the HR person, and they tell you, you know, what you're getting, and this and that. And I called him right after, and I said, "Are you okay? And he was like, "Why are you calling me to see if I'm okay? I'm like, "Because I'm sure that was hard, and he's like, "I can't believe you're asking me if I'm okay, like. And we were okay immediately, and I had not.. and I've been in that building so many times I have nothing against them, you know, but I didn't take it hard. I was, I welcomed it, because I was, dude, I was in music, man. Okay, nothing is nothing is as bad as I knew I was getting paid for 10 months. I was like, this is okay, I'm gonna be all right, I'll work the next day, and, and I got a job, probably within the first six months. I took some time.

Jason Rockman  41:42  
I had a bunch of people in the industry that told me, "Don't rush, take the take the time that was allotted to you and figure out what you want to do. And I ended up getting a job in sales that I still do now, that I absolutely love. And I work with bands, I do touring merch, do merch for events. So, for me, I'm still in it, you know. So, no, I wasn't. I wasn't upset. I wasn't upset,

Matt Cundill  42:02  
by the way. Congratulations, you survived Winnipeg when you went there for their Comic Con. I'm sorry I could not be there to come and meet you. I would have, I would have loved to have met you. I was away that particular weekend, but

Jason Rockman  42:12  
yeah, I think I discussed Winnipeg with you, and we've discussed the Bills a bit.

Matt Cundill  42:17  
Yeah, well, tell me about the Comic Con circuit first, because I know there is a big one, the voice of this particular show, it's Tara Sands, and she's a voice of Pokémon, and one of the things she does is she's a Comic Con festival, signing autographs like all the time, and I am, I don't understand this culture. Tell me about it. If

Jason Rockman  42:34  
you've never been to a Comic Con, I tell people, because I'm a spokesperson for five of them, so I have to, I have to sell people on why they need to come to a comic con. It's really, it's a celebration of pop culture. If you're a sports fan, like we're Bills fans, you go to a Bills game, you celebrate in the stands with like-minded people, you wear your colors, and you feel great. And when you know it's just great to be with these people and to celebrate, and that's what a con is like for people that are pop culture fans. They're just, they're able to be with like-minded people, they're able to meet some of their heroes, they're able to get autographs, pictures, there's Q and A's, there's concerts, there's all kinds of stuff that goes on, like the one in Montreal, we take over the whole Palais de Congrats, we have like 70,000 people that come over the weekend, it's nuts, so they're they're special, you know, and my job with, I've been doing that for, I think, 16 years for Montreal, and subsequently with all the other ones that came after, and it's a blast. And Winnipeg, yeah, Winnipeg is the last show that we do every year in October, like we're doing it this year on Halloween weekend. So, yeah, I survived Winnipeg. Winnipeg is rough, man. I remember leaving Montreal, and it was like 20 degrees. I get to Winnipeg, and it's snowing, and I'm like, what is going on, but I've been.. I knew Winnipeg from the 90s from touring, so I played at the Royal Albert. I, you know, I slept at the Royal Albert. I knew Winnipeg, I knew what Winnipeg was all about, but it's.. yeah, it's.. it's the fans there, though, man, are nuts when it comes to the cons. Like, they show up, and they are ready to have a good weekend, man. It's like they're there.

Matt Cundill  44:04  
It's a wild routing system. I mean, if you have to book concerts, you have to find somebody who's willing to drive eight hours from Minneapolis or the next place. I mean, if you've toured the country, so you know this, it's a long haul from Thunder Bay to Winnipeg. Winnipeg, your next stop might be, you know, Saskatoon or Brandon, if you're really, really lucky. It's, it's, it's firmly entrenched in the middle of nowhere, and there's 750,000 people who all suffer from Stockholm syndrome. There

Jason Rockman  44:34  
it's a, it's a, it's a different market than any other market that we do shows at, but it's become like used to be Montreal and Ottawa, what's our second biggest show, and now I think Winnipeg has become our second biggest show, which is crazy. Winnipeg grew really fast.

Matt Cundill  44:51  
How many do you do? Do you do like a bunch of sphere for the country, just the major cities,

Jason Rockman  44:55  
or our group have Montreal, Ottawa, Quebec, and Winnipeg?

Matt Cundill  44:58  
Nice, the

Jason Rockman  44:58  
shows that we have. So we do them every year, you know. Montreal is in July, Ottawa's in September, and then we have Quebec and Winnipeg in October. So that one con season starts, which is like few weeks away from Montreal, it just rolls, you know. There's a little lull in between, that's when the festivals and Fantasia happen, and I'm involved with all that stuff, man. So it's my summers get really busy.

Matt Cundill  45:20  
I'm not surprised you're a fan of the Bills. I think probably the era that you grew up and watched NFL football probably led to it. But how did you become a fan of the Bills?

