Nails Mahoney: Be Memorable or Be Replaceable

Matt Cundill  0:00  
I love what you're doing on the internet. You're asking all the right questions, and you're asking the hard questions, you know. So, there's not a lot of people doing what you're doing these days,

Nails Mahoney  0:09  
or not a lot of people who are stupid enough to keep doing what I'm doing these days. Maybe there's that as well, but that's what I know. It's what I do. It's who I am. So, how can you? You can't deny that. And you get to a certain stage in life, we just go screw it, I'm just going to do it anyway. This is what I do. I pretend

Matt Cundill  0:26  
what makes being a radio presenter so hard these days.

Nails Mahoney  0:30  
The radio presenters themselves, they overthink everything. Oh, they, that's very general, isn't it? They all overthink everything. We've been taught to overthink everything because the word content appeared in our lives and that changed how we progressed and how we developed and we went from DJs being presenters, being hosts, being announcers to being content creators on the radio, that's a totally different mind shift, and not everybody is a talented content creator, some are just good music presenters or talk show hosts, not necessarily content creators. An awful lot of pressure when that word is is thrown in there, and especially because most people aren't trained to be a content creator. How do you train that? Where's the training for? Where's the, where's the course? Where's the class? Where's the school teaching content creation for radio? It's not there.

Matt Cundill  1:20  
It's funny, because most of the time that question gets asked and the finger gets pointed at the radio industry, the business of radio, a program director, just about everywhere else, but the answer you gave.

Nails Mahoney  1:34  
Well, we have to point fingers at somebody, don't we? We can't blame ourselves, we have to blame somebody else, because then I'd be in the wrong, and it's not blame, it's just the way the culture has developed. Cultures develop, whether it's a national culture, whether it's societal culture or an industry culture, they just develop, and that's what's happened. We feed off each other. It's like the mass consciousness: one person does one thing, and we all go along with it, unconsciously or consciously, but somebody drives it. There's always that one person, that one atom that drives it, and this just took hold, and a lot of it's down to the fact that, yeah, 20 years ago we didn't have the social media that we have now, so that drove it, but it drove it in a direction that it's like the car going out of control. We're doing 9090 clicks an hour down the highway, we're not really sure where we're going, we're just hoping we don't hit a wall, that's what it seems like to me, and from what people talk to me about when I'm talking to presenters, there's no clear path. Like it used to be, what's prep? We said, "Bake sure you prep before your show, and the presenters say, "Yo, what exactly is prep? Now it's, "What the hell is content, anyway? If we don't know, they just don't know.

Matt Cundill  2:37  
Yeah, you never know what's going to hit. Oh, can you make this viral? It's like, no, we don't really know what's what's going to go viral, and when.

Nails Mahoney  2:44  
No, there's no way of knowing back when, when we do auditorium testing on music, you tested your songs, you had your 1000 people, 500 people, whatever was your sample size was, and they told you whether that song was good, they told you whether they liked that music presenter in the morning, you got the facts, ha, right, we have it, we have it now, but we don't. We send stuff out, and we don't know if it's going to hit, especially on socials. If you hit, if you're thrown out, so we do a silly dance, or we pretend we're a comedian, and we do funny skits that aren't really that funny, but, or we copy a viral hit that somebody else might have done two days ago, and we try and emulate theirs, because they got 70,000 views on it, so I'll get 70,000 views. We don't really know why we're doing it, which is a shame. It's a shame, because I think it's, I think it's watering down your natural talent, because everybody has a natural talent, right?

Matt Cundill  3:33  
One of the things, in, you know, the pool of radio presenters that are out there, there's a much larger divide between those who are playing the hits, back announcing, front selling, cue card reading, and those who are creating content. It is the chasm has just grown over the last 30 years. Is there a future for those who are reading cue cards and back selling?

Nails Mahoney  3:57  
Yeah, well, I'm not going to predict it, but I think there's a danger for them that they could get sidelined and marginalized, because 20 years ago, 30 years ago, 15 years ago, we didn't have as much entertainment. Now everything is entertainment, everything - your TV, your social media, you put on your computer - everything is entertainment, and has to be entertaining, has to be entertaining, otherwise we're gone. So, if you're this person who's just playing the hits, you say just doing the format, rolling the music, writing the intro, reading the line of cards, where do you stand out? You could stand out because you're not doing the mad content stuff, you could stand out for that, but what's your selling point? What are you? What I hate the word, I still can't think of a better word, but what is your brand? What are you, who am I listening to? I have to get something from you now. I just have to, otherwise you're a nice person, you're a nice man, nice woman on the air, that's fine. But if you're replaced tomorrow, I'm not going to care.

