Sue Haas: NLogic's New President & COO

Tara Sands (Voiceover)  0:02  
The Sound Off Podcast. The show about podcast and broadcast starts now.

Matt Cundill  0:13  
One of our longtime supporters on this show is NLogic a relationship that goes back to 2016. They're into TV and radio data, consumer behavior, ad tracking and if you've listened to those host read ads that I've done over the years, you can actually sort of track and hear the evolution of the company. There's an awful lot of data out there and in the end, all we really want to know is what does it mean? Where are we going with this? Did the marketing work? What's the ROY on this? So late last year, David Phillips, who was a regular on this show left NLogic and Sue Haas took over in April. She's been there a short time and I wanted to take a moment today to get to know her thoughts on media today, especially because she spent the last 13 years at Blue Ant working on a number of projects that don't often wind up on traditional television or radio and I thought, hey, let's just make this an episode. So here we go. An uninterrupted conversation, as we get to know Sue Haas, the new CEO of NLogic and we started with her time at Blue Ant. 

Sue Haas  1:13  
So Blue Ant Media I have been there for almost 13 years and I love the company, I love the culture. We are one of the smaller media companies in Canada, traditionally, a broadcaster, but really, over the years been very multi-platform and a big chunk of the business is actually in production, television production and the channel operator part of the business drives significant amount of revenue for the company in Canada and really finances a lot of the original production efforts. It's it's a great company, because there's so many creative people working on different types of projects. As I said, you know, there's television production, but I ran the digital group. So we were creating a short form series for YouTube and Snapchat, we ran several Tik Tok channels, some of them, you know, close to the million follower range. And just speaking of myself, I also oversaw the digital publishing business so our news based websites, sort of companion sites to our print magazine, business and website companion channels to our television networks. And then increasingly, over the years, Blue Ant has been very focused on fast so free advertised streaming television, which was a huge growth area for the company. And I was increasingly part of that more on the how do we get the advertising side of that business to work. If you're not familiar with fast, a lot of the you actually don't need a direct sales team, and the platform's do all the selling, although there are partners that are starting to ask for it in some cases, and insist on you selling X percentage of the inventory yourself. So that was a learning area for blue ant and something that I was involved in, over the last few years. But yeah, I love Blue Ant, Michael McMillon I've worked with back at Alliance Atlantis, actually, in the early 2000s, when he owned that company, and happy to work with him again for so many years.

Matt Cundill  3:11  
Yeah, I remember that sale of Alliance Atlantis, that was I think, late to close to 2010 in there when that when that sale went through that was made some news I'm based in I'm based in Winnipeg, so that would make news around here with where that company went. 

Sue Haas  3:27  
Yeah and it's forward thinking company, as I said, great staff great culture, and I think pretty well regarded in Canada and internationally. 

Matt Cundill  3:35  
You said multi-platform, and we're probably going to say it like mean if we had a drinking game, that would be our drink.

Sue Haas  3:41  
Yes. Multi-platform, yes and I have heard a term as I started NLogic multimodal, which is used a lot, which is not a term that I would have used like historically, but multi-platform for me and how we used it at Blue Ant would be traditional linear TV, connected TV, and all its forms including fast and SVOD and BVOD, etc. Website publishing, so running really like an ad based model there, so running ads across websites that are producing large volumes of content as social channels. We also ran as I said, print magazines. We also had, you know, experiential event business. I don't know if you're familiar with the Cottage Life, consumer show in Winnipeg, so we don't go to Winnipeg, but it's huge in Ontario, but 30,000 people come over the weekend to see that in person show. So experiential is also a part of multi-platform at Blue Ant.

Matt Cundill  4:36  
So when I think of multi-platform, especially with many of the things that you're talking about, it sounds like a lot of work and it sounds like each one of those platforms is going to deliver a little bit of money back on on the advertising. And so how do you put it all together to bundle it up to make it profitable to make it so that we can collect all these what they call the digital dice, but turn those into like some very thick dollars because, oh, we're gonna put this on Tiktok and oh, look, we're gonna stream over here. Oh, look over here another streaming possibility and let's check out the social channels. How do you get all that together and it without, you know having having someone's head blow clean off?