Jason Rockman  45:30  
I was a Bears fan for from like 85 up until maybe three years ago. Three years ago I was a Bears fan, and then my wife wanted to take her dad and her brother to an NFL game, so we're like, "Why don't we go see a game in Buffalo? They were playing the Raiders, and I remember going to that game, saying, "Maybe I'll get a Raiders jersey, they're pretty cool. I never thought I would get a Bills jersey, and then I went to the game, and we drove to Buffalo, we parked, we tailgated, we, we did all the Buffalo stuff, like we went to Wegmans, we like all the Buffalo stuff that you're supposed to do for a game, you know, watch people crash tables, like we, you know, they did, they had the shot ski, and they were nice enough to put Dr Pepper in mine, and

Matt Cundill  46:18  
oh, nice, yeah, that's good, the shot ski, did you, I've done that one. Yes,

Jason Rockman  46:23  
yeah. And it was like it was just so much fun. I looked at my wife, I'm like, I think I'm ready to cheer for a different team, because, like, you know, the Bears - it wasn't the team that I grew, like, the team I was, the, you know, the Super Bowl Bears. Oh,

Matt Cundill  46:36  
listen, I was all about that team too. That was a great, they were so much fun to watch. I've never seen so much fun watching defense.

Jason Rockman  46:43  
Yeah, and I mean, I have - I have that entire season on DVD. Like, they released the every game is on TV, like I watched them sometimes. It's crazy. They weren't

Matt Cundill  46:50  
great games,

Jason Rockman  46:51  
no. But Walter Payton was just magic, you know? Watching him was magic, and yeah, I just started cheering for the Bills, and I'm like a die-hard Bills fan now. I like, I love the Bills, I love Josh Allen. I love the vibe there. I have a.. I bought a seat back from Highmark when they were tearing down the stadium. I went and I bought it. I have a seat back from Highmark Stadium. It was 100 bucks, and I was like, this is amazing. I'm gonna get Josh Allen to sign this one day. Rules, so I have.. I love the Bills. I think they're great, and I love the fans, and I think every year I'm like this, you know, that had been that had been a fan, I'm like this Josh Allen is amazing, I know he's inconsistent sometimes, but he's just so special, he's such a special player, and that fan base is like, it reminds me of the Canadians fan base, like they're just dires forever,

Matt Cundill  47:38  
and there is a community in there, and it is a little bit like Comic-Con, and there are events, you know. For instance, I went to.. if you go on the road, they've already got events set up in places. Game Day Hospitality will put it on, and you can go and eat and hang out with other Bills fans. I did the drive from Winnipeg to Kansas City for the AFC Championship. That is my third AFC Championship game with the Bills, by the way.

Jason Rockman  48:00  
Wow,

Matt Cundill  48:01  
so. so I mean, I'm just an absolutely huge fan. They're going in the new stadium. Have you made plans for a game this year?

Jason Rockman  48:07  
Yes, I don't have the specific date yet, but I know that are where are you now? You're Montreal.

Matt Cundill  48:14  
I'm in Quebec. I mean, I'm in the Laurentians.

Jason Rockman  48:16  
Okay, so there's a donut place in Montreal that I want to give a shout out to because they're huge Bills fans, Bernie's Dean and his dad are huge Bills fans, like they have Bill flags up in their donut shop and everything, and I do this movie retro cinema event thing like six times a year, and they're our donut sponsor, and they do a movie theme donut for us. We've made plans that 26 of us are going to go to a game and we're sorting that out now. Dean's dad's already been in touch with ticketing that he knows somebody at Highmark, and he's looking at getting us a block of tickets, and we're doing a trip, so we just don't know which one. But we're going to one of the home games, 100% I just hope it's going to be early and not too late in season, because I haven't gone to a cold, cold game yet. Have you been to a game where it's like miserably cold or not?

Matt Cundill  49:02  
No, I was that one of the AFC Championship games was damp in the early 90s, and I had these two guys beside me who said, 'You guys need to bring in some cardboard, and we took the cardboard and we stood on it, and our feet stayed warm, because, and we were up at the top too, so that helped out a lot,

Jason Rockman  49:21  
so you had people giving you survival tips,

Matt Cundill  49:23  
yeah, and it worked. Cardboard, it really does work.