Matt Cundill  4:53  
So there are a lot of people who, in the 70s and 80s, and even into the 90s, who could show up for work and read the Q. Guards and back cell, front sell, all that stuff, and you could get into the Radio Hall of Fame with that. Yeah, I did it. I did it. Listen, you can, you can walk the Hall of Fame, and you can point them out, and there were a lot of people who did make it that way. And to your point, there, about, you know, what are you known for? And you came up with something recently I found very interesting, which is three words. So, if I were to ask your audience to give me three words about you as a presenter, it feels like a starting point for creating your brand.

Nails Mahoney  5:32  
Well, I think you have to start somewhere, right? And it's again, I underthink I'm a massive believer and under thinker, not because I'm stupid, I just think you need to, you need to shrink everything down, niche it down to who are you, what are you, and what does your listener expect from you. Just three words: warm, funny, engaging, silly, controversial, wacky, unpredictable. Just pick the words, and you'll know the words, because you can ask your friends or family. Why would you describe me? And they'll tell you, you know, sometimes maybe not what you want to hear, always, but, but they'll tell you, they'll give you a clue, and then you decide which one of those say you get 12 words from your from your friends or family, you get 12 words, which one of those, which three do you want to project to your audience, which three then do you want them to attach to, because they can't attach to 12, so three, pick three, and then they're number one, what's your dominant role, what's your dominant word, that's what they know for funny, that's a funny guy.

Matt Cundill  6:25  
How long a runway should you give yourself to that? I think anytime you create a brand, I always think about three years being that, but you know, for a personality, how much of a runway should you assign yourself before you land on on that brand?

Nails Mahoney  6:38  
Yeah, how long is a piece of string, isn't it? I mean, you could, you could have it done in a month. It depends on the person. It really does. I think you'll, you'll feel it. You'll feel it, but you have to also, unfortunately, or fortunately, have a program director or program controller, or whatever we're calling a content - what are they called now? It's content directors. I never know, there's so many new words, but you have to have somebody in charge who will allow you that space to also develop this. And if you have somebody, I've had, I've had those programmers, we've all had them that don't want you to do that, play the hit sound, tighten sound butcher, get out of there, you know that kind of, so if you have one of those, it's more difficult, but you can still do stuff, but it depends on the support around you, I guess, is what I'm saying, if you're, if you're a management or supportive of what you do, then it gives you that extra ability to nurture who you are, but then also you need that guidance as well. Why you're doing that, so it's that there's a lot of layers to it, right? Like anything, it's a profession, it's a profession. And one thing I've always found about new presenters, especially, is they think it's fun. It is fun, but you're a professional, so be professional, learn the craft, learn how this works. That's how you get better. All the greats have learned how it works and have nailed it down properly and perfectly.

Matt Cundill  7:46  
I was confronted with something like this because you were talking about auditorium testing. Well, they put the personalities into the auditorium test and I came back unidentifiable, not really known for anything.

Nails Mahoney  7:57  
Yeah,

Matt Cundill  7:58  
so this was presented to me and I said, oh, I guess I better figure something out, and I started to use some real-life parts, things that were going on in my life, to just sort of, you know, build something. And as it turns out, I was, I was five time nominated for Music Director of the Year in Canada, but I'd never won, and so everyone said, you know, that you're five time nominated, which is great, except the hitch is you'd never won, so people would start to identify with you're the guy who always loses, you're the Susan Lucci of this business. It would become sort of like an ongoing thing, you know, a little self-deprecating, as well as, but there are little brand pieces that you can sort of add to yourself, so like you said, you know, fun and funny, which are pretty hard to attain in the first day, but my point to what I'm saying is here, it just, it starts with you putting yourself out there.