Sue Haas  5:15  
Yeah, it's great question I would say we don't we don't put it all together in every instance. So not every platform is going to work for every campaign or every show, what I really oversaw was the revenue driving part of the social digital channels and platforms. So especially TV bait, first companies would use social as a marketing tool primarily. So if you were picking a huge show like Game of Thrones, and you're releasing that on linear and then you're putting it on streaming you might use you would use for sure, Tiktok and YouTube etc, to help promote back to those to those earrings. For me, we were creating standalone shows and series on the social channels that earn their own money and we also were marketing arm for the traditional legacy part of the media business, the TV, primarily network channels. But I would to answer your question, we would never, we rarely would use a full 360 cross platform strategy for everything. Occasionally we would do that for really big in the case of a huge release for a really marquee, tentpole show, or if we had a really strong on the ad side, which I also oversaw a really big RFP or or campaign that we were trying to pitch on. And we would put every platform in there just to try to you know, get maximum dollar for that by or maximum like ROI for the client. But definitely every platform is not going to fit the objective for a campaign or show launch in every sense absolutely not. Other the demo is off across those things, or the content just does not resonate in a format. Sometimes taking a 12 episode TV show and cutting it into 15 seconds to promote on Tiktok is just not going to, to work in every instance, especially if the demo and TV is 45 plus.

Matt Cundill  6:56  
What is NLogic?

Sue Haas  6:57  
So when I started also disclosure, when I started the job I had I had never heard of NLogic, I'm just going to be honest there. I had certainly heard of Numeris and Numeris was a client of Blue Ant in fact. NLogic was a client of we were client event NLogic to I just the name had never kind of gone across the office. I would think of it if you asked me a few months ago, I've been in the job by the way, less than three months as a software company evolving into a data company, a data first company that's providing data solutions to clients primarily in Canada. And that is something that NLogic will be focusing on moving forward. And I know David, who you know, well my predecessor looked at too, but how can we bring in new forms of data even outside of Numeris, which is our parent company, and provide solutions to the market outside of just the software.

Matt Cundill  7:46  
So last night, I'm watching the Women's World Cup, aside from being just a little disappointed with the result was a tie, I get the feeling that Nigeria wins 00 was was kind of how I felt. But this is a great time of year for no tools that you have where you can get some actual real time data, I was gonna say, well, I can't wait for you to provide the data a month from now. But a lot of the stuff is really, you're able to deliver it in real time. How important is real time data for your clients?

Sue Haas  8:17  
I'm still out in market discussing a needs assessment with the clients and getting their feedback on what they're looking for. Specifically, of course, from NLogic as it comes to data and data analysis. I haven't heard a lot about real time data yet. To be honest, what I'm hearing a lot about is campaign tracking, commercial ratings. 

Matt Cundill  8:59  
That puts a lot of pressure on you, you know, for for advertisers, because advertisers really want to know what's working. And so is that something that sort of keeps you up at night to think okay, well, how are we going to be able to provide this and really sort of show proof that the ad worked?

Sue Haas  9:14  
Yeah, attribution on advertising is a huge issue in the industry overall. And I would say we are looking at a lot of solutions for that. Does it keep me up at night? Not yet. I'm I'm pretty optimistic. I haven't had any sleepless nights yet. Ask me again in a couple of months, I guess. NLogic is a part of the solution and I think a lot of these bigger picture issues in the media industry, which are global not just in Canada really need the buy side and the sales side and the associations like think TV and radio connects and the jack like Numeris and us to work together. I don't know if NLogic can solve these big problems on our own, but I'm definitely out talking to our clients and partners and getting their feedback and and it's early for me to say like, where's the biggest concern right now. And I don't want to say that yet, because I just haven't had a chance to really hear from everyone and really evaluate the market problem. But that is there. I think evaluating campaign performance in real time is clearly one of the concerns I'm hearing. But it's one of several.

Matt Cundill  10:18  
You're taking this incredible new role and usually the advice that I give to anybody who's starting something new, but I think I think you're in this phase, you have your first 100 days where you really started taking stock of everything, but then there's also what I call the one year that the lap around the track. So here you are, you're taking your lap around the track, you've come around the first bend, and we're going through summer, we're gonna move into fall. I've already called this sort of like the summer of discontent. It could be, you know, Bill C 18. It could be the actor strike, it could be all these things that are really hampering down on media and I know you've worked in all facets. Even earlier on you mentioned, you talked about newspaper websites.

Sue Haas  10:18  
Magazine websites, but similar.

Matt Cundill  10:19  
Are we going to be okay, in media?

