Michelin Stars and Mega Venues: Shaping Ontario’s Tourism Future

Mary Anne Ivison (Voiceover)  0:01  
This is forward motion discussions about the important topic shaping Ontario's tourism industry. Here's your host, Andrew sigward,

Andrew Siegwart  0:10  
today I'm joined by an icon in Ontario's hospitality landscape, Nick Di Donato, President and CEO of a Liberty Entertainment Group, and the recipient of tayo 2024 Lifetime Achievement Award over more than three decades, Nick has helped redefine Toronto's appeal as a cultural and culinary destination, breathing new life into heritage spaces like Casa Loma, setting new standards in fine dining and leading with vision and purpose. In this conversation, we explore the pulse of the restaurant industry, the power of heritage as experience and his exciting new venture at the brand new Roger stadium, let's dive in. Thanks so much for being with us today, Nick and congratulations again on receiving tayos 2024 Lifetime Achievement Award. When you look back over the last three decades or so in hospitality and tourism, what achievements stand out most to you personally, and why? 

Nick Di Donato  0:58  
Well, I think one of the more recent ones, which was the first mission star in Canada, I think was very significant for for me personally, but I think more so because what it means to Canada, and from from my perspective, I worked very hard at bringing the mission Star to Canada, working with tours in Toronto, tourism Ontario, the mayor City of Toronto, in that I believe that we had an incredible culinary scene, and do have an incredible culinary scene, but we can't just applaud ourselves. We need other people to recognize that, and Michelin is doing that on the world stage for us, I think that's what was really important, because we've always known it's been great food and great hospitality here in Toronto, we just needed the world to really acknowledge that and let the rest of the world know. And so that Michelin star, to me, was what that that set us apart in terms of a tourism destination and recognition for our culinary scene in the city, and being part of that, and having the very first restaurant receiving that Michelin star was was really a pinnacle for me in terms of my career and what, what we've done as in the hospitality

Andrew Siegwart  2:15  
sector. Let me ask you, how has it, how has it influenced the business since, since that time, the idea of being recognized by the world or a global platform. Do you feel that it made a difference? Well,

Nick Di Donato  2:26  
obviously, when, when you receive your Michelin star, it does make a difference in that, you know, there's, there's only 10 Michelin restaurants in Toronto out of 7000 not to say there shouldn't be more, but that's the ones that were, you know, allocated a star, so obviously brings extra business. I think the big challenge is, you know, watch what you wish for, because now that we've gained that star, the biggest challenge is, how do you maintain it? And it's that daily, daily perseverance and attention to detail, because you never know when the inspectors are coming, and it's 365, days, and losing the star would be more detrimental than even winning that star. So to us, it's challenging, it's rewarding, but it makes it that much more difficult. Talk about an accountability model, right? And look, you know, mission was a worldwide brand. People think positive and negative things about it. What I will say is it's, it's true to the core, and that we never know when, when we're being rated and when they're coming to see the restaurant. So we need to be on our toes, and we never know the the results until the day of so, you know, I've been doing this for a very long time, and it's, it's one that I hold a lot of

Andrew Siegwart  3:38  
respect for. How did you get started in this business. Where did it all begin for you? Well, I'm

Nick Di Donato  3:43  
a an engineer by profession. So my dad was in the restaurant business, and his his goal as an immigrant was to have a better life for His children. Always wanted me to be a professional, attend university, and set goals and achievements that he was never able to do. But, you know, in working with my dad's restaurant and throughout other restaurants when I was going to university and through school, to pay for my education, many people in this industry start that way. It's, it's, it's a means going in. So it's a job to get, make some money to get me through until I'm either an actor or, you know, finish my education and so on. For me, it was, yeah, I it was to get me through my education, pay for the education, but more so in doing it. I loved it so much. I was in my blood. So worked as an engineer, but missed the the entertainment business and the hospitality business yearly, and as a result, opened my, my first restaurant as a side thing, and thinking it would only be a side thing, and very quickly it became my, my second career, but my one of passion and one that really drives me, and I think that's what's needed. And in any successful entrepreneurs, it's about the the. Value of what you're doing and appreciation and loving what you do to make yourself successful. Do

Andrew Siegwart  5:06  
you think your father's restaurant or having that kind of influence as a youngster, did that factor into it?

Nick Di Donato  5:11  
Absolutely, because, you know, I saw my dad in terms of working in a restaurant. He he was his own boss. I mean, he only had one front. It was successful, but he was able to the call the shots in his restaurant to make the decisions which would determine whether he was going to be successful or not, and and how successful he would be. And I'll share my story. I worked with Imperial and in pure oil was one of the was the largest corporation in the world when I joined back in the in the 80s, and at one point they had the energy crisis, and they basically said, well, from now on, there's a cap on what you can do and what you can achieve, and 5% per year. To me, that was sort of the straw that broke the camel's back in terms of saying, and now sort of capped at what I can do based on a set number as opposed to what I can actually do and how what I do my

Andrew Siegwart  6:00  
job? Yeah, limits are not something that entrepreneurs enjoy or motivate them. Do they Well, it

Nick Di Donato  6:06  
definitely wasn't motivated, but it motivated me to get into the hospitality business. So did something.