Jason Rockman  49:26  
I go, I went to Niagara Falls like a couple weeks ago for a comic con, and I'm going back in October, and I was hoping that there would be a Bills game, but they're playing like the week before and the week after. I think I'm there on the bye week, I'm not going to see a game, but at that time, because I was like, well, if I'm there, you know, I'm going to a con, going to this horror convention. I could just shoot over, because it's so quick, it's so easy, you know, to shoot over there. Yeah, I'm definitely going to go to something. I know I don't really want to go see them anywhere else, but it's usually cheaper to go see them somewhere else. But I do want to go to the new stadium this year. I have to, like, I got an inaugural, I have the inaugural season T-shirt and everything I bought when I was there a couple weeks ago. Yeah, I love going to Buffalo, because that's where you can get a bunch of shit, like if you go into Dick's, you can buy stuff, Buffalo stuff, they're like it's hard to find Bill's gear anywhere else unless you buy it online, but it's fun to go somewhere where they have it, or the Buffalo store, I don't know if you've been there before, this is amazing, there's so much stuff,

Matt Cundill  50:16  
Wegmans, you mentioned Wegmans, which is a grocery chain for Western New York, but they also have outlets in places like, you know, Raleigh, and where they sell only Bills gear. If you want to buy NFL gear at Wegmans in Raleigh, North Carolina,

Jason Rockman  50:30  
hell yeah,

Matt Cundill  50:31  
yeah, it's.. and the Bills, by the way, have a huge fan base, as we've discovered, that's actually down in that particular area, for whatever reason, I don't know, but the data shows that.

Jason Rockman  50:40  
Well, they're a really fun team to cheer for. I think I've really enjoyed it, and I've got a lot of my friends that are Bills fans, especially musicians like the drummer from Mastodon, and I are Bills fans. That band go Jira, their tour manager, Taylor, is a huge Bills fan. I got him an assigned Knox jersey for his wedding. We went to his wedding last year, and I got him a signed Knox jersey, and he was so happy, and it's just.. it's just fun to find people that are like Comic-Con. It's like you find like-minded people that are into what you're into, and it's just.. I love football. I grew up playing football, so for me, I've always loved having a team to cheer for. The idea of switching teams felt really weird. I like, I literally was like, I had a hard time with it. I mean, oh,

Matt Cundill  51:24  
don't worry about it. Listen, this was the Bears. They're still doing the Monsters of the Midway thing up until a couple of years ago. They finally figured out that they need somebody on offense. Yeah, and you know, now they're just, they're just beginning to put it together. Now they're gonna have an off season because I think their quarterback, Caleb Williams isn't, he's on the cover of the Madden for this year, so that's a jinx.

Jason Rockman  51:45  
Listen, I, I really wanted to die a Bears fan. I mean, look, I'll die a Habs fan, that'll never change, but

Matt Cundill  51:52  
you're allowed to cheer for, you can still cheer for the Bears.

Jason Rockman  51:55  
I still have a Walter Payton action figure that's like this big that I always have, where I podcast is always next to me, like to me, and Jim McMahon. Like, I just got a Jim McMahon autograph from my.. I have a buddy has this company called Frozen Pond, and they do like all.. it's all sports memorabilia, and he had an old Jim McMahon autograph, and I was like, I need that, like to me, that team, that was.. they were, they were pretty special, you know? The

Matt Cundill  52:18  
blame is on the quarterback and the coach, I think, for not winning more.

Jason Rockman  52:21  
Yeah, yeah. Well, listen, they won that one. That's what I remember, because that's when I was playing football, and it was a huge deal, man.

Matt Cundill  52:29  
You got your pick of the games this year. Bills do play the Bears, and it's going to be at high mark. So,

Jason Rockman  52:33  
yeah, maybe I'll go to that one. If you're

Matt Cundill  52:35  
up for it,

Jason Rockman  52:36  
if I'm not mistaken, it's later, right?

Matt Cundill  52:38  
That's that's going to be later. I've got Chargers Week Three is the one I've got circled, but again, bank account pending on that, because who knows what prices will be nuts this year.

Jason Rockman  52:48  
They took, like, I think it's like 10,000 seats less in there. Like, I don't understand why you would put less instead of.. I don't get that. I mean, you know the fan base is there, you know the demands there. Why would you put less seats in, not more, that doesn't make sense to me, and I know it's the stadium, and I just don't get that.

Matt Cundill  53:06  
I think there's probably.. I think it comes down to dynamic pricing, and as if you can run out of seats at the top quicker, you can raise the price of the ones below faster.

Jason Rockman  53:16  
Faster, sure, sure, makes sense.

Matt Cundill  53:18  
Dynamic pricing. Everybody, welcome to it,

Jason Rockman  53:20  
but it's worth it if you've never been to a game before. Any NFL game is worth going to, but Bill's getting is pretty special. But at the NFC, an NFL game live is never the only thing I haven't seen is an NBA game, and I'm dying to do that. That's that's got to be happening in the next couple years.

Matt Cundill  53:34  
Jason, thanks so much for doing this. I really appreciate you taking the time. I just been great. We talked radio, but we talked a lot of pop culture too, and music from the 90s. What a, what a trip.

Jason Rockman  53:43  
Well, it's fun to talk to somebody that I've heard of for a long time, but never actually got a chat with. So, I'm glad that we, I'm glad that we did this. And thanks for asking me, I appreciate it.

Tara Sands (Voiceover)  53:57  
Another Sound Off Media Company podcast,