Nails Mahoney  8:45  
Well, you have to, it's like an actor, you know, you ever do any acting classes, you know, you jump around like a leprechaun and then a frog, and then you turn into a tree, and you just feel absolutely ridiculous. It's the most stupid thing in the world, but then you realize why you're doing it, because they're letting you, they're getting rid of your inhibitions, so if you can get rid of inhibitions, because we do edit ourselves and restrict ourselves when we're on the radio, when we start off, generally, unless, well, not when you start off, actually, when you start off, you're stupid, and that's good, because you don't know what you can't do a lot of the time, so you just do anything, and again, as we get older, we've all gone through this, you'll have that one gig that now is paying the rent, or paying the mortgage, or paying for the kids' schooling or paying for food, so you don't want to screw that up, and if the PD says keep it tight, play the hits, you know what, maybe I'll just do that for a while, because I want this job to be safe, so you do that, so that can restrict you, and that can become a habit, and that can become then your personality, who you are, so the economics of it all also play into the creativity of it all. It's lovely to be creative and be artistic and be wonderful and experimental, but it's not so great if you get that call to the office for a quick meeting at 3o'clock on Friday afternoon, and you're out in the road 10 minutes later because you screwed up. So, I get that, that's that's difficult. It's a difficult balance sometimes for people.

Matt Cundill  9:58  
Well, you mentioned to me. Component here, and that's fear, and fear of failure, and I always thought, oh well, first of all, I carried a lot of it, and still do to this day, and not going to ask you to play psychologist and say, How do I eradicate this, because that's going to be like $150 an hour at my local therapist down the street,

Nails Mahoney  10:17  
25 for the coupon,

Matt Cundill  10:18  
tell me, tell me, what you think of presenter. How do you get around that fear of failure, or how do you manage it, or what are some of the things you can do?

Nails Mahoney  10:27  
Yeah, it doesn't go away, right? We're going to get that no matter what. Look at Kyle Sandilands in Sydney, you know, Kyle and Jackie, oh, biggest show on the planet, blah blah blah, he can still get let go. Nobody's too big that they can't get turfed out of the building, so the fear will be there, even if you have an ego that says they can't farm me. Look, I used to run the number one drive show on a market in a big major market, and I was in India. It's like they love me, the audience loves me. Kicked out because the new program director came in, didn't like me, wanted to bring in his own people, so you're gone. It's kind of, oh, okay, nice wake-up call. Looking back on it at the time, panic, panic. I think sometimes there's that old joke as well, isn't it? Not in radio until you got fired, and that you know we all laugh at that. Ha ha, aren't we hilarious? But sometimes it builds up that bit of backbone that you need, so that you're aware then of this can happen. I think the fear is healthy, to be honest with you. I, so long as it doesn't take over your life, I think the fear can actually help you be better, because if you're afraid to lose your gig, or if you're, if you hear such and such a company that I'm in are doing some cutbacks around the network, oh crap, is it going to hit where I am, is it going to hit this station? Sometimes that fear can elevate you to be better, to be more, because if they're doing layoffs, I'm not going to be the one. Make yourself irreplaceable. Make it. I have a thing that I always say: take your relatable content. Your, hey, how you doing on don't Monday suck, and make it memorable. And if you can make what you do memorable, had that Monday morning. You ever have that Monday morning where you start your car with your bank card, that kind of a money, you know, all of a sudden something - a 5% change, little shift in your on-air perspective that raises your platform a little bit. Be memorable, and it's harder to get rid of you. It's harder to fire your ass if something's happening, because you're the one we need to keep. We need to keep that person. Fire everybody else but this person, we need to keep them, so the fear is good. I think

Matt Cundill  12:24  
we're in a place right now on the planet where there's football everywhere, and I think this is the one time we're all going to have a universal bit, and that's the World Cup

Nails Mahoney  12:34  
instant content. Yeah, that's right.

Matt Cundill  12:36  
Yeah, but let's say I'm not into the World Cup, or I don't know anything about football, and you know, it could be we only get a chance to talk about this, you know, every four years. How do you, how do you tell a presenter to maybe jump in to involve themselves with