Andrew Siegwart  6:11  
I'm curious. Looking back, can you see where your engineering discipline and training helped you in hospitality? Like do you still use those.

Nick Di Donato  6:20  
It was quarter to my success, really, because, you know, when, when I first started, I used all my engineering skills. You know, that was the first one on a on a desktop at the time in the in the 80s. And first thing I did, I put spreadsheets on my desktop and was able to manage my labor costs and do my role on computer when nobody ever, ever understood that. Or, you know, inventory control, the things we see and take for granted now, like the bankos and the weights and measure systems, I was doing that back in 1980 because I developed my own programs from my engineering background to sort of control, you know, the business. And it was sort of that engineering instinct allowed to do that. But not only that, it was also as a civil engineer. I was doing a lot of layouts, and so I designed my restaurants in terms of the flow of the restaurant, where it should go, so and how how to do that, designing the kitchens. So I was this engineering background that allowed me to understand nuances and how it'll make them

Andrew Siegwart  7:21  
better. I suspect that you probably had a leg up when entertaining plans on how to negotiate with city councils and zoning and all of the kind of planning requirements, right? You probably had a little more knowledge

Nick Di Donato  7:35  
that helped you. Well, you know, I can read my own drawings. Well, I'm not dependent on engineers to sort of say, Here's your restaurant drawings. Go ahead. I'm not sure, a story. You know, when we did the Liberty grand it's 100,000 square foot facility, and it was a heritage site with no no infrastructure whatsoever, so had no heating, air conditioning. And the first plans that came, wow, were okay, we're gonna put a chiller on the roof, and, you know, air condition the whole space. To say, Hold on one second. I'd rather have 20 units on my roof, because should one chiller go down? My business isn't in dire straits, because I cannot serve people without air conditioning or heating. If one of my chill, one of my chillers, of the 20 goes down, it's not going to impact me very much. And what's the likelihood of them all going down. So I designed a sort of the system for the Liberty ran, which was pretty well not what a typical engineer would do, but one that I did because I understood the business of hospitality and how it would impact the business long term.

Andrew Siegwart  8:35  
It just goes to show how many different foundational skill sets we need in this in this business, and how any kind of pathway you can apply to to, you know, level up in this game, in this in this sector, it's very, very it's

Nick Di Donato  8:48  
got to be the most difficult business in the world, because, you know, you're when you think of all the moving parts and components we are actually dealing with, from back of house equipment and Front of House POS systems to now the human factor of the guys in the kitchen and people on the people on the floor, it is a huge, huge operation, even in the smallest restaurant we're

Andrew Siegwart  9:13  
in a moment, I would say, of cautious optimism for Ontario's tourism sector, kind of looking forward. What's your take on the current performance of tourism, particularly in the Toronto market.

Nick Di Donato  9:23  
You're cautiously optimistic. I'm very optimistic, you know, okay, I look at this insane. You know, our neighbors to this belt have actually done us some favors. And I say that because I look at America right now, and most people are not, not happy with America, most of most of the world. So, you know, they've become isolationists. They wanted to worry about themselves, and the rest of the world is saying, Well, you know what? That's the case. We don't want to have anything to do with you, either. And in North America, we become that option for the people in Europe, and, you know, around the world, to say we can experience North America, and we can. Experience it in Canada, you know, our friendly neighbors, the people who we are getting along with. And I think you know that that trend is going to continue. You know, you've seen the numbers of, you know, the American tourism going down. I think you know there is the direct opposite will be for us. Whereas, you know, the Americans are still coming here. We haven't been the bad guys. We haven't started the tariff war or any of that kind of thing. So Americans will still want to come, great value for them. And not only will the Americans come, I think, the rest of the world. So I'm pretty, pretty optimistic things will say and stay the course and continue to grow for us, and

Andrew Siegwart  10:39  
certainly the sort of domestic pride that we're seeing and that desire to explore our own backyard seems to be very strong. Have you have you seen that sort of coming through in any of your businesses? Well,

Nick Di Donato  10:51  
absolutely, we're seeing more people from Canada coming to Toronto. So we are becoming that destination and and you look at Canada as a whole and say, okay, Toronto is that major metropolis. So instead of going to Chicago or New York, when you want to visit a metropolis, and you're coming to Toronto as a Canadian because you want to support Canada, so we're benefiting from that as well. And we're seeing a lot of Canadian tourism in Toronto in the past

Andrew Siegwart  11:16  
little while, he was sort of stepping beyond the here and now, and some of the challenges, or immediate market dynamics we're experiencing looking out, say, five to 10 years. What do you think are some of the macro trends? What are the macro trends that you're watching in a market like Toronto, in terms of where we need to be going to attract visitors and to be the best we can

Nick Di Donato  11:37  
be? I think visitors are looking for a more holistic approach to their travel. They're not looking just for a hotel room, not looking just for a couple of restaurants. They're looking at as an experience as a whole. And, you know, I think Toronto and Ontario provides that we need to work more in that direction. So, you know, I look at, and I use my properties as an example, the castelloma experience when we took over Casa Loma was a heritage site where you would come through and view the building from an architectural perspective and a little bit of the history of Toronto. We've changed that from a heritage site to a heritage site with hospitality and entertainment. So you will find yourself as a tourist coming to Toronto on a Tuesday night, and you'll be sitting in the gardens at Casa Loma with 1000 people around you, watching a rock symphony in the gardens with a castle as a backdrop. And you've been able to see the castle, you've been able to experience a heritage site, but now you're experiencing entertainment, and while you're sitting in the garden was to entertain what we have, world class food being served. So it's a whole experience that we're giving people, and that's more what I think people are looking for when they're traveling abroad.

