Megan Knott: The All Encompassing DMO, Driving High Impact Economic Growth

Mary Anne Ivison  00:01

This is forward motion discussions about the important topic shaping Ontario's tourism industry. Here's your host, Andrew sigward,

 

Andrew Siegwart  00:09

joining us today is Megan knont. She is the Chief Executive Officer of tourism Kingston. Megan specializes in developing community partnerships for transformational impact. Let's get right to it. Well, hello, Megan, thank you for joining us at forward motion. Thanks, Andrew. I wondered if you could start by telling us a bit about your career journey so far and what drew you into the tourism industry.

 

Megan Knott  00:31

So I think tourism is definitely a dynamic career, and I think that speaks to people that like a fast paced environment, certainly in these interesting times, that's no better stated than lots of things that are coming our way, but certainly the resiliency that I think our sector and the people within our sector show it's an industry that has global reach, which is also really exciting, certainly for me and I think those that are in the industry, The decisions that are made, whether that's in a Kingston level, so a local, municipal level, or provincial or federal, that it does touch travelers globally, I think it's also presenting a pride of place. And so certainly, whether you're representing the sector from an association perspective or from your own local community. I certainly think that's mixture of, like that dynamic, fast pace, with that global nuance to it, and then really being able to be proud of the place that you talk about and you live in. Certainly, I've been, you know, fortunate enough to have a lot of great work experience and in a lot of certain areas, provincially, or sector wise, and sort of sort of landed in this DMO world. And again, that dynamic work comes back, because DMOS are constantly evolving, and whether they're marketing or whether they're management or whether they're stewardship organizations going forward, I think again, it just steeply rooted in that pride of place and wanting to share that sense of pride with visitors, investors and those that want to come and experience all there is to experience at any

 

Andrew Siegwart  02:08

level in our industry, when you feel like you're an ambassador first, and you feel like you're a host it, it just connects you to it in a way that's personal. And I think that's a really good answer. And no doubt in your personal life, are you one to host? Are you the the person that brings your your family and friends, together? Yeah,

 

Megan Knott  02:27

absolutely, always, I'm the oldest sister. I'm the neighbor that brings everyone together. So I think, you know, it's just that innate trait, and then you just expand that into the community, and you do feel like you're hosting, you know, the outside world to your beautiful community, and that shines through, I think, infectiously, into, you know, the people that visit and then come back to visit

 

Andrew Siegwart  02:49

you have that in common with a lot of destination leaders and industry owner operators. So I think that's something really special, before we get into sort of our discussion about destination marketing and management and some of the real interesting innovations there. I wanted to start by just chatting a little bit about Kingston. Just for the record. You know, I have a very personal connection to Kingston. My family lives in Kingston. My extended family has been in that region for a very long time, so it's almost like a second home to me. So I'm really looking forward to talking to you about it. For me, Kingston is steeped in history. It's surrounded in nature, and I think it has a really cool hip factor that is, no doubt influenced by forces like Queen's University, this global brand and experience that's right in your community. But I'm wondering if you could share with us why Kingston should be on Ontarians travel list this season.

 

Megan Knott  03:40

You know, I'll lean into what you just said in terms of authentically hip. And really that's a brand pillar of ours that was intentional. I think Canadians across our nation realized that The Tragically Hip is a great brand ambassador for our community. Certainly, if you watch their documentary, it was really, in part, a love letter to Kingston, because their experience, their music, their bond as a band, really came from their inspiration of what is Kingston and what the community meant to them. And so we were really lucky to be able to be showcased in that way. And that really is a nod to that authentic music piece we're not just home to The Tragically Hip, but lots of other Canadian artists that have kind of been birthed and blessed in a career that they've gone on to do great things and continue to and so I think we open our doors to sharing that Canadian experience, certainly with the world. We're sort of a Kingston way is a Canadian way, and that can be no stronger a message than right now with what's going on, certainly globally. And certainly we're going to lean into that, as we always have. You know, our city is a visitor city, and so whether that's the oldest penitentiary in Kingston that you can now visit, whether that's the oldest fortification Network. Work along the Rideau Canal that you can visit, whether that is haunted and historic, which we lean into and that's the walks or the tours, whether that's the gateway to the 1000 Islands, and talking about all of the important waterway systems that you can get out on on the cruise ships that we offer. And see, you know, cruise shipwrecks, there's 200 shipwrecks that are just literally at the doorstop of Kingston. Yeah, and big to divers, obviously, whether that's food, certainly we lean into that culinary piece. We have a lot of local experiences as it relates to food. We have the oldest outdoor market in Canada. Have great food tours. We have lots of feast on certified restaurants in our community. Great relationship with Culinary Tourism Alliance that help us navigate that tons of rainbow registered organizations to make sure that we're clearly showing that we're a diverse, welcoming community and sustainable practices. I mean, we've leaned into our green step certification, so we're making sure that we're just clear to our visitors as well as our residents, that we're, you know, a unique spot to visit. We lean into that Canadian historic experience, but we've also got a hipness to us and and particularly with your nod to Queen's University, we also have Royal Military College as well as St Lawrence College, and so we have 40,000 students that lean in and commend our community and live here every single year. So they bring a youthfulness and a vibrancy to our downtown that's pretty unmatched,