Sue Haas  10:20  
I am optimistic. I am generally very engaged in the media industry. Yes, that we're going to be okay to answer your question. For me, there's always been an uphill battle, even if just on the TV side, I think for the last 10 years, and I've worked digital first, for pretty much my entire career, it has been my entire career, and have always heard like, you're going to be the replacement of cable TV and build up your revenue plan and build up the growth strategy. And you know, it never really it still hasn't come to that I think TV advertising is still I don't know this for a fact. But I don't know this like, exactly. But 60 to 70% of the industry still in Canada is is hugely, I mean, on the ad side is still in cable television. And so I think that, it's still going to be a slow move away from that into connected TV and other platforms. I mean, I worry about Bill C, C 18 and the writer strikes as well, but there's always something and I feel like we get through it. People at the end of the day, I feel people want to consume media, we're creating entertainment that people enjoy on their free time. And when I talk to the team, and NLogic, sometimes I try to distill it down to that very basic need. We are a part of an industry that creates TV shows and radio content, and articles and things that people like to watch and listen to, to learn and to laugh and to relax. And that is not going away. So how people consume it and find it and pay for it will always change. But they'll always be media in Canada and will always to always be a need for it.

Matt Cundill  12:46  
You know, who else is creating all that stuff, is AI. And so I had this question down and how do you look at AI from from where you sit? 

Sue Haas  12:56  
It is growing at a phenomenal pace, I will definitely give AI that. And I'm sort of glad I'm not managing a group of 20 journalists who work on online websites right now, because it is a bit scary of of how efficient and how well AI can create articles online, for example, or radio scripts or whatever it may be. But again, being optimistic with there always being advances in technology, there was an analogy that someone gave to me that I thought was helpful to to get comfortable with AI, where you know, when the dishwasher was invented, it saved everyone a lot of time and created the efficiency in the household. But you still need someone to open it and put the dishes in and take the dishes out. It's not you still need that human interaction with the dishwasher and I like to think of AI in the same way where it can really help us be efficient and focus on more important things. But we're still required to make it to make it work.

Matt Cundill  13:56  
I love that analogy. And I did two things today on LinkedIn. One of them was I asked for a connection request with you  and thank you, by the way for accepting my connection requests. 

Sue Haas  14:05  
Yes. 

Matt Cundill  14:05  
The second thing was I went to create a post for a podcast episode and the first thing that shows up is would you like AI to do this for you? 

Sue Haas  14:14  
Did you?

Matt Cundill  14:16  
No I didn't. I don't think there's enough AI information to talk about Bryan Goldmark from the Locked On Podcast Network.

Sue Haas  14:22  
You should give it a try because I had to do it. What did I have to do the other day? I was short on time and I had to provide a bio for a conference that I was attending. I actually just came back from the Cantar World Summit in Buenos Aires, Argentina, which was really amazing experience. First time I've been there. First time I've been at a Cantar Summit and first time I've been to Argentina and actually the first time I've been south of the equator I realized. It gets dark at 4:30 and it's dark at eight when you wake up which is very disorienting coming from somewhere here. But it was amazing and I had to provide a bio and I was course late on it and I did go and use Chat GPT and it was a really nice start. I did go in and I fix it like the dishwasher analogy, of course, but it did save me a lot of time and it was a good, a good starting place. So I do recommend that you at least give it a try.

Matt Cundill  15:08  
I might try for this episode.

Sue Haas  15:10  
You're still required in your job it just, it allows you to cut out time for things and focus on more important tasks and projects in your day.

Matt Cundill  15:18  
What is multi-platform for radio, so there's some streaming, and then there's some podcast and then maybe there's some social, maybe if you put the show on on Facebook, there's this there's a stream there as well. So when we think about, you know, audio, and you know, I'm thinking about inside the radio station, does that really constitute because I think for radio, they've had a lot of trouble over the years trying to monetize the digital numbers they have, they've got very good Facebook pages and great websites and a whole bunch of stuff. But I feel like it's been a bit of a leap, to get them to not give it away for free. And to get the right numbers in order to you know, come up with a multi-platform number to, you know, to sell across a number of things. How do you look at now you've come from the TV side. So but coming over from TV, and visual and video and video streaming? How would you look at the audio side of that?