Andrew Siegwart  12:51  
Yeah. And do you think it comes from a desire for that kind of immersive experience, or is it maybe more oriented toward a business that can help me, like, if you're offering everything in one destination, it makes it easy. Do you think? What do you think the driver is of that? I think

Nick Di Donato  13:06  
it's a combination. People are looking for immersive and to sometimes to an extreme, you know, because everything has to have, you know, a tick tock moment or something. You know that that's fine. We're great with that and one experience that. But let's take it back to real enjoyment of dinner instead of just taking pictures of it. So there's a combination that, in my mind, you need to provide a whole experience. It has to be real and and you see this very often. You know, the the flash in a pan, tick tock experience don't last a long time. So you can provide that moment. You can provide that sort of you know, visual that you know, gets that audience on the phone. But to keep the audience in your venue, you have to deliver on all those points, hospitality, quality of food, the environment of the space, and that, that Tiktok moment, you

Andrew Siegwart  14:03  
know, it's interesting, because I think you could probably apply that, that model to so many different dynamics. And I believe you're absolutely right. That is, that is leading, and it's the forefront of consumers, but you've chosen to do this in a number of times now, in in heritage designated sites, which means that that adds such another layer of complexity. I'm wondering, if you could talk to us about, why do you think these, these heritage properties, you know what? First of all, why are they such powerful tools for tourism? And, of course, what? What have you learned about working within those spaces? And why does it matter? Well, it's

Nick Di Donato  14:37  
a double edged sword in that when you're working with a heritage site, the nuances are challenging. You know what you can do, especially if you have you know the premier heritage sites, what I can do in Castle Loma is very controlled by heritage, and rightfully so. And so heritage, Toronto, Parks and Recreation Canada, they have a right to say. Something what we do with Heritage property. So as a result, it becomes much more complicated. And you know, when we have to put the restaurant in in the cast, or, for example, everybody has an H exhaust system in their kitchen. Well, typically exhaust systems you go straight up and out the roof. Well, you don't do that in a heritage site. We could not exhaust the way we would typically exhaust so, and I'll share this, the exhaust in the kitchen from Casa Loma goes down 20 feet across 150 feet to the perimeter of the the exterior the castle, and exhaust that far away from the castle. Oh, wow. An exhaust system, which would have been, you know, 60,000 to 100,000 was now $300,000 so, you know, being in those facilities, there are sort of challenges, but the converse. Look at the benefit. I you know, we're in a unique venue, and a heritage site is typically unique. Anybody can replicate the pyramids, for example. But nobody's going to replicate the pyramids. To some degree. They're always going to the real pyramid. And the same happens in heritage sites. You know, Castle Loma, at one point, was going to be torn down in 1930 because it was, you know, it considered a little bit of a debacle in terms of a of a structure in a city, a castle in Toronto, now the only iconic castle in the city in and pretty well North America. So there's a destination. People come and having a restaurant there just adds that incremental advantage,

Andrew Siegwart  16:31  
yeah, and then the authenticity of the whole experience. You just can't, you can't replicate that. Now, does your organizations? You take care of all of the food, like the food offerings, a lot of the experiential elements are there, aspects of the grounds that you maintain, and other other like, is it? Is it a full operation for you? Full

Nick Di Donato  16:49  
operation? So it was a little bit of a learning experience, because we never had gardeners before in our hospitality portfolio. But when we took on to Casper, it was the entire property. It's five acres in downtown Toronto with gardens. And, you know, I'm proud of the team we put together, you know, challenging, but we won the top 100 gardens in Canada recently for for caspiloma, thanks to Nicole and her team. And we do have a whole greenhouse. We do have a whole area. I think there's about 25 dedicated people just for gardening. So we do our own flowers. Wow. One thing that's really interesting in what we do at Casco Lomas, we take some of the annual plants that, you know, die and you have to replace every year. Well, we salvage those and keep them going all year round in our greenhouse. So we have the original plants growing for a longer period of time. So we do some interesting things. The beauty of having the gardeners, which is just more recently, with the advent of our risks Michelin restaurants, we take our gardens now, and not just growing flowers for the castle, but we are growing vegetables and herbs for our restaurants. So that's incredible. Fabulous program that we started work with University of Toronto in terms of developing a means of expanding our production in a smaller footprint. And you know, our herbs, for our whether it's from our cocktails to our food, are coming from the from

Andrew Siegwart  18:16  
the cast that's amazing, and coming from your team and from that site talk about, it's a it's a different perspective of farm to table, but it's very cool. Well,

Nick Di Donato  18:25  
it is a little bit of our farm to table and sort of, yeah, where, where the The inspiration comes from. But it's true and it's real. And people can walk when they're walking through caspiloma Now, will they walk through our greenhouses and can see the production we have for our restaurants.