 

Andrew Siegwart  06:34

and that experience and diversity of options really comes through what's the population of Kingston? Just to remind her, about 140,000 people. Yeah, so a good sized city, but certainly not a mega city, and yet you have so much diversity and so much offerings, and I would imagine for visitors, the benefit of not having to spend so much time on roads or in traffic or, you know, Traveling makes it very accessible, too, doesn't it?

 

Megan Knott  07:04

You know, we have a concentration of hotels, attractions and experiences that are all walkable. And I think that really is the benefit of, you know, a traveler. We want to travel as creatures of exploration outside and being able not to have to take, you know, several modes of transportation to get to places. And so even just the walkability of a place, I think, is high on a visit visitors list of what they'd like to see in a city. And we certainly prove that in spades. So when

 

Andrew Siegwart  07:35

I was doing some pre research for our conversation, I was looking at the campaign that visit Kingston had running on socials, and you were talking about top 25 things to do, I noticed right away in the listings exactly what you were talking about in terms of culinary and local food, in terms of diversity, in terms of music, different pride events, etc. So I can tell that you're really leaning into those, diverse offerings and really representing Canadian values. I'm wondering, for some communities who might be experiencing a bit of a pushback on some of those priorities, what's your advice on staying the course there? Because, of course, we know strategically they make sense, but I think when times get tough or when there's a bit of strife, people sort of second guess those so maybe a little bit of advice on on how staying the course on those matter.

 

Megan Knott  08:24

Anything we do is rooted in a strategy. Any good strategy is then rooted in both community consultation as well as partner and external stakeholder partnership consultation. And I don't think you can marry the two together and not have a really strong sense of a road map on what your key priorities are, and no matter what noise is happening around you, whether that's, you know, big in nature, or seemingly small. I think that obviously strategies are road maps that certainly can be altered and are meant to be altered, but they're also a long term goal. And I think if you provide a Start Stop momentum, you're really not doing your community service. You really have to lean into those longer term strategies. And so right from the outset, having that strong strategic plan enables you to have a really nimble annual plan, and those annual plans should touch on those key deliverables, you know, sustainability, diversity, authenticity, those are really important pieces. And you're not a community that isn't if you can't provide the experiences you're a community that is because you can provide those experiences. So don't pretend to do the things that you can't do and offer. Really lean in and do well the things that you can do and offer, those are your unique offerings that then visitors really feel that easy to do. What's

 

Andrew Siegwart  09:58

really important with what you're talking and. Out is that you're leaning into what your local community and your business community are offering and want to showcase, and so therefore it's done an authentic way, and then that's going to attract the visitors. So I think that's very, very sound advice. Share with us some of the little hidden gems in the Kingston area that maybe people don't know about. But should

 

Megan Knott  10:18

I think we're home to really fantastic boutique hotels. We've got some really beautiful, innovative inns and B and Bs and small hotels that have reinvented themselves in the last five years, and those are in the core of the downtown. So again, very walkable, very historic, but very fresh and and innovative, and we also have a very vibrant downtown that's, I think, old with new and that sort of Jux position of the two and so hidden alleys, hidden shops within hidden alleys, I think, make it just a really fun, walkable experience, live music all over the City. We're certainly a city of music, and I think we're a subdued Live Music City. So it's not that that's our number one call to action, like other communities elsewhere in the world, but certainly that we just are able to sprinkle in that live music with other, you know, culinary experiences, or just out on on streetscapes, certainly too. I think we're an offering of really great walking tours, whether you want to do those as self guided or guided, whether it's literary tours and learning the great literary people that have gone through our city, whether it's film tours and just looking at where all our films have happened, and putting those connections together of the films you've watched, and then come and see the backdrops, whether it's culinary tours, but great food tour in Kingston that exposes all the great local eats in town, cycle tours. So I think there's an opportunity to really get out there and have some guidance as it relates to what you want to see. But certainly I think it's a very European backdrop that I think is very unique. And, you know, it's the first capital of Canada, and so City Hall is still there, but it's yet on this beautiful Lake Ontario that connects to the to the Rideau system. And you can see the 1000 Islands The start of it from the tip of of the city. And so I think there's just that combination of, you know, interactiveness, yet just walkability, that I think everyone can find some head and gems. And it's almost patio season in Kingston, which is also really fun. That's