Sue Haas  16:08  
How I've always approached multi-platform, I hope I'm not contradicting what I said earlier, is you have to create a voice and a presence on that platform that fits that demo and what that demo is expecting. So what I would never do is take a radio show, and then go and cut it from its format and just chuck it on Tiktok, for example, that's not going to work. If you want to have a presence on Tiktok, that maybe long term grows to let's say, half a million followers, and it starts to drive awareness for your brand or your show. What I would always recommend is a unique standalone approach for that platform that works and resonates with that audience. That takes more time. Of course, it takes more money so you really have to think is it worth it. But it probably will not work. If you just cut down and throw up on the other platform. It does in some cases, like I know some some tick talkers that have taken their content verbatim and put it up on Snapchat, and they grow a pretty strong audience and they're able to make significant revenue on Snapchat just from dropping it on exactly how it is. They don't even change the aspect ratio, it's just go straight up. But in general, the rule of thumb is to not do that it probably won't succeed. And for radio, I would say what is your intent for going multi like cross platform? Multi- platform is why do you want to be on Tiktok or or Facebook or Instagram or YouTube? Is it to promote the over the air listening? Is it to promote online streaming? Like what is your goal? Is it to create revenue standalone revenue on those platforms? If that's the case, and you need to grow high subscriber follower numbers, you need to have a separate strategy, content strategy and plan for each platform. Unfortunately, it's not always efficient. Like I've done it for so many years for so many different shows like YouTube shows that we've tried to just take exactly how they were and put on Snap and put on Tiktok and put on Facebook. Sometimes it does work like I found first natural history shows like nature, sometimes you can do that. But oftentimes, you have to customize for each platform and for radio would be no different, really. There's been some success, I think you would know more than me would taking you know posting on YouTube, for example, I listen to some podcasts on YouTube. That would be an exception, I suppose. Yeah, I don't know. I would say like if you want to use the social channels as a marketing tool, still you have to you have to have a strategy that's that fits that demo and what that demo is looking for.

Matt Cundill  18:40  
So I find it curious. You say you listen to some podcasts on YouTube, or do you just watch them?

Sue Haas  18:45  
I listened to them. I don't really watch them. I'll have them on in the background like really some, to be fair, some podcasts that my team created at Blue Ant we owned, I oversaw a brand called Mobile Syrup. I don't know if you are familiar with it. 

Matt Cundill  18:57  
Absolutely. Yeah. 

Sue Haas  18:58  
So that that was a really amazing team that Blue Ant acquired in the fall of 2020 and that fell under under me and they are tech news in Canada, one of the only independents in the country, they're going to really have some issues with with Bill CI8, that does sort of keep me up at night on their behalf. I don't even oversee them anymore it's pretty scary. But we would post all the podcasts on YouTube and I would listen to them. Not watch them the watching to your point like the taping in the studio, I think you have to be a pretty diehard fan to enjoy that. Again, you probably know this better than than me but the stats on just the audio listening of podcasts on YouTube are pretty high.

Matt Cundill  19:37  
That's amazing. By the way, by the way, when we talk multi-platform and just you know diving into the podcast side, I was gonna I will talk about attribution in just a sec, but a lot of podcasters come and they're like, ah, should I be on YouTube? Should I put it up on YouTube? And I'm like, yes, but maybe only for the reason that it becomes marketing for people discover your show and then they'll go to the odd the audio side of things, and it doesn't really matter where they access to you anyway, the answer is no. So go right ahead, right.

Sue Haas  20:05  
Yeah. Yeah. Yes, for the marketing, but again, my, in my experience, a lot of people do listen to their podcasts on YouTube. It is one of the top ways to, to hear hear show.

Matt Cundill  20:17  
We've, we've had this discussion many times on this show before, Signal Hill Insights will obviously come out with a study and they will say 24% of podcasts are discovered on YouTube and the original OG podcasters will go sideways and say, but they're not podcasts because it's just a show or a streaming piece of audio. It doesn't originate from an RSS feed. So but I mean, listen, you're in you're NLogic, and you're, you do the data. And the data says, people have consumed the show here and that it doesn't lie.

Sue Haas  20:49  
Yeah and you'll find like, fans live and breathe on YouTube and there's many people like that. Those are ones that are going to consume any media on on YouTube. Really, YouTube is just such a huge platform.

Matt Cundill  21:10  
My father in law is watching TV on YouTube. 

Sue Haas  21:12  
I mean, I watch TV on YouTube, too. I'm a huge YouTube fan, but anyhow, I do love podcasts. The other thing too, I think when you get you get like platform loyalty and then it's hard to break out into these other distribution outlets, or you just don't want to be bothered, you're already on YouTube. So you don't want to jump off and and go to like your Apple Podcast or Spotify or whatever.

Matt Cundill  21:35  
That is fascinating about platform loyalty. I don't know that there's necessarily been a study about that, but I know, most people will go in to try to give some promotion to maybe their radio show, whatever it is, and you want to get them on Instagram, come over and listen to my podcast over here. Is it easy to get people to leave one place to go to another?