Nails Mahoney  12:50  
us? Yeah, you're screwed if you don't know, not okay. If you don't know about football, yeah, we just, and again, be just be honest. As human beings, we're pretty well tuned in to knowing who's cheating us, who's lying to us, who's trying to spoof us, as we say in my neck of the woods, who's spoofing us, and we can tell pretty much by your tone of voice, by your pauses, your hesitations, and telling you, I don't believe you, I don't. I had a session with a guy the other day, and he was playing some disco classic from the 70s, and he came out of it, went well. I was just dancing around the studio to that one. Had a really good dancer, and I said, "I don't, I don't believe you. I don't believe you. And because, why not? Because you're calm, your voice is calm. I just had a lovely dance. You're supposed to be out of breath. If you've been dancing, you're out of breath. Make me believe, help me believe you. So, if you don't know the football, soccer, if you don't know about it, just admit it. Just be honest, I know nothing. Bosnia are playing Canada, I don't know where, even where Bosnia is. Where is this, but you know anything? Get your audience on your side. I'll give you one quick example. A friend of mine took a gig in Glasgow years ago, and there's two soccer teams in Glasgow, two football teams, Rangers and Celtic, hate each other. He went on, like, first gig English guy, saw the accidental audience jarring with the Scottish listeners. He had everything going against him. He says, "I don't know who to support. Do I support Rangers or to support Celtic? He stayed until 12 o'clock that afternoon because the phone lines would not keep blowing up with people with their opinions. He just admitted, "I don't, I don't know. And the audience told him, the audience let them know, so just, just be honest. What do you know? What don't you know? Ask your audience questions, let them help you, let them help you find out things again. Underthink it, you literally don't know anything, tell them.

Matt Cundill  14:33  
I love that, that's just the best advice. And we always say, oh, I can't get the phone to ring, I can't get any interaction. I think the first thing, if you just ask for help, and by the way, this doesn't have to be a phone, or you can go out in the street and get all these questions answered.

Nails Mahoney  14:45  
Yeah,

Matt Cundill  14:47  
is the answer, by the way, to that question between Celtic and Rangers. The first question is, like, where do you go on Sunday for church, right?

Nails Mahoney  14:54  
Yeah, pretty much. Yeah, but you don't even ask it that way, you gotta be way more subtle than that, yeah. Which foot do you kick with? That's usually the answer, the question, which foot, and then that'll tell you left or right,

Matt Cundill  15:06  
and it's sort of inescapable too, because I've already seen the scenes that have come out of Boston today with the Tartan Army,

Nails Mahoney  15:12  
so that

Matt Cundill  15:13  
I mean, that could be some of the best radio anybody could capture, where nobody understands the English language.

Nails Mahoney  15:18  
Ah, beautiful, exactly. Yeah, have a conversation with a Scottish person, then go, nope, not a word, not a word, you didn't get anything, and just so you can make fun of that, of course, you can. Yeah, anything. And by the way, if you do know everything about the sport, don't be an analyst, because we have enough of those, so don't over show, don't show off. Oh, I know what the offside rule is, I know all but Gaegan Press, yeah, yeah, let me tell you about it. They don't care. People don't care.

Matt Cundill  15:43  
I'm a hockey fan, but I don't need you to break down the power play line and the third line centers and all that stuff. It's that's pretty boring stuff.

Nails Mahoney  15:52  
Well, unless you tune into a sports station and that's what they specialize in, right? That's what you want. You're not going to get it off your soft AC or your classic rock station, that's not what you're looking for, really.

Matt Cundill  16:03  
Do you have a jersey, by the way, yourself? For who are you cheering for?

Nails Mahoney  16:06  
Well, no. Well, I'll go for the Scots, because the McCelty Soul Brothers, but Ireland didn't make it in. So I've got a.. and Canada.. I'll go and watch Canada against Bosnia. Lovely flag flying for that one, because half my family are Canadian. So those two.

Matt Cundill  16:20  
I've got those two jerseys as well, I've got a, I've got a blue Scottish jersey and a jacket, and I've got a, I've got my first Canada jersey, which I just recently purchased.

Nails Mahoney  16:29  
There you go, nice, nice, nice. I had, yeah, I had a classic 80s one, that's what I have, classic 80s shirt. One

Matt Cundill  16:35  
of the things you've also talked about recently, and that's like audience ownership, and I remember being in a one of those corporate meetings where they said you don't own your job, and I thought for a lot of people, you know, they get fired, and you know, I think the separation is very hard because they do believe that they own their job, but you don't own your job, and then now, Who owns, you know, your audience, and this is a very complicated answer now in the world of social media, because if you're on YouTube, does YouTube own your audience? Because you're not paying YouTube to be there, so that's weird. But let's talk about the relationship between a presenter and the audience, and who really owns it.