 

Andrew Siegwart  12:30

when things start to really sizzle, don't they? One of the things that I was impressed by in in Kingston, and it's, I'm gonna say it's within the last 10 years, but a fair amount of development on the waterfront. So there was that great beach park and the pier that was built a number of years ago, and it's created this amazing waterfront experience. And I love it. And I think a lot of people don't realize how Warm Lake Ontario is at that area, so it's great for swimming. But imagine that was quite an interesting partnership with the municipality and levels of government to build infrastructure like that, is that a big part of the story as well, like in continuing investment in infrastructure like that,

 

Megan Knott  13:08

a good place to live is a good place to visit, is a good place to invest. And we know that that is what we say in the industry, and that doesn't hold true any better than using Kingston as a case study for investment. So whether it's waterfront development, whether if it's infrastructure for sport facilities, or whether it's infrastructure for conference spaces, I think that again, it goes back to having really key good plans. And waterfront Master Plan told us that we had a beautiful waterfront, but that we just needed to activate it. And so you're seeing these inlets, these piers that didn't exist before, that had beautiful sand structures and jumping platforms. And, you know, the ability to get people into waterway systems that should be enjoyed. But certainly, I think, really, what it talks about is, you know, investors are looking for communities that are open to business development, and they're also looking for communities that are co investors in those spaces. And so, you know, as a tourism bureau, we have to be ready for those and certainly we are. We've had lots of conversations about Investment Attraction, and I think whether that's Investment Attraction in outdoor public space, or whether that's a different type of Investment Attraction, it all adds to the walkability, the livability of the place. And with that type of development, that place making development, it just adds to the further offerings that Kingston can put on its you know, its radar. Local

 

Andrew Siegwart  14:40

residents benefit as much as visitors, as much as business investors as they should. Yeah, as you're leading us there, could you share a little bit about the sort of economic impact of tourism in Kingston? Like, how does tourism impact the dollars and cents of Kingston? We

 

Megan Knott  14:55

see about 3 million visitors a year, and so we're definite. Only community that really leans into tourism as an economic sector, we have, you know, over 500 a million dollars in economic impact that we measure every year, certainly in our workforce, it's about 10% of our workforce is in the tourism sector. So all important, I think economic impact starts to note that we certainly rely on this sector, and when the sector becomes challenged, we feel it, and whether that's through a pandemic or potential, you know, impact now with trade wars, whatever kind of the outside community brings in to us internally, we certainly have to be able to that terrible word pivot, but certainly be able to be ready for it. But not just the economic impact of those stats. I think what's also important to note is the economic impact of the call on quality of life, and I think where that comes into play, and you know, we may talk about it a little later in the session, but this is where the transformational municipal accommodation tax can really come into play in a community like Kingston, and certainly, our ability to retain and attract investment in the tourism space is really important because that you know, leads to job creation, which then leads obviously, to more important economic impact measurements, which I just shared with you, and whether that's in hotels, or whether that's in conference centers, or whether that's in, you know, sport infrastructure or creative industries sectors which we, you know, we work in animation studios or film studios. I think really important to note that that economic impact is a measurement, but it's also a goal, and it's a goal to further invest, which then will increase our economic impact cycle. So certainly, I think we're on a good trajectory, but certainly want to be able to grow that.

 

Andrew Siegwart  16:54

I really like that you raise that quality of life metrics, or that like a wealth and wellness or wellness and well being metric, it's becoming an important one for destination communities, above and beyond the jobs and the sales and the tax revenue, what you're getting at is exactly that balance for the local community, and communities that have that higher well being index also have stronger economies. So you're right. It's good to point out, and we need to do more to sort of talk about those benefits. It's it's big, it's consequential to the community. Agree, destination marketing and management organizations certainly evolved from their beginnings as marketing boards, so to speak. They've become, as you said, key drivers in driving economic impact, helping generate sales, stimulate investment in creative industries, direct impact on visitor services and so much more. You really been at the forefront of this evolution, as you were alluding to earlier, as you were talking about the municipal accommodation tax. You know, how did tourism Kingston map out this strategy and see that need for change? And what did you do to get there? And you know, what advice would you have for other communities that are earlier in their journey?