Andrew Siegwart  18:41  
I once heard a stat. It was an American stat, but that garden tourism was on par or greater than gaming in terms of revenues, like it was so popular. I'm wondering, what have you learned? Anything from observing people who come just to experience the gardens? What's that consumer like?

Nick Di Donato  18:58  
Well, you know, I think people just appreciate, in particular in Canada, being able to be outdoors in the summertime. And so the gardens are a pretty critical part of part of the operation there, as I mentioned earlier, you know, Toronto, our castle and the Stimpy orchestra in the gardens, happens two to three times a week. So our outdoor programming is seven days a week right now, between weddings and functions and events, seven nights a week. We have something going on at the on the castle grounds, and that's on the exterior Component. Component of all

Andrew Siegwart  19:33  
I was speaking with Troy young at attractions Ontario A while ago, and one of the things that he shared was, for attractions to be relevant, you always have to add something new, continue to layer, give people a reason to come back and experience something that you've been to or that you've loved. And I think you're such a great example of how you're reinventing an icon and and really getting more experience and dynamism. From the from the site. So

Nick Di Donato  20:01  
bravo. One of my mottos is you need to change and stay the same. So if you want to stay at the very talk, you need to keep on reinventing yourself to make sure that people understand that you are moving forward and changing. So you know, it's never started this plateau that you're there. You achieve the pinnacle and you just rest on your laurels. You need to keep on moving ahead and keep on changing, keep on reinventing,

Andrew Siegwart  20:25  
yet still maintaining your essence, your brand, your the passion that you have. How do you keep the core solid while changing and evolving? Is there a secret recipe?

Nick Di Donato  20:39  
Well, yeah, I try to separate what I do into sort of categories, and one that's really important is the maintaining of what we do. But I leave that to my team. I have a core team is, sort of ensures that here's what we've set our standard to be, and maintain that standard. So we have people in the Director of Operations who continually, you know, review what we're doing, how we're doing it. My role is the the evolution. How do we evolve? What's the next step? So, you know, we try to compartmentalize it that way. I obviously go to restaurants see what we're doing and making sure it's I'm right, but I've always focused on what's the next step. What are we doing? How do we stay ahead of the curve, and how do we be successful

Andrew Siegwart  21:23  
at it? Yeah, it does take an entire team to make that happen. You're absolutely right, and it's fun to have time and space to innovate and to see what's coming. It keeps the juices flowing, doesn't it? Well,

Nick Di Donato  21:35  
that's the fun part of my job. It's just, you know, I joke many times I eat and drink for a living. You know, it's a job, and I travel the world for a living because, you know, you get inspired. And not just travel the world for restaurants. You know, travel the world in terms of experiences and how they work. And, you know, I'll share this. The inspiration for the symphony in the gardens at Casa Loma comes from Verona, and watching the opera in the coliseti and and you know, you're, you're there, you're outside the Coliseum. It's not, we're not in the Coliseum, but it's, it's, it's similar in terms of, it's a beautiful heritage site, and all of a sudden they have concerts and events within, within those, those venues. And brought that back to Toronto and saying, why not have a symphony in Casa Loma where the cast was backdrop.

Andrew Siegwart  22:22  
And you're right, we need to, we need to explore beyond what we know, to find new ideas and to be inspired. And so luckily for us, in the in the tourism and hospitality business, we get to enjoy that as part of our

Nick Di Donato  22:34  
work. I've always found that, you know, we never go out to try to copy and look at what other people are doing. We typically go out and just to be inspired, whether it's just, you know, the culture and how they they're the people are interacting with each other, or whether it's in the retail sector, and what the, you know, the biggest brands in the world are doing in in their stores for design inspiration. So it's, it's never say, I'm going to go and find all the restaurants in the world and check those out and see what they're doing. It's about the whole experience and how those restaurants are integrated into the society and the culture that's there, for sure.

Andrew Siegwart  23:11  
For sure. Yeah, you can really get a read on a culture and a community by seeing what people eat, how they serve it, and the experience. I was in Greece not too long ago, and you get a got a really good sense and flavor of the culture from all of the food experiences. It was a really good country to really well,

Nick Di Donato  23:29  
sure, example. So, you know, in Toronto, and this is the in history, and when we developed our chibo brand, for example, Italian restaurants, typically, you know, when you have a an event, you have free course, a salad, that pasta and a chicken or something of that nature. Or when people are ordering or ordering an appetizer and a main Well, when you go to Italy and you sit around their restaurants, or in the agricultura, or even in my hometown, people never do that. They just, they bring out the added pasta, they put it in the stand for every table, and everybody tries to share everything it was passed around. The pasta is like you have pastas that are on the table. You pass this around as you do the main course. And so we did that at chibo. When we first started doing that, we got a lot of pushback. This is almost 10 years ago, especially in the social events. So instead of calling our sharing man, we called it a social, social menu. And now, when you come to, you know, and I said this to my team, because was challenging to have them understand this, because, you know, people want to have their own salad. They want to have their own have their own chicken. Well, I'm saying what wouldn't, per a person prefer to have a salad, a Bucha, an antipasto and calamari as their appetizer, because they can all share it, and then we can have three types of pastas or three types of mains. And so we, we pushed that social sharing menu, and now that's all people want to do. It's like that social menu and was it wasn't relevant 10 years. Go, and we're we're pushing the cheaper brand,

Andrew Siegwart  25:02  
but that's where sometimes you have to take risks and know how to lead your customer a little bit. And I suspect you like you talked about it. You called it the social menu, which means you must have known that what your customers were craving is social and togetherness, and so you were finding a way to to give them that. Right?