Nails Mahoney  17:11  
Well, we know who owns it. The radio station owns your audience, obviously. You're renting their space, you're renting their microphone, they're giving you the microphone, their microphone, their studio, they're giving you that frequency, they own, they own all of that. It's like if you produce content in the station, they own it, that's theirs, because it was made on their equipment, on their dollar, so they own it. But because we've been kind of berating social media a little bit, but because it's there, you have a chance to then use that social media audience and that radio audience, because they're both the same. If you do enough on air, that'll help your listener transfer their loyalty to another platform that you own. For example, a Patreon - oh, the dreaded word - but Patreon can be free. You don't have to charge people to bond Patreon. If you do something on air, or become known again for something like the three words, if you become known for something that can attract a little niche audience, save 50,000 people listening to you, and 5% of them move like what you talk about, and they move to Patreon with you. You suddenly got a good chunk of followers. You can move that audience with you to another platform, it could be to a podcast, it could be to anything, but again it comes back to that whole what happens if I get let go fear. Well, if you get let go, don't get let go of your pants around your ankles. Have something ready, have something prepared now. Start moving an audience somewhere else, so that you can own them on your, your platform, not necessarily the stations.

Matt Cundill  18:33  
Yeah, I mean, get your own.com I do see this, by the way, from both ends. I will see radio stations who will sort of try to hamper anybody doing additional content outside the radio station online, and say maybe we don't want you doing that. And then I'll see the other side when they go to hire somebody. Let's hire this person. They have 500,000 Instagram followers.

Nails Mahoney  18:53  
They've got great content on theirs. Yeah, exactly. Yeah,

Matt Cundill  18:56  
I mean, while we don't own the radio audience, you do own 500,000 Instagram followers, and I don't know how much of a leverage it means in negotiation for compensation, but I sort of feel that if you do have that many Instagram followers or whatnot, the station's kind of leasing that from you.

Nails Mahoney  19:12  
Part of the reason, yeah, these people with huge followings online get hired is because of their audience. So, yeah, in a way, you're right, it's the flip. The radio station is now saying we'll take your audience. Thank you very much. Now, how many of them are following you because of what you do on Instagram or TikTok, compared to how many will then follow you to radio? Is debatable because they're not all going to go, 'Wow, you're on radio now, let's tune up our FMs. Where's our radio? Let's tune that thing up and listen to you. It doesn't always work that way. I know a couple of podcast guys who had a national radio show, and they gave it up after a year, because they said it wasn't worth our while anymore. We get more money, more listeners on our podcast, so they did. Their audience didn't transfer with them, was the point. They just wanted the podcast. How do you take control, though? Control is it's an by case, by person by person situation. You have to look at what you do, what, what is your program director like? What's your station like? What do they allow you to do? You're like, what are you allowed to talk about? Because you might be allowed to say, check out my socials, boo, that could be trouble. So it's case by case.

Matt Cundill  20:13  
Yeah, and I can imagine that for a radio presenter, and maybe it's actually not. It's probably easier for a radio presenter to determine what their extra value is over somebody who's just currently doing, you know, a podcast and content creation, you know, in the way that I'm doing it right now, because there's all these, there's all this material that they, that doesn't really fit on the radio that you can put out into, you know, social media. So, you know, getting a Patreon, I guess the first thing that people ask is, well, what do people want me for? What are they going to pay me $5 a month for,

Nails Mahoney  20:44  
but there's the thing, they don't even have to pay you yet. You can do Patreon for free, you can do the platform completely free, nobody has to pay you anything yet. You don't, if you're working in radio at the moment, don't look for money on Patreon, just put it up there as an added bonus. Hey, I all the stuff I can't do on the radio, I do it over on Patreon, and go, oh, all the, all the, all the stuff that would be censored, and I'd get into trouble. I do it on Patreon for free, and if they like you enough, if you have those three words and the big strong word that describes you, then you may just entice people to go over, and your radio station might also enjoy it as well, because you're still tying it in to your personality on air, so maybe it's a back and forth, but again, it's case by case,

Matt Cundill  21:24  
you know. Radio stations have the same problem, like I know Bauer Media, for instance, was looking for ways to do subscription radio where they could have stuff behind, you know, a paywall where you could pay to get all this additional content. I'm not sure where they, where they wound up with it, but if you know, if we think it's just presenters who are thinking about this stuff. Radio companies are thinking about it too.