 

Megan Knott  18:03

So tourism, Kingston was a bureau underneath economic development, and its inception was in actually, 1998 and so it was noted as of importance to our community, but it was really tied into that larger umbrella of economic development. And certainly, anyone that works in tourism knows that the organization of a tourism bureau becomes very complicated, depending on community and whether that's tied into a chamber or a downtown business improvement area or an economic development or standalone tourism bureau, or maybe it's more regional bureau. I think every community is different. And then you look to say provincially, nationally or even internationally. You know, what are best practices for Kingston? Certainly, I think where the shift came to put tourism on its own form of independence and note of importance was in 2018 and so it was then, when economic development was going through a review in the city that it was noted that, you know what, tourism is equally an important economic driver for our community, as is traditional economic development. And so the two were sort of separated and became very distinct organizations. And from there, then tourism Kingston was really able to flourish and develop and work very closely with the hotel Association and develop a matrix or a platform that really worked for our community. And so there was tourism Kingston, which became that leading destination management organization. And then there became the hotel Association, which was of existence, but really then was be able to architect their own story, to say, You know what, we're more of an advocacy organization, and then tourism Kingston, you're more the development stewards of the brand and all those sectors that fall underneath you. And where we're really different, I think in Kingston is that we work in seven sectors, and not. All DMOS across, you know, Ontario or or such, work in those sectors. But we're fortunate enough to have enough offerings within our community that we do do, we do travel, trade, we do business events, we do sport, we do our, obviously, marketing and communications to steward the brand and talk, you know, locally and externally, about Kingston. We have a Music Office. We have a Film Office. So we really are kind of an all encompassing tourism entity that really talks to locals as well as non locals, about not just what to see and do, but also the driver of all of these other sectors within the community. And what's important to note is we do this under one brand. So we do it as team Kingston. And I think if you talk to any advisor within the tourism space, they will tell you that the secret sauce to the thing is not to have that divisiveness. We are Kingston as a brand, and then falling underneath that, we work in several sectors, but with that call to action, always be in Kingston. And yes, we have a URL that says, visit Kingston. We have a brand that talks to the consumer, but we also have a brand that talks to the residents and a brand that sells Kingston. It's all under Kingston. And I think the last thing I'll note, Andrew is just that tourism made a very conscious decision to involve the hotel Association as the collectors and stewards of the municipal accommodation tax. They also made a very conscious decision to involve the municipality. And I think when, when you have that really dynamic relationship between municipal tourism and hotel Association, these three entities together and only together, create the tourism master plan. So tourism doesn't create a master plan and then tries to sell it to community partners. It's an actual 1/3 of the cost sharing. It's 1/3 of the input to create and connect all of these master plans. Because, quite frankly, you have to look beyond just a visitor experience. Tourism is so much more than that. And so when you're looking to build things and invest in things, or when you're looking to you know, work in different sectors that are just not visitor centric sectors, you have to have that complete Investment Attraction plan, which speaks a lot to municipal regulations. But you also have to have that resident first approach, because your residents are your brand ambassadors, and so if they're not part of that plan, then you're going to have challenges along the way for for residents to even realize, well, what is tourism? You know, they have a center down there, and they push people to that visitor center. But, you know, that's, you know, that's kind of the gist of it. I would just say that as tourism experts in your field, as you continue to try to develop what your roadmap is, certainly, I think it needs to be partnership driven, and it also needs to be a team approach.

 

Andrew Siegwart  23:08

I think that is such sage advice, and I can tell you where we see markets that don't have that collaborative spirit, and what ends up happening is things get slowed down. Our productivity drops because we're not aligned. We're not working together. In many instances, this collaboration just drives things forward. And you and you haven't stopped there. I mean, I was noticing recently that you've you've created a new initiative in partnership with the Ontario restaurant Hotel Motel association. So you're actually creating a Kingston specific Restaurant Group as well. So you're really leaning into that specialization within your market, and I think that's great, because you're going to hear from everyone what their needs are, and that's going to allow you to build a better program and support for sure. Bravo to that. I was really excited to see that it's innovative. Thank you. I don't know that I've seen many other places do that level of sub sectoral work to bolster their local communities. I think it's, it's spot on. Brilliant. Thank you. So, as you've set up quite nicely, the the idea of collaboration matters, and that's what drives real growth. Maybe, could you give us an example or two of some of those sectors that you've collaboratively worked on to sort of grow in advance, and how that is helping visitor economy, as well as local residents in the community Kingston's

 