Nick Di Donato  25:19  
No, it's just a name in terms of saying, we changed the name quickly, and people now sort of saying social, yeah, they were having a social event. They were more engaging and willing to try it. And at the beginning, we almost have to say, look, if you don't really like your experience, we'll, we'll, we'll refund you, but we need you to do this experience, and it's worked out beautifully that everybody just does that, and that at the very beginning that was almost hammering away, that we almost have to force people to try it this way.

Andrew Siegwart  25:45  
Yeah, my suspicion is that consumers are looking for a little bit of advice, and they like places to tell them and suggest what to do, and probably we're more open to that than we have been in the past. Would you say that's true, or would you say that they're more discerning? And

Nick Di Donato  26:02  
I think it's true in that, you know, this experiential phenomenon that's been going on the past few years has come to fruition, and people will allow you to guide them through. You know, our tasty menus at the restaurant, for example, the Michelin eight Course Menu, people may have been more leery, I'd say, five or 10 years ago. Now, you know, 50% of our customers are doing that. They want the chef to guide you through, and they're willing to try things they've never tried before. So what

Andrew Siegwart  26:30  
do you think is, is, what are some of the factors that are driving Toronto's, you know, dining scene today, it seems to be as vibrant as ever. What's your what's your take? I

Nick Di Donato  26:39  
think, as vibrant as ever. But, you know, I've seen Toronto grow exponentially. You know, we're the fourth, third or fourth, largest city in North America right now, gaining traction, gain recognition, with the Michelin Guide coming through. What I what I found is that now you're starting to see the the international brands, the ones that are are global, coming into Toronto. And you know, what's really interesting is you watch how some of them react, because Toronto is very different than most other cities, especially the American cities, and they don't understand why people aren't gravitating to their their product. I think, you know, Toronto, we're not just about name recognition, we're about quality and experience and authenticity. And so when you go to our Thai restaurants, many of them are very authentic. When you go to our Greek restaurants or Thai restaurants, you know, that doesn't happen in many other places in the world, as well as it does in Toronto. And so when they come to Toronto and have a brand, it's not authentic, really, because we actually have authentic, quality stuff. You know, you can imagine an olive garden trying to come to Toronto and and be successful. It's pretty challenging. And not to disrespect the Olive Garden, but it's more about the authenticity of the snow and quality of food we haven't tried,

Andrew Siegwart  27:55  
yeah, stiff competition on a number of fronts and and global cuisine, right? So it's really hard to bring any kind of fusion when everything that's here is so good Exactly,

Nick Di Donato  28:06  
there very few concepts come here that we don't already have. Tell me

Andrew Siegwart  28:11  
what are some of the other challenges that your fellow restauranteurs or your business is sort of experiencing right now? In amongst the positives,

Nick Di Donato  28:20  
yeah, the biggest challenge right now, and with all due respect, with our government and so on, is is the minimum wage has gone from, you know, almost doubled in the past five years, which is huge, 100% increase. You haven't seen our our prices go up that, that far. And, you know, with with COVID, and you know, the challenges of delivery and so on, our food costs have gone exponentially. Our biggest our biggest challenge has been costs have gone up 100% across the board in so many places. But we can't just take our menu items and double or triple them. You know, we are slowly moving up. People are understanding, because even when they're shopping for their own groceries, it's expensive, so our prices have gone up, but we're making less than ever before based on those costs. Because we can, I say this to my team all the time, we can only charge a certain level before the customer stops coming, so I'd rather make less, give them great value and have them continue to come, as opposed to pricing ourselves of the market. So sometimes I think that's the biggest challenge, and people deserve to have to have the minimum wage that we're putting in place. One thing the government took away, though, was that when people are making gratuity, there's still the same minimum wage as somebody in the kitchen who's not making any gratuity. And so as an operator, our costs need to be at a certain percentage, and now we can't provide more revenue to people who don't have gratuity and less to the people who are making gratuity. And some servers, you know, particularly in our nightclubs. Yes. I mean, would be happy just on gratuities alone. That was the way it was. Not saying that's what it should be, but what it did provide us was the opportunity to say, okay, got in the dishwashing pit. Shouldn't be making minimum wage. We should be able to pay him more than what we're required to, because we have additional funds. It's becoming more and more challenging to do. Yeah,

Andrew Siegwart  30:20  
yeah. And you want, you want all roles to sort of see that that advancement and benefit, for sure, yeah, that's a that's an interesting perspective on that, for sure. What are you seeing that restauranteurs are trying to do to to counteract that, in terms of driving sales or driving more loyalty, like, what is so in an I guess, what I'm trying to ask is, in a lower margin world. How can restauranteurs continue growing? Try to expand