Sue Haas  21:56  
I'd say no, it is extremely difficult and for talking about the social network, some of them are much better equipped for click through and link off and others Instagram is not good for that. Generally, you want to keep people within that environment. And Facebook's better, YouTube's okay, Tiktok's terrible, you can't even click off Tiktok, really. So yeah, I would say it's very hard to get some people to move from one to the other. That's why back to my previous comment, if you're trying to build a fan base and a loyalty and engagement on a network, the strategy to have that be a link off somewhere else is probably not, it's not going to work for you long term. In most cases, the exception on Instagram would be ecommerce, probably, but it's pretty strong on shopping,

Matt Cundill  22:44  
I have one hack on Instagram and that's if you share the episode through Spotify, and then send it to your stories, you can get to Spotify in one click, which I think is a great way just to drive your Spotify listening, or just connect them to the show that it's just a nice hack that that Spotify put in. So yeah, if you want to send people to your website, you're probably gonna have a very hard time doing it, but it's so nice when it's just one click.

Sue Haas  23:06  
Have you checked the stats on it, like are people clicking?

Matt Cundill  23:09  
Yes. Generally, when I recommend this hack to people, Spotify listening will start to increase and what's the comfortable number for Spotify in podcasting? Well, it's anything over 11% you're punching above the podcast average. So like, again, it doesn't really matter where you listen to the show, we're just happy that you do it. One little podcast question- has it come up yet about the about the lack of attribution. Because whenever I talk to anybody who wants to deal with advertising and podcasts, well, you only have an IP address and you only have a user agent, and I'm not really sure what else we can do with that. So seeing from where you are and what you know about media, is that an obstacle or is it good or bad?

Sue Haas  23:51  
In my role at NLogic that has not come up to be honest yet. It hasn't been brought up to me directly. The the main issues that I've been facing as I'm having very are not issues I'm facing but then I'm hearing that in my very early conversations are frustration over the the measurement methodology and PPM and diary in the fluctuations and how significantly impact someone's business. That's one of the big things, the difficulty in getting ads up onto radio has come up, especially when it's compared to say running a Facebook ad or a YouTube ad. What else has come up with radio- definitely the the measurement side has been brought up just lower budgets, generally for the industry and being able to quite frankly afford our software. I mean, that comes up quite a bit for me too like I have two kids 13 and 10 year old and have been, you know, pay more attention to to the media that they're consuming and they do not consume. They would consume some radio in the car possibly, but not really and if they were to consume radio at home that we don't really have hardware for them to do it. And so that that's sort of something I've been thinking about, especially if you wanted to bring in younger demos is how are they actually going to listen to it? And I know a lot of conversation is around streaming off the phone. I don't see anyone doing that. So how you actually get access to radio comes up. But attribution? No, I for podcasting, I haven't. I haven't really heard that. At Blue Ant where we did run advertising on podcasting and we would have podcasts together by advertising for our own business, or we would have clients by ads against the podcast that we created and ran, the major issue was on just reach and having a wider audience, which was always really, really hard to get to get a big enough volume to get enough of ad buy around it, because we just couldn't get it high enough downloads and get a high enough audience. And as I was in charge of launching new digital content projects, so it might be video format, or it might be on video format and social like Tiktok show or YouTube show or snapshot like reminding staff shows and podcasts as well. It was podcasts were tough, because the revenue plan around podcast was a lot more challenging than, say, a Snapchat Discover show. It's much easier to make money quickly where a podcast is, as a content owner, pretty challenging. I would say, to be honest, I don't have I have all the podcasts we launched at Blue Ant, which wasn't a ton, but challenging to make money on them.

Matt Cundill  26:25  
You mentioned that a lot of people are concerned about the speed and the time it takes to get a radio ad from the copy to the airwaves and this came up I think over a year ago at the radioactive conference in Toronto, and somebody mentioned on stage and I went, 'really?' Does it really take that, what happened radio used to be the one that could get this out the fastest and now it's really being challenged by it takes a while to get the spot on the air. What that I miss? Have I been locked away for 10 years? What happened?

Sue Haas  26:56  
I don't know either yet, Matt to be honest, but I have heard that. So it's something that's sort of on my list, my list of things to look into and investigate back with and logic team. But I don't know, I don't know. But it is it is an issue that the industry is facing.

Matt Cundill  27:10  
I've heard it a few times and I'm very surprised to hear it. Maybe I'm showing my age. I mean, maybe I might be aging out of this.