Megan Knott  24:25

one voice, one brand, is our key to success, and you can see brand alignment between a lot of different community organizations in Kingston. So economic development is the same look feel brand as tours in Kingston, which is the same look feel brand as the Film Office, as the music office, and it just goes down the line. And so whenever, externally, we're going out and talking to, you know, trade partners, or talking to, you know, whether it's fams or whether it's at. Trade shows, or whether it's the marketing piece, or whether it's place based branding. Internally in our community, there's sort of that one voice in one brand. It's not confusing to any one person. It's just Kingston, then the exchange of those opportunities within each of those sectors. So it's just it elevates the experience when you go to, for example, a business event reception, and you've brought in all local food, and so you're really showcasing Kingston, even if it's at an external in an external environment, making sure that there's that team approach at live sporting events, making sure that there's local music brought in through that connection within our offices, so that you know anything from an anthem to the live entertainment for whatever type of event it is. It's just making sure that those things are intertwined. Certainly, I think then that elevates the opportunity for future growth, like for travel trade, for example. So obviously we work in cruise and bus and fit and large group markets, as does any mid sized DMO. But the nuance to that is we're so connected with our film office, which is under our umbrella, that we're doing group tours for film side. So Murdoch Mysteries is a prime example where lots of visitation happens for the places in which Murdoch obviously has filmed before, and so we're working with our tourism providers in the travel trade area to bring large group volume of travel trade into see and do places in Kingston, because films have been produced here. So I think it's just making sure that it's really integrated, and that there's not this start, stop, start, stop notion. I think that it has to be integrated our visitor services always being there to welcome our cruise ship passengers and having, you know, drumming circles, and then our town crier and then our visitor service team handing out brochures, like all of that integration is really, I think, appropriate and important, because then you feel like, you know, you're really doing a service to community and to visitors, because you're leading with that one voice. It's

 

Andrew Siegwart  27:04

creating an experience at every step of the journey. And that's really important, and the more integrated it is, the better. Now on the film side, not only are you leveraging it for tours and working with your tour providers, but you're also actively working with your EC dev colleagues to sort of incentivize and grow more filming to take place in Kingston area as well. Are you not? Yeah,

 

Megan Knott  27:26

for sure, we have several productions happening in 2025 for example. Certainly a flagship backdrop to Kingston is Kingston Penitentiary, that seems to be a production Mecca, as well as our airport, very attractive to production companies. And just the general backdrop of the backdrop of the limestone meets water meets urban, I think production companies often are looking for those particular shots shot lists, and we have it. And so Kingston, notably, is very close to the GTA. And so we're leaning into that, you know, proximity of production hubs, certainly to, I think tax credits will come into play, obviously, in that area of focus, and then at Investment Attraction. So we're currently in the throes of building our first production studio within the city. Oh, amazing. Certainly, looking forward to opening up our first animation studio in the city. So that really has, you know, I think, a great development story in that we have Queen's University that has an animation program. We have Queen's University that has a film program. So there's job creation there, and then, certainly with local workforce that we are able to groom and able to support through crates programs, and being able to elevate that local workforce so that when we have production after production, that we're able to infuse those local productions with local crew and local cast. Because that's kind of the prime outcome of our focus is not just to be a backdrop, it's to be an actual workforce, and from there, being able to offer these anchor production hubs will only further that workforce and further those productions that can actually then place Kingston as an end to end production studio Avenue, and then the result then is just they continue to come. That's

 

Andrew Siegwart  29:19

right, and for and for young people studying in these programs, whether they're, you know, native to Kingston, or whether they're attending school from another market, to think that you could start to lay your roots and foundations for your career in Kingston, in that field that you're studying. I mean, that's that's the magic of of growing a community, isn't it?

 

Megan Knott  29:36

That's it. Yeah, that hands on learning experience is really important, that less we segregate. Okay, I'm going to go to this community for this many years to do and learn this, and then I'm going to leave that community and go and get my practical experience over here. You know, in in Kingston, we want to be offering both local workforce post graduation as well as those really great programs. We. Within our educational institutions.

 

Andrew Siegwart  30:01

Now, I know that you served as a faculty member at St Lawrence College for quite some time. You're gonna have a really good insight into the system and also some of the challenges we're experiencing right now. We are definitely seeing schools pull back on hospitality, culinary tourism programs. There are other programs are at risk. Where do you see things taking shape in the next little while, and what do we need to do to support our learning institutions to keep this momentum going? This

 

Megan Knott  30:29

is where, as a local community, we really have to lean into our sector associations, and we as a local community need to feed our sector associations with actual, real case studies or data from industry, that suggests that in one to three years we'll have challenges in this particular labor market, and in one to five years we're going to have challenges in this particular labor market, and we know that as the college system in Ontario continues to reduce those programs. Is there a direct correlation between the loss of that program and the suspected drop in being able to have skilled trades in those particular areas? And you know, we in tourism, work in all sectors I feel we touch. So whether that's transportation, whether that's culinary, whether that's hospitality, whether that's human

 

Andrew Siegwart  31:25

resources, marketing, finance, yeah, absolutely.