Nick Di Donato  30:45  
it throughout the whole week? And so we've done that to some degree in some of our properties where, you know, it's the more of a match the mainstream market. Meaning, you know, look Monday and Tuesday. Remember the Tuesdays used to have the the theater special and food special, so we're started doing that more often. So people coming on weekends won't be coming for a special those are coming out for a special night. Our Friday and Saturday entice them come out on earlier weeknights and spread out the revenue a little more, I think. So you're making less, but you're making more income. So at the end, your your your net is

Andrew Siegwart  31:23  
the same, particularly for independent businesses. Do you see that they have the time or the or the the resources to start looking at? You know, 50% of my customers are locals, and then another 50% come from, let's say, other markets or or they visit. So I need to try to figure out how to market to those new customers. Like, would you say restaurant tours are adept at that sort of marketing and building new customers, or are they more operators and they need others to help drive that traffic? Restaurant

Nick Di Donato  31:52  
tours, even in my restaurants, we have multiple restaurants, we're not about marketing and radio ads. We're not about putting ads in the papers on TV. It's just not affordable, not not something that makes sense. I think the best form of advertising is that word of mouth, and so you focus on keeping your customers happy. You know, providing great service, providing great great food at the right price, which a customer can appreciate. So not saying has to be cheap. We are. We're running some of the more expensive restaurants. You know, the blue bovine we have, you know, extraordinary sushi. We fly the Fisher from Japan. Wow, twice a week, the one that comes from Japan. So people will pay a premium, but you know, they have to appreciate that. That's good value too. So even at a premium price, you'll pay more, but it's, it's for premium products. So just self, it's about providing quality service, quality products. And I think in my mind, always has been an incredible environment. I'm very fortunate. I do need to share this. It doesn't know, you know, my my success, obviously, because of my team, but one of the key, one of my key team members, my wife, Nadia, has been our creative director, and she's responsible for mostly everything that goes on that you see and touch in a restaurant, from tableware to the linens to the design of the entire restaurant. And she's won global recognition for the design she's done it Donal, Fonzo, blue blood, done eco. But you know, hats off to her, because that's what sets us apart, I think, to some degree. And I'm very fortunate because she works exclusively for Liberty group. So it's a positive thing for us. But you know, you got to share the fact that it's instrumental, and part of our DNA is that environment is critical to being successful. It

Andrew Siegwart  33:44  
sounds to me that what has been one of the hallmarks of your business is, you know the brand that you want to create. You know the experience that that you're you're cultivating. So staying true to that is is clearly a winning formula. It's

Nick Di Donato  33:58  
it's critical. I mean, people, there's an expectation, certain expectation, and you need to deliver. You know, I believe in hospitality, identify what you set the expectation to be. Because, you know, you can be a fast food diner and there's a certain level of service you're going to get, or fine diner restaurant. You need to understand those and nuances between each and deliver differently. Because obviously, you know, the the server at Don Alfonso or danico has much, much more experience than the server at chibo, for example, much more of a veteran there. So you're, you're going to get a different level of service. But you know, the people at chibo are happy to have a more casual dining experience, or, I'm happy to engage more with with the server. So they have a great, great personality and know, have the understanding of the basics of the service basics, man, people will appreciate

Andrew Siegwart  34:50  
that switching gears, because you have a pretty exciting new initiative that just got some big public attention the last few days. So morning, tell. To us a little bit about what's happening at Downsview and what you're bringing to the table, sort of, well,

Nick Di Donato  35:04  
we've launched Rogers Stadium in Downsview to 55,000 seat concert venue, which is going to be spectacular. You know, it's an initiative taken on by Live Nation, who built it an incredible initiative, and Eric and Wayne, who are both at Live Nation. You know, they're, they're tremendous Canadians who are making a difference to the Toronto scene right now. Because, you know, and I'll share where, where it starts from. So we have concerts like there's a bigger touring scene going on most recently, because that's where the artists are making, making most of their revenue. But here we are in Toronto with, you know, the the Rogers stadium, Rogers Center, I'm sorry, in downtown Toronto, but you know, it's the baseball stadium. And you know how many? There's 80 baseball games in the summertime alone, and there's limited dates available. So think about this. You know they're facing the fact that Cold Play is going on tour, and Oasis going on tour, and they didn't have five days to give Coldplay, which would mean Coldplay would not come to Toronto. So as opposed to just saying, well, we don't have the facilities, they took it upon themselves. They were going to make we're going to create a facility. We're just going to do it because we can't afford, not just from a Live Nation perspective, from a Toronto perspective, on a tour chart, not to have these artists come here so we couldn't be missed. And they just said, we're building a stadium. We're going to build a temp think about this, a 55,000 person stadium for on a three year. It's a temporary stadium. Hopefully will go long, probably six and then eventually become permanent somewhere in Toronto, because there's a need. But they, they, they really went out on a limb and saying, we're going to build us. And not only on a limb in terms of just wanting to do it, but wanting to do it in less than six months. We in January, middle, you know, middle of January, we are starting to dig, you know, the foundations for some of this stadium, and when, typically, that work wouldn't be done because it's a fridge of coal, but the team band, who was a the contractor on site, delivered in an incredible Stadium in look on time, because we did have a very specific date to be finished by how share, from a hospitality perspective, how challenging it was for us, because here we are. We're doing premium hospitality. We're doing all the concessions throughout with our partners at ovg. So our new joint venture is Liberty oak hospitality. So we partner with one of the most experienced stadium providers, concession providers. But there's a nuance even in stadiums in terms of the experience that premium hospitality is critical. So premium concessions, premium restaurants, the American Express lounge, Birkenstock lounge, where those lounges will have quality food, full service, all those things, and the suites, 24 suites will hide that. So we needed to create this premium experience in in less than two weeks, because we were handed over. We were handed over the stadium for our delivery of the kitchens on June 10. Yeah,