Nails Mahoney  21:45  
Yeah, Global in the UK did the same thing. We had a special level where you could subscribe for like nine pounds a month, and you get no commercials, and you can rewind news again. You can eat all this stuff, but people don't care. It's too much. They're not interested. It's kind of okay, another subscription that I don't need.

Matt Cundill  22:01  
Give me an update on Radio Star. I know that you know you've been doing this for a number of years now. Incredibly successful, not only because of the talent that get involved with that said and make it. I always, you know, I've had the opportunity to judge it on two occasions, and when we get down to like the last 12 and the last six, that is an incredible pool of talent every time, and one of the things you've managed to do that nobody else has, and that's make it global and make it interesting from a global perspective.

Nails Mahoney  22:29  
Oh, that's good to hear. Tracy Lee will be delighted to hear that. She's the main brains behind it, and I'm the guy that makes the coffee and ticks all the boxes behind the scenes for Radio Star. Yeah, this is the ninth year, believe it or not, from an idea that started off on the balcony of our apartment in Malta over a bottle of whiskey, and we just said, "Why don't we do a contest? And it developed into this thing. Well, yeah, it's been great. We've had people who've gone on to host radio shows all around the world, literally all around the world, and move out of radio and find their real meaning in life. One girl in particular, an English lady, who won, she went down to Australia to become the.. she was producing a breakfast show there. She's left radio now because she's doing social media content and editing, and because she realized that's her real passion. And as she says, I wouldn't have done that if I hadn't entered. I wouldn't have actually found that out, or maybe 10 years later I'd have found that out. But you pushed me, it forced me to think, and that's great. And we've all the people who are hosting breakfast shows and late night shows and whatever all around the world. Yeah, this year is a little different now. I don't know what you notice. Every year we can kind of change the format a little bit. This year we're looking for ideas as well as presenters, ideas, a new format, a new feature, a new show idea. As Tracy says, we want to put a bomb underneath the industry, get that. Wow, idea. Well, literally everybody thinks, oh my god, that's amazing. Why do we never think of this before? So it opens it up to not only radio people, but people in general. If you have an idea that you think would help radio, send it to us, send it to us, and let us see it. Let us see, let us hear what it is.

Matt Cundill  23:58  
Well, that's great, because I think we're on year 40 of beat the bank.

Nails Mahoney  24:02  
Oh, don't we say that so much over this side of the world. I'm in France, but we listen to UK radio and Irish radio a lot as well. And it's cash call, it's cash machine, it's the cash bank. It's like, can we stop selling these giveaways? It's three times an hour. Don't forget, text us your phone number drives me to say,

Matt Cundill  24:24  
and of course we'll follow it up the next day in the meeting with, well, you realize that only about, you know, few percent of our audience is going to be playing this contest, but I do understand it can be kind of fun to play along, but at some point there's something different, and I hope Radio Star comes up with the next big idea. Well, I hope so. Yeah, I mean, we have mentors as well. We're going to be picking 10 of the 10 best, I say, best ideas, the 10 most marketable ideas, whatever, the ones we believe will work. And then we have our usual mentors, not judges this year, but mentors to help develop the idea, and then we're going to promote it for radio stations, whoever wins in October out of those 10. So, yeah, it's on our coach.net force. Us radio star, if you have an idea, programmers are stressed. They're super, super busy, and I sort of think that because they're so busy, we need people like nails. And in a perfect radio world, programmers have all the time in the world for talent, and we don't need nails to help us out. I wish, I wish I wasn't here. Yeah, yeah, but if anyways, if you are talent, you don't need the three month course. We just need to set up a conversation with you and connect with you, and you'll do wonders for someone's professional life on air.

Nails Mahoney  25:32  
Well, thanks, Matt. The way we work it now is one session, that's all we do. We don't even do three sessions anymore. There's no point. Who's got time? Who's got one one hour session, and a written feedback - bam, you're good to go. It might sound simple, but again, it's under thinking the process, stripping it all down, because we've been doing this so long. We know what to listen for, we know what your strengths are before you even know whether your strengths are, and we'll pinpoint your strengths, and we'll tell you what they are, and how to use them, and go out into the world, and be a star, and show them all how great you are, because that's what's all about. Show the world how great you are. Nails, thanks so much for doing this again. It's great to talk to you. It's great to reconnect and love what you're doing. Pleasure. And go Canada slash Scotland, you and me both. Thanks, Matt.

Transcribed by https://otter.ai