 

Megan Knott  31:28

So I think that what has been done at the college level in the last 30 days has been done. And I think we need to collect ourselves, and we need to lean into our provincial associations such as Tio, our federal associations such as tyac, our Canadian equivalents on the chamber side and on the Ontario side, as well as our economic development partners from a local level, make sure that we're giving enough data that provides conversation Open to government to say, if we actually don't provide this opportunity for this development of the workforce, it's going to suffer in this way, and be able to showcase that, or produce some statistics in that because certainly we culinary, for example, we can get folks into a kitchen, and we can give real, practical experience. I think before you do that, there needs to be some education around what that looks like. And if we're not providing that education, you know, there's certainly, there's some challenges to be had. There's also innovative ways to kind of make sure that we're minimizing that short term impact. Because we know advocacy takes sometimes quite a quite a long time, and so I, you know, I'm not going to be able to give tayo these surveys at hand in a quick matter, and tayo meet with people that they need to meet with, who meet with people, the decision makers and all the things. So it's also really important as a short term gap mechanism. You know, where are the real pressure points going to be, and are there others in our community that are offering those fast track programs or other ways where we can funnel and educate and read, re skill or retool people to work in those areas where we're going to see depletion quite quickly. I know I didn't set out to work in tourism. It naturally, just it sort of was a natural path for me, and I think there's a lot of other people out there, whether you're in a grade school system or a high school system or post secondary tourism doesn't often pop up in your mind. You're working in HR, maybe in a tourism space, or you're working in transportation, maybe in a tourism space. So I think certainly too it's just educating those that are about to, you know, take a path into post secondary education that tourism could be by nature of the associated opportunity where you may end up working in but I think there's a lot to unpack there, as we See that continuation of, certainly the college system, re navigate, retool themselves,

 

Andrew Siegwart  34:04

where your advice is very sage, and it's something we've been thinking a lot about and speaking to different levels of government, if we're not calibrating our outreach and our programs to actual employment need and market need and employment gaps were missing. I see certain occupations and rules getting priorities and others not when there is the same amount of job in fact, more job vacancies. So we have to tell the story a bit differently. I think there's something about looking at productivity in different ways. I've heard a number of people in the last year or so, talk about how they're finding that for youth, it's harder for youth to find jobs, and you're starting to hear that a little more about a youth unemployment. And I have a theory. And the theory is that in light of the labor scarcity, a lot of operators, particularly small businesses, they have just gotten. Used to doing it themselves, and because there's been such volatility, they've taken on so much, and I fear that they're they're more tired and then more exhausted than ever. So we really need to help them open up and and employ and get back to it. But I think this is where our current situation and our current, you know, uncertainty in the broader market is causing employers to hold back a bit. So it feels like we're approaching a bit of a log jam, and we need to do things a little differently. We could talk about that for, you know, so many episodes, but I wanted to get your take coming from that. That's that sphere. And, you know, one of the other things I noticed you I mean, you have a depth of volunteer work, it actually doesn't surprise me that you come forward with a mindset of collaboration, working together, because you spent time working with your local BIA, with you, you know, on the board of the regional Tourism Organization, the Chamber of Commerce, clearly, I can see that that's where you've you've got a lot of links, but, but tell me, why is why have you felt it so important to do that type of volunteer work, and why should other professionals do the same? What benefits does it bring?

 