Andrew Siegwart  38:19  
tell us. How do you prepare with that short of a window? Well,

Nick Di Donato  38:22  
because, you know, we looked at this back in January and said, Well, if we they deliver us in June 10, and we have to be, you know, providing service by June 30. I mean, that's not even enough time for the health inspections of the the the building inspections and so on. So we devised a plan where we built our all our entire kitchens in containers, shipping containers. So all our kitchens were built in a modular so we have a cold kitchen, the hot kitchen, the dish pit. Imagine all of those, but each one of those has been built in a container, 20 by 40 or 20 by 20 foot container. All the equipment has been installed, all certified, all inspected by the Health Department. So on June 10, we delivered 30 trailers onto the site and dropped them in position, and we were ready to cook in a week. Plug it in and go. It was a plug and go kitchen, which was, like, pretty extraordinary. I just like, at first you're saying how No What are we going to be serving when we only have 20 days, but we are American Express funds, for example, will be able to deliver, will be able to deliver a full service restaurant, just like any restaurant with 250 seats that you go into Toronto on a very short order, but that that was started planning. My team did a phenomenal job. My engineering came in handy again, as we spoke about earlier. But you know, it was a team effort, and I think we devised a brilliant plan that show it came to fruition. We were cooking yesterday for the for the media launch, so worked out beautifully.

Andrew Siegwart  39:52  
That's amazing. Yeah, I was going to say this is a full circle conversation right to the beginning, right the that engineering skill set and the and the mindset. That really helps you devise creative ways to be ready. Now, did you, were there any build partners that you worked with, or any organizations that are the specialized in this space that you could rely on, or was this sort of fully in house endeavor?

Nick Di Donato  40:13  
Well, you know, we have kitchen or trailers Canada, who builds the mobile kitchen, so there's, there's, you know, there's been this up, up and coming, mobile kitchen delivery kind of thing, catering. So we went through them, but very differently, in that we had to design our own kitchens. We had, there's containers. You've got the containers. Here's how we are designing the kitchen. And again, as I said, we come compartmentalize them, because, you know, one container would not service to a 250, seat restaurant. And so we created a cold kitchen, a hot kitchen. The walk in freezers are all in freezer and fridge that you see in any restaurant, everybody out there will understand those while they're inside a cargo container. We open those doors and you go walk into our fridge and freezer. So we designed all of those things very specifically for this advert, for this specific project,

Andrew Siegwart  41:05  
amazing. Now, I would imagine you need a fair amount of people to service that contract or that that project. So how did the recruitment go? How many people are working in the in the new facility? I'll

Nick Di Donato  41:17  
say this again. My hats off to Live Nation, Eric and Wayne Mike Rapino back in LA for approving this whole project. But you need to think about this. This is a stadium which is in Downsview, north of Toronto. You know, it's a community with not lots going on in the area, and perhaps, you know, a lot of youngsters through through the area. We hired in from the food and beverage component, Eight 900 associates and for the whole stadium, 1500 80% of those people are coming from the local community. Wow. We had a huge job fair, which we were able to do. There was a hanger. There was an existing airport. We had an a hangar. We did all our recruitment into hangers, and started that about two months ago, even before the stadium was built, no stadium, no kitchens, were hiring our team. So you know, it was, to me, it was really important. And this is what Live Nation has done in terms of not only providing concerts and entertainment to the city, but providing employment for 1500 people. I think even more importantly, when you look at the kind of people we're hiring, it's, you know, typically it's a part time job because it's a summer, summer only, so three months. And who's that going to be? It's going to be students. Could be youngsters. Can be people who want a part time job to augment their their income because they need more more work in the evenings, right? So we're servicing those that are really in desperate need of a job. But I look at more the youngsters we're supporting. I look at this when we have our Casa Loma big influx of people in the summertime, and we're hiring people who are, you know, just going to university next year, or paying for their tuition or trying, aspiring to be in a different position, but using hospitality as that transitional point. They're learning the value of hard work. They're learning the value of coming to work every day during the summer, doing a good job, getting paid for being able to pay for your education and be able to pay for other things. And you know those youngsters now will be inspired for life, in terms of, this is the direction they move forward, you know, they, to me, that's one of the most important things, is who we're inspiring to do different things. And it's always in the hospitality

Andrew Siegwart  43:30  
sector, for sure, and you know, it's, it's part of your story. So this, this folks who will work with you this summer could be our future club builders, venue owners, you know, restauranteurs, it's, it's a really nice continuation of your legacy, so to speak, and and I would also say, we know that youth unemployment is high, and young people are looking for job opportunities, particularly in summer. So I think it's so great that you, you've been able to bring this online and to provide those opportunities, and also to breathe some new excitement into the Downsview community, which has, you know, it's growing, and they've done some big things with that site. And so I think it's very exciting, lots to be proud of.