Sue Haas  27:17  
So switching topics altogether. One of the things I've been in a few radio competence, like radio days, I was at the spring, which was part of Canadian Music Week, which was great. One of the things I'm most interested in with radio is some of the the innovation in the car and with some of the smart cars coming out and the interactive dashboards that are coming out and ways that they can have some art and lyrics and search for for your radio channels, which is a lot more sophisticated than what is in the car dashboard. today. I'm just thinking of how do people actually discover an access radio. And I do think that the that that is limited, especially as you go down and age, as I already said, because even if my own kids and their friends, even if there was a show that really resonated with them, I don't really don't know how they would watch it. Eventually they'll get a license and drive a car, I assume maybe not in Toronto, but that is definitely a way to consume radio. I've never worked on radio before it's radio and newspapers are the two media forms I've really never had the opportunity to work on. So I'm very excited to to learn more about the industry. But I feel like the accessibility for radio is a problem. I don't know if you find that.

Matt Cundill  28:27  
I think it's okay for me because I can find it on my ALEXA. I've got three of them. I can ask for at any time. You're right. I will never listen to a radio station on a phone, but I will plug it into my car play and listen to largely iheart radio stations off their app so I can listen to WKTU. I can listen to stations from Los Angeles as I drive and go places I don't need to listen to my local station. I can just choose any one of the ones out there radio player Canada's also available to me, um, through the app. So yes, I mean, I think it's as accessible as it used to be, but it has to go up in competition with the podcast that I'm really more interested in listening to right now. Or perhaps another piece of audio. I actually will often ask on my on my smart speaker just to play 107.1 The Peak, which is a station on a White Plains, New York. I just happen to enjoy the music and I still think there's joy for having music curated for you.

Sue Haas  29:26  
Yeah, no, me too. I'm just thinking of as generations that don't grow up with radio playing in the house or being aware of what stations are on the dial, and to stream all their music and search all their music on demand, how they're coming to the appreciation of that. I'm just not sure.

Matt Cundill  29:45  
By the way, shout out to Fred Jacobs, who gave that presentation at Radio Days North America on the car dash and talking about some of the importance of at all you'd have to refresh my memory in that session. He talks a little bit about advertising but maybe not putting the advert icing on the on the dashboard that there was some pushback with people who had tried to use you know, put a Burger King as part of their their dash display.

Sue Haas  30:10  
Yeah, I don't know if it was that session, I was looking at the Xperio one. That was the one and his name is escaping me now, but he did the same presentation at VCAB in Vancouver a few weeks previous, that was the one I was referring to and actually, we're sort of discussing with him any opportunities to work with and logic, they collect a lot of proprietary data from the car OEMs, the car manufacturers and so so we're having, you know, early days discussions with them, but that was the presentation I was referring to.

Matt Cundill  30:40  
which was the one I missed. How did I miss seeing you at this event?

Sue Haas  30:43  
I don't know. I mean, I probably saw you and didn't recognize you. Because I'm still meeting so many people. I was there I was definitely there. I was in most of the sessions are some of them were at the same time. But I did try to hit all of them.

Matt Cundill  30:55  
Yeah, I've got some regret too. Because I mean, there was a couple of sessions I missed. I was like, oh, there's video afterwards. Now there's no video so darn. The next time we do this, do you want to do this on YouTube?

Sue Haas  31:07  
I mean, sure, we could post it on YouTube and I'm happy to do that. I would love to meet again later on. Once I've, you know, had a few more months and really have, you know, thought through some of these market problems more with with clients and been discussing with the team or the team, by the way, and logic is amazing. That's one of the real highlights of the job for me so far. We had a little social event on Wednesday up at Sunnybrook Park, which is a big park in Toronto on the north end and several new employees were there. So meeting them for the first time. We have a fairly big engineering team so over half the staff are engineers. I think people don't realize that about NLogic. We do build software and proprietary software. Yeah, they're a great team and I'm learning a ton every day but them and the clients and our partners so I'd love to meet again when I'm a little bit further into the job down the road.

Matt Cundill  31:57  
Thanks for taking the time to do this today. I know it's you're a few months in on this and still doing that first lap around the track but hope you're enjoying it.

Sue Haas  32:04  
Yeah, thanks, Matt. This has been great.

Tara Sands (Voiceover)  32:06  
The Sound Off Podcast is written and hosted by Matt Cundill, Produced by Evan Surminski, edited by Chloe Emond-Lane, social media by Aidan Glassey. Another great creation from the Sound Off Media Company. There's always more at soundoffpodcast.com