Megan Knott  36:06

Certainly, there's the relationship building so that when your organization is becomes challenged in some way, you can lean on people that you already have familiarity with, sitting on boards and listening to challenges of other like organizations, gives you the ability to think outside the box and say, Well, if that was a challenge there, I think, you know, we could apply the same sort of thinking and logic to solve our problem over here, and our problems or challenges or opportunities aren't really all that different. No matter what sector you're working in, whether it's a chamber that's challenged with business development, whether it's an economic development, which is, you know, rules, regulations, policies, whether it's DBIA is and you know, this sort of having to be nimble, and seeing my main street programs being challenged, it doesn't really matter. It's that you have that team Kingston approach, and we have that here in Kingston, in that we sit around a table that's economic development chamber, hotel Association, DBIA and tourism, and we're always meeting with the municipality to make sure that that visit, live, work, invest, timeline is always taken into consideration, and that we are very quick when something comes our way into community, to be able to solve that problem, because we're already so connected. And so I just feel it a benefit to be able to be involved in those organizations, even if it's just an ex officio position on most, if not all, of those boards, or the reverse, having ex officio positions on the tourism board. So we have five, for example, in Kingston, from the RTO to municipal. We have our mayor, our CIO, um, two sitting counselors, and then the other organizations listed. You know, even if they can't make all the meetings, it's that they have the meeting notes or you bring them in when they really should be there. To talk about the challenge, I'll give you one example. It's so via rail, for example, we're continuing to be challenged on transportation in Kingston, so our air service didn't resume after the pandemic. We have a 401, corridor that needs to be extended. We have rails that need put more frequent stops, early morning, late evening, arrivals in that Windsor, Toronto, Ottawa, Montreal corridor. In order for us to make enough of an impression and relationship building with VIA Rail, it doesn't just need to be a visitor approach. It needs to be a business approach. It needs to be a municipal approach. And so if we can all get together and approach that as team Kingston to try to solve or advocate for more of that distribution of rail, that makes a perfect example of why we would spend time working with each other, then to be able to quickly draw on the resources to be able to get that conversation happening. You know, really important to think that you need to be connected to your attractions. You need to be attracted connected to your hotels. You need to be connected to your local transportation networks, all of the things that feed tourism. But above that, I think, as a community approach, you also need to be connected in those other ways to be able to deal with these larger, strategic advocacy pieces that each community faces, I think,

 

Andrew Siegwart  39:32

and you're right. It's it's coalition building in and leveraging resources to solve the right problems that are important. Like you raise a really good point about that slow return to air. I mean, you still have a deficit in air service, and you're looking to rail another and others to sort of fill gaps and to give Kingston the market access it it needs and deserves based on the offering. It seems like this is a challenge that many mid sized cities across. US, Ontario, and in fact, Canada, are facing, you know, if you're, if you're one of our big hubs or gateways, you've got the airports in place, you have a lot of that infrastructure, but municipalities like Kingston, you're having to fight harder for them. Are there any other examples of where other infrastructure investments needed that can help destinations like Kingston compete with and get the resources that it

 

Megan Knott  40:23

needs. Other than transportation, again, we're a mid sized city located equally between Ottawa and Toronto. Certainly, other than transportation, it's investment in tourism development, where I think an infusion of funds and mid sized markets like ours would be transformational, and sometimes larger urban centers get impacts from government that make impact, but not transformational impact. They just make a net new impact, somewhere like Kingston or another mid sized community across Ontario, quite frankly, or even even Canada, that infusion of some of the funds that maybe you know just marginally make it an impression or an uptake in ei in an urban setting would make you know, 10 times that amount of impact in a mid sized community. And so whether that's sport hosting grants, whether that's one time, investment, attraction, funding for for example, the things that we've focused on so conference centers, aquatic centers, film studios, animation studios, soccer domes, soccer pitches, all of these things are vitally important to move the sectors that We work in, the seven sectors again, which are not traditional to most DMOS, but to move those certainly impact and we're solving a problem in compression in other communities. So if I just look at film, for example, the ability to offer better tax credits in a non GTA setting makes productions happy because it's a saturated market. So they have more options. They have more options. So to be able to come and film regionally with a proper film studio with proper film credits, it just makes that investment by government that much more impactful and that much more of a net new job creation ei story than it would in a more saturated market. And that's just one example of several. Certainly, I think I, you know, I continue to advocate for sport hosting, investment reform too, on a provincial and a national level, because I think oftentimes we know the impact of sport, whether that's traditional sport or non traditional sport in our community, it elevates the local market, it elevates the provincial sport organization, and it elevates the community at large to be able to have some kind of legacy from sport and that event leaves its community the way that we are able to retain and apply for grants needs to be at the fore of an application of an RFP process. It needs to be a nod from you know that the different stakeholders that yes, if you win the bid, if you win the event, that we will help you co invest in the thing and sport is impactful. I'm a big advocate for sport and very transformational to communities. So I think that, you know, mid sized cities being able to invest in not just infrastructure type amenities, but also event amenities, really important and really transformational.