Nick Di Donato  44:10  
Well, look, I think we there is the need, obviously, that's why they built it. There's definitely the need for this other stadium because of the concerts and other things that go on, aside from baseball. And they the magnitude of space, you see, you know, Bruce Springsteen is touring around the world, and you know, they would be here in this venue and, and we're not turning them away because of a baseball stadium. But, you know, I think it's important for for Toronto as a whole. It's, it's important for the community in Downsview. And I think no bringing it from the outside of the downtown core makes a lot of sense. Is accessible from the highway. It's accessible from public transit. And you know, the things that city of Toronto and then province and Ontario both stepped up. Yesterday, they announced that transportation from the stadium will be free after concerts, both on TTC and Metro lakes. So it's great for the fans, then get them back on public transit, and I think that's really important, encouraging public transit and people getting on there and providing an opportunity for those 55,000 people to have a safe way home. Thank

Andrew Siegwart  45:13  
you. You've shared a lot with us. We've covered a lot of ground, and I really appreciate your you know, your leadership and your vision and some of the creative ways that you're you're bringing experiences to market, and I know visitors to Ontario and within Toronto certainly do. I'm wondering just a closing question for you. We've been talking a lot with our guests about places in Ontario that are off the beaten path, or things that people might not know about. Do you have a, do you have a place in Ontario that you would recommend people to check out when, if they're looking for someplace new in Ontario to discover

Nick Di Donato  45:47  
this summer? I'm not sure how new this is, because it's relatively new, but many people may know about Prince Edward County. And you know, I'm, I'm a big proponent, and love, love the area, and I think it's, it's one of those wonderful things that Ontarians can do. It's it's very different than the Niagara Falls. And so there's Niagara on the Lake, and that's one experience. Prince Edward County is a very different experience. And so that's why I think it's resonating with people in the Niagara Falls, fantastic regions, beautiful world, you know, a world wonder in the Falls itself, which brings in lots of American visitors, lots of international visitors, and lots of people from all over the world and different community, PC has become one of those places that's bringing more, I think, Ontarians and people from Toronto to visit. So it's a little bit of a of a cultural thing in them, you know, you the people that are there, the people you know, but don't know sort of thing and and so it's a wonderful space. There's lots of green space, quieter environment to some degree, but it's starting to elevate itself in terms of, you know, what's going on. We're currently working on a project out there. And so we are, we're creating, again, something in the very, very high end. I think there's always a need in demand, and PCs starting to get there. So we're developing something called Prince estate, which will be a 10 room estate with facilities and, you know, great pool over the water on Lake in the mountain. So we're bringing that next, next year, I think. And that's another sort of, you know, I think every sort of destination like PST needs a few gems that will draw a whole different sort of person that would want to have the highest level of service. So we're drop, we're going to

Andrew Siegwart  47:35  
provide you that that sounds like that sounds very exciting. I had someone else on our interview a few weeks ago, talk about the food scene in in the county and and so I love what you're bringing, because you're talking about food scene, but you're also talking about unique accommodations. So we know that's a need there. And this is your this is your special sauce, which is you bring multiple things to a market at the same time that that need it. So you know, we're learning from a pro here, everyone so but thank you, Nick. I really appreciate that. That's good recommendation and a good heads up for us on what you're cooking up next. So thanks for the time you spent with us today. And again, congratulations on your recognition of the Lifetime Achievement Award. You know it all it means is that we recognize those who are doing great stuff, and we continue to watch what magic you bring to the market. So thank you very much. It's

Nick Di Donato  48:27  
a real honor to be, you know, recognized by my peers. So thank you so much for the recognition, and hopefully we inspire others people to do great things. As I love Ontario, I love the hospitality, and I think we're best in class, and, you know, and so let's, let's keep moving

Andrew Siegwart  48:42  
forward for sure, and best in class in motivating the industry, lots of great ideas. And, you know, I'm going to make it my mission this summer to come to one of your garden events at Casa Loma, because that sounds just perfect. So thank you.

Nick Di Donato  48:58  
I'll leave on this note. Imagine you are coming from Italy or Chicago, or, you know, Vancouver, and you end up on a Tuesday night or a Monday night in the gardens at the castle. There's no experience like it anywhere in the world. So it's world class, and I think that's sort of important for Toronto. Sort of stand forward and say, We, are a great tourist destination here in Ontario. Thanks

Mary Anne Ivison (Voiceover)  49:25  
for listening to forward motion. This show is created by the tourism industry association of Ontario and is recognized by government as a voice of tourism and produced by everyone at the sound off media company. You.