 

Andrew Siegwart  43:36

Your comments make me think about, I think one of the central challenges we're facing right now in the economy. So with trade wars and trade disputes, everyone is concerned about their product getting to market, whether it's going to be surcharged or tariffs and a tariff, and then whether production is going to leave Canada go to a different market, etc. But when you think about the investment that you're talking about in Kingston, one community out of hundreds in Ontario, you have many different investment pathways that you're working on, that you're investing in, and those investments, by and large, don't leave because they're community based, and they're also based on the talent that's at the local level. We won't lose that talent. We're going to continue to grow that talent. And visitors come from all around the world. So when I think sectorally about the different industries and their risk factor, tourism is a good bet, because we drive a lot at the local level. And so thank you for sort of expanding upon that, because I think it's an important message for many to hear. The investments that you're laying down are not only just growing tourism, they are strengthening your overall community and economy, and I think that's transformational. What advice would you give to emerging tourism leaders who aspire to have a meaningful impact on their community and the industry? So

 

Megan Knott  44:52

I think that what Kingston would advise to emerging communities or communities. That are ready to just kind of review and renew their sense of team approach is, is just that it's to take a team approach and to take an internal review to continue to see impact within your community, and I think the ability to share the impact locally and to illustrate that as well as externally. Illustrate the impact is equally important, and so drawing an example of why residents are the stewards of our brand is equally important as the visitor experience that comes and goes. And you know, community communication plans are equally as important as DMO communication plans to our external environment, and we spend a lot of time in those external plans to try to talk to visitors and have them come and visitors in whatever sector we're working in. But I also think it's important to talk about our residents and help grow that local visitor economy, and make that connection between an investment in a visit is an investment in so much more. It's an investment to maybe renew or relocate. It's an investment to invest. It's an investment to do all the things that we need to see the vitality of our community considered and to grow. It does impact tax dollars, and it does impact conditions of municipal infrastructure, and it does impact very small examples. So you know the real estate it take a real estate agent, for example, the impact to real estate agent means that the real estate agent is selling a community that's vibrant, and tourism allows us to provide vibrant communities, and that real estate agent is able then to transactionally make the sale of someone to buy in in Kingston, for example, because it's such a vibrant, well taken care of community, and that might have started with a visit. I think it's just making sure that you don't lose connectiveness to residents and that community vitality, because we're at a stage now where we want to see major investment in different projects that I just mentioned, but if residents aren't on board in those ways, to invest in those things, because they don't feel like their primary concerns or their primary needs are met, and we come up against this all the Time,

 

Speaker 1  47:36

health care, housing,

 

Megan Knott  47:40

local transportation infrastructure, like roads, we come up with these things, and we say, well, if we just leverage the visitation of the place, we could solve some of these problems. If you can't create a picture or, you know, a common link between these things, then you know where you're at and you know what work you need to do.

 

Andrew Siegwart  47:59

It is such great advice, and it's really important. And if I could distill it down, it's it's be connected to what your community wants and be customer centric. Making an impact isn't about what you choose to do. It's about how open you are to what others need and then how you can deliver it to them. And I think it's clearly evident that you and your team are delivering that in Kingston, and you remind us all in your last comments, if you're not thinking about your strategy as you're trying to make impact, use that as your your North Star, so to speak. So I think that's great, you know? I think the quote for me is from this conversation today is transformational impact Megan, and that's something that you you mentioned, and you've you've really hinted at throughout this entire discussion, and I think that is exactly what you're delivering in the market, and what your team is delivering, and what Kingston is achieving. I just want to thank you for all of your support for Tayo. One of the things that I really appreciate about working with you is that you are not afraid to be honest, and you do not hold back on bringing forward the issues that need to be discussed. And that is another piece of advice that I always give to people is, you know, when you're working with a support organization, they need to know exactly what the challenges are, and I can always trust you to deliver that for us and to be honest with us. So I want to thank you for that. It's been a pleasure to highlight what you're working on. Many years ago, I worked in a destination marketing organization in the Bruce gray Simcoe area. I might as well say it Blue Mountain. I can tell you that since 2018 or one of the markets that I used to benchmark myself against was Kingston. And people might think that's funny because of Prince Edward County or cottage country or other destinations, but the market could see what Kingston was putting down in terms of that, leveraging that place making and bringing those folks together. And I know that many people are paying attention to what you do. I thank you for sharing that and for providing that inspiration for me in the past, and for sharing so much of yourself with our. Listeners

 

Speaker 1  50:00

today. Thank you. Appreciate it was fun. Yeah, we'll talk again soon. Awesome.

 

Mary Anne Ivison  50:05

Thanks for listening to forward motion. This show is created by the tourism industry association of Ontario and is recognized by government as the voice of tourism and produced by everyone at the sound off media